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Discussion Forum

Overlay Hinge Reveal

bmyyou | Posted in General Discussion on September 10, 2009 08:37am

I would like to use a Salice brand 11/4″ overlay cup hinge for a cabinet, but what is the minimum reveal allowed for this type of hinge? Blum makes a similar product called compact 38C and its reveal is 7/32″ to prevent contact with another door, but I can’t find anything for the Salice hinges.

The vertical stile width of the face frame will be either 1 3/4″ or 2″ and one side will have a hinged door and the other side will have a door with a knob so I don’t want the hinged door to contact the other door when one it is opened. The doors and stile thicknesses will be 3/4″ thick.
Thanks,
Brian

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Replies

  1. rdesigns | Sep 10, 2009 05:07pm | #1

    Make yourself a mock-up out of scrap.

    The reveal can vary with the boring distance and door thickness, so I've always had success by making a mock-up. I'm no professional cabinet maker, so I give myself every advantage I can think of.

  2. User avater
    CapnMac | Sep 10, 2009 09:10pm | #2

    I've always preferred to use a wider stile in the corners to avoid this.  I like an inch for wall cabs, and 2" for bases, the better to clear drawer-to-drawer conflicts.

    With the rest of the stiles being uniform, the long one in the corner is really not noticable.  If you are building a blind corner cabinet to go with that, a 6" stile at the intersection is your friend, too.  Both of those are very handy for where the corner is only "moslty" square and plumb.  A bit extra meat on the stil is also handy if the corner is a bit more than ordinary out-of-level, too.

    Salice is not bad hardware; just used more hettich, häfele, and ameritech.

    Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
  3. User avater
    PeterJ | Sep 10, 2009 10:49pm | #3

    They're listed as "zero protrusion" up to 1 7/16". I'd interpret that to mean they swing within their ovelay.  1/8"(3mm) will most likely work, but why the big overlay if you're going to have tiny reveals?

    Nice hinge, BTW, my favorite compact style hinge.

     

    Everything will be okay in the end.  If it's not okay, it's not the end. 

    1. bmyyou | Sep 11, 2009 02:42am | #4

      Salice told me today that the minimum reveal is 1/4" for these hinges. I am choosing the big overlay of 1 1/4" because the center base stile will be 1 3/4" wide. So if the overlay of one door is 1 1/4", this would leave a 1/4" gap between an adjacent door with a 1/4" overlay of the adjacent knobbed (not hinged) door.
      Is there a more standard method for selecting hinge overlay size and stile width? I want to have a small gap between the base cab doors but need the center stile to support the shelving inside.

      1. User avater
        PeterJ | Sep 11, 2009 10:03am | #5

        Is the ajacent door in the same plane or is this a corner with them at right angles? Drawers above these doors?

        Usually the overlay is the same all around or at least side to side so that door is centered on opening, particularly if there is a drawer above. Don't have to offset drawer front to line up with door that way. So  1/4" reveal on 1 3/4" stile would be 3/4" overlay both sides.

        Maybe I don't have this pictured right or perhaps there's some reason for the varying overlay...a drawing might help. 

        Everything will be okay in the end.  If it's not okay, it's not the end. 

        1. bmyyou | Sep 12, 2009 07:33pm | #6

          Here is the cutout design (face frame drawing) and the widths for each rail and stile. Based on this design, I'm planning to use 3/4" overlay cup hinges for each door to maintain a 1/4" gap between the doors and drawers side-to-side. Is this correct, or is there another method for designing the face frames and overlays? The total cabinet width is 90".
          Sincere thanks for the help with this,
          Brian

          1. User avater
            PeterJ | Sep 12, 2009 09:15pm | #7

            That sounds like a good plan. One other consideration, if either side is up against a wall or other cabinets, the 1/4" reveal may prove to be a problem, if that's the case, I can elaborate. 

            Everything will be okay in the end.  If it's not okay, it's not the end. 

          2. bmyyou | Sep 12, 2009 10:24pm | #10

            Thanks - I wasn't sure if the rails and stiles are generally the same width so this helps.
            This design is for an island so the only concerns I had about contact was between the hinge side of the door and the adjacent door edge, but according to everyone's notes and Blum I only need a 1/4" minimum gap between them to avoid contact whenever the door opens 105 or 110 degrees - correct?Also, I am planning to do something similar for some cabinets that are against a wall so please elaborate on what I could do for them.
            Thanks for all of the help!

          3. migraine | Sep 14, 2009 03:34am | #15

            Blum makes a 7/8" overlay hinge. If cabinet and doors are accurate/square, you can get a good reveal of 1/8"+/-  Using this on a 0mm faceframe plate will kick the door away from the faceframe a little.  A 0mm euro plate will work better

  4. glenaspen | Sep 12, 2009 09:24pm | #8

    I've read this thread 3 times and I'm still a little confused (and I do this for a living). It sounds like you've changed your mind from the first post and decided to go with 3/4 reveals everywhere. As PeterJ mentioned, that would be the correct way to go. Keep all your overlays equal; it's better for the cabinetry and easier on the brain.

