Hello,
A couple of years ago I bought what most people would consider the ugliest house on the block. When I saw the house I fell in love with its potential and looked passed many of the flaws other people saw in the house.
Well now we are a couple of years down the road and I realize I am in over my head. I have spent countless hours considering updates and changes I would like to make, but so far I’ve only accomplished some needed cosmetic changes.
Recent changes with my job have reminded me that selling my house could become a real possibility sooner rather than later.
I love what this house has the potential to become, but with a modest budget and only basic diy skills I am feeling overwhelmed about where to start. What can I reasonably do myself, when do I call in the professionals, what should I start with (neglected maintenance or kitchen update)?
For example I need a new roof–no major leaks or anything, but I also don’t want to get any leaks. I find myself thinking about this endlessly, but can’t decide what to do. The situation is this; the attic space is completely unfinished and peaks at seven feet high with a 30 by 40 footprint, to me this seems like a ton of wasted space.
If I had an endless budget I would completely remove the roof structure, which is 1920’s construction with 3+ layers of asphalt shingles. With the roof structure off, I would add four-foot walls around the perimeter of the roof-line to create more usable space in the attic. Then finish the roofing project by installing factory constructed roof trusses, extra insulation and a new standing-seam roof. Next would be adding a master bed and bath and other usable space in the former attic space.
I know I can do some of this work myself, but when I talk to contractors about this type of project, they mention minimum project costs of $25,000.
The kitchen and bath need updating, but if I do the attic project I would have at least two bedrooms and two bathrooms up there. In that case I would remove the current bath and incorporate that space into the kitchen.
So now I am perplexed, I know kitchens sell houses and that is where I should probably start, but I think it would be silly to renovate the kitchen when I am not sure about what the actual footprint will look like.
I hope that by posting my situation here I can get some solid advice about where to start and what essential things to consider so I can reach some conclusions and get this project moving.
Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this and hope you will have a chance share some of your best advice.
Signed, Trying to keep the dream from becoming a nightmare.
Replies
Just some thoughts -- you'll still need to make the decisions.......
The attic is still an attic, and will always seem like one if the ceiling is only 7 feet tall.
I'm wondering.... the 30 by 40 footprint of the attic -- is that the space that has 7 foot clear, or does it have sloping walls that eventually get up to 7'? (Won't matter much, still claustrophobic.)
If yo do the upstairs/attic rework, you say that you'll kill the first floor bathroom to expand the kitchen. Bad idea, unless there is somewhere else for a first floor half-bath. Your dinner guests don't want to be told to go upstairs to pee.
Three layers on the roof? Not good.
Adding height to existing walls -- good idea in this case, but be sure it's done by someone who knows the pitfalls -- and there are a few. One of which is -- don't plan to be living there while its done.
My two cents, I agree with yesmam. It is a must to have at least one bath on each floor.
If I were you I would forget about the attic, for now (in todays economy) and concentrate on what you need and what would sell the house, which is kitchens and bathrooms, and curb appeal.
That being said first of all insure the houses integrity by putting the money you were thinking of spending for the atttic into the roof. You wont have any thing to remodel if you are fighting roof leaks all the time. The attic can always be renovated, at a later date. Use your skills to accomplish the things you can do while saving money to put toward the bigger projects. While saving the money and doing what you can u can also use the time to plan what you would like to do in the future.
Realize that you can often do alot more than you think in terms of complexity of projects, but can you afford to? Can you afford to spend three weeks doing what a contractor and helper might do in a week? Afford meaning time off work, learning as you go, at times alot of frustration and hardwork that you aren't accustomed to, and what you can always count on is finding the unexpected. Some can afford the total cost of working on there own home and some cant.
I guess, I am saying do what is immediatly needed, then do what you know you need to, then do what you want to.
Webby
Edited 6/7/2009 6:08 pm ET by webby
if it was me... and i was pretty sure it wasn't going o be my house for much longer...
I'd clean up what needs cleaning up.. I'd paint in updated colors... landscape.. update the kitchen with maybe a tile backsplash (cheap to do) and let it become somones elses project... you will never get your money back at this point if you spend a ton just so someone else can have a nice place to live... lose the love and get ready for the sale
p
Hi Riverside34,
So now I am perplexed, I know kitchens sell houses and that is where I should probably start, but I think it would be silly to renovate the kitchen when I am not sure about what the actual footprint will look like.
I hope that by posting my situation here I can get some solid advice about where to start and what essential things to consider so I can reach some conclusions and get this project moving.
Webby and Yesmaam have you in good hands with their recommendations.
Too often "overwhelmed" means too many irons in the fire. Since you are considering a need to sell the home......button up every detail on the home as it is first. That includes yard work, caulking and painting, that little piece of crown you simply haven't yet cut, etc.
Don't start any new projects until what you have is perfectly ready to sell as is.