    I don't get why you're going with compact 38s, though. The only time I use them is on an angled cabinet, where a standard 120 would hit the angled wall of the cabinet. Looking at your face frame it seems like a pretty straight forward cabinet. I'd use standard 120 hinges (I use Blum primarily so I don't know Salice's terminology). Reveals become a non-issue as you can crowd them to the point of nearly touching.

    Or maybe I still don't totally grasp what you have in mind.

    Edited 9/12/2009 3:04 pm ET by glenaspen



    Edited 9/12/2009 6:29 pm ET by glenaspen

    1. bmyyou | Sep 12, 2009 10:20pm | #9

      You're right, I did change my mind about the overlay because I was planning to use a 1 1/4" overlay hinge on the end stiles (and a 1 1/2" stile to keep the 1/4" reveal). But Paul reminded me that I needed to also have the same overlap of the drawers from right to left, so this would have required the center stiles to be over 2 inches wide. So I resized everything and came up with the design and widths shown in the previous post.
      The face frame design is for a kitchen island that has 4 doors and drawers above; the original face frame is cut from a couple of sheets of plywood, so the plan is to remove these faces and replace with a face frame of soft maple that is put together with pocket screws. This will true the cutout spaces and permit me to install new doors and drawers and hardware.
      Let me know if you need more info - this is a tremendous help for me.
      Thanks

    2. bmyyou | Sep 12, 2009 10:30pm | #11

      with the modified design and using the Blum cup hinges with 3/4" overlay, there will be a 1/4" reveal between the doors and the edge of the cabinet.
      What model hinge are you suggesting instead of the Blum cup hinges?
      Thanks

      1. User avater
        PeterJ | Sep 12, 2009 11:41pm | #12

        To clarify, glenaspen is talking  about a conventional Blum Euro 120 degree hinge, not a compact hinge. The compacts (Salice, Blum, Grass, etc.) were developed expressly for face frame mounting utilizing cup mounting on the doors. It doesn't help that Blum actually named theirs "Compact", the idea is the same for all that make that style.

        Conventional euro hinges have a variety of bases designed for different applications and overlays. There are bases designed for mounting on face frames as well and that is probably what he's referring to.  You could use either one, refer to my earlier post for +'s and -'s.

        The whole thing is probably pretty confusing to the average Joe, but getting your hands on a Blum hinge catalog and perusing for a couple of hours will be enlightening. The drawings show what words can't.

        http://www.blum.com/pdf/BUS/1046_hinge_b/1046_hinges_b.pdf

         

        On your other cabinets against walls; make your stiles a bit wider or your hardware will likely hit the wall before the hinge is fully open, an even bigger issue if you intend to put rollout trays in the bases.

        If you have inside corners, you need bigger reveals or your drawers and doors will be hitting or not opening fully. If there are appliances nearby it can be an even bigger problem. I've seen ranges that had handles projecting out 2 or 3 inches that kept drawers from opening.

        Without writing a litany, if you want to draw a scaled  floorplan, I can point out areas of concern. It's all these secrets that makes cabinetmakers so revered...why we're all rolling in $$, along with other trades.

         And just so nobody gets their panties in a wad, that last sentence is sarcasm! 

        Everything will be okay in the end.  If it's not okay, it's not the end. 

      2. glenaspen | Sep 13, 2009 01:55am | #13

        The hinges I use are full-overlay, 120 degree Clip-ons, and I use a faceplate that has little flanges that hook the front of the face frame. I'd give you their #'s but my hardware supplier corrupts the numbers a little, so you might be confused looking for the exact same hinge. But there's several to choose from and they'd all probably work fine. These hinges and face plates all project a couple inches into the cabinet, which can be a problem with an angled cabinet but would not appear to be a problem with yours. IMO, they're much more user-friendly than compact hinges, with more and easier adjustments. They also accept the clip-on Blumotion thingamajigs, for soft closing, which my customers love. BTW, the overlay of these hinges is 11/16, not 3/4. I'm not familiar with Salice's choices but the one thing I do know: They all will allow a reveal as tight as 1/8" (actually tighter if you wanted), which is standard for minimum reveal doors.PeterJ's advice is spot on re. your cabinet design, so if he's willing to follow through with you, you're in good hands. Personally, I use 3" stiles on the inside corners of my face frames, but even that isn't enough for some of the new ranges people are using. The concern is more for the drawers than the doors. There's nothing quite like the sinking feeling of opening one drawer and having it ram into the handle on the adjacent drawer.

        1. bmyyou | Sep 13, 2009 02:35am | #14

          This is all good advice gents - thanks very much. I'll take a look at the catalog and look at the 120 degree hinges and stile width around appliances as you mentioned.

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