Ex. A dear friend has about every construction talent that ever existed "except finish". When he spoke of entirely flipping his home I recommended "one" room at the time but he insisted on gutting the entire house and gut it he did.....went for a couple of years or so with no drywall.....lived in the basement. Now it was his house and he was happy but then he got a job offer in another state he couldn't refuse......never put the insulation in, never rewired it, never did anything but put up new drywall in place of the perfectly good he'd ripped out. I'm not being critical of my friend, his house, his choice, his life but it can get the best of you when there seems to be too much to do.
Once the house is ready for the "basic" market, then if you have the desire, budget and time to start a new project such as the kitchen, have at it! Just remember no kitchen remodel in the world will help sell the house if everything else is in disaray; however, if all the other details are near perfect, a home with a less than stellar kitchen will still market.
Pedro the Mule - It's in the details
Raising the walls in the attic four feet is not practical. There are major considerations that you do not seem to be aware of, unless I misread your post. Concentrate on the rest of the house. If you eventually have a plan for the attic other than to capitalize on "wasted" space, then you can deal with it at that time. Consider that in the world there are many tens of thousands of square miles of attic space that are not developed into rooms. There are important reasons for this. Also, if you dedicate the attic to other functions, you will have to spend money to accomplish for what the attic is doing now.
As for roof leaks: Put aside the money to remove all three layers of roofing, do the necessary repairs to the sheathing, and wait. Concentrate on what you want to do. The roof may not leak for another ten years. If you replace it now when it is not leaking and it would last ten years, you are throwing out ten years of service. That is not a good idea.
Replacing the roof will not cure ugliness.
25K for the project you mentioned is probably only the beginning. Be very careful here.
For what you intend to do, 75K might be a better minimum figure to work with. Don't go back to the person who gave you the 25K estimate.
It would be silly to renovate the kitchen if you do not know what the actual footprint will look like.
Kitchens alone do not sell houses. That is real-estate BS. It is certainly not a good plan to commit major funds based on that old saw. Forget it.
Get some experience by doing some small projects yourself. You will have to buy and rent tools and learn some skills. This will give you valuable experience. If you want to hire a contractor to do something, but have no experience in that area; hire a couple of contractors to do some minor jobs for you. This will help you get a feel for how much a contractor will actually cost you. You will also learn how to deal with contractors, at least to some extent. You may be surprised at the results and at the costs.
Before you go into 25-50K projects, try some 2-5K projects.
One thing that might help you is the way I look at some projects.
I look at how a project will be received by others down the road. Like if you sell it.
That keeps me more honest about why I'm doing something.
some project (small ones) I do mostly because I want to do them.
But bigger ones I always ask myself if others would see it the same way.
Eventually I will sell it and I want the buyer to like my decisions.
I can look them in the eye and tell them what I did.
I don't like making excuses for my work or decisions.
If at that point they don't like my work or decisions, then they are the wrong buyer.
But, once you make up your mind that this is the right course of action, you need to stick it out and honor it. A lot of people around me these days don't have the fortitude to stick it out so it is kind of feels like you are alone in this.
My wife is like this. She has an idea, but can not for the life of her stick through it. So i don't involve her to much. It's to overwhelming for her.
A lot of people aren't good at following or leading these days. "There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
Seems to me you're trying to figure out how to eat the whole elephant rather than looking at it one bite at a time. I'd make a list of everything that must be done (repair leaks, etc.), and the things you'd like to do. Then lay them out by priority. Then look at those top priorities by how easy/quick/cheap they are. You should quickly come to a list of where you need to start.
I think you'll find the attic winds up at the bottom of the list, and some important and manageable tasks will wind up at the top.
Pete
Say, why don't you post some pict...oh, I forgot. You can't.
Try to take a practical and rewarding path to renovation.
First: curb appeal starts at the curb. If you want to improve the chances of a house selling, clean up everything leading to the front door. If things are cluttered, ragged looking or otherwise unappealing, then many people won't get out of their car. This is mostly landscape work, but it also means to paint deck rails, paint the door, scrub the front porch, polish the toe kick, fix the mailbox, powerwash the walkway, etc...
Now you have a nice looking walkway greeting you every day. Even if you don't sell, it's a bit of a reward.
On the inside, start with the rooms you spend the most time in. If that's a living room or a den, then paint, trim, rewire, etc... until you like it. If it's clean, fresh and well-organized, someone else might like it as well.
Now you have a nice looking living room to relax in. Trust me: it's nice to have finished spaces to retreat to when your bathroom is gutted to the studs and every meal comes out of a microwave sitting on milk crate....
You'll pick up skills renovating "easy" rooms (bedrooms, living rooms, utility rooms, porches, etc..) that will pay off when you start on more technically demanding rooms (bathroom and kitchen).
Save the major renovation work for later. You want to go into a major renovation with a clear idea and a full head of steam. You don't sound like that right now.
Try this book out - it's a great general purpose guide, and one I wish I had bought about 20 years ago...
http://www.amazon.com/Renovation-Completely-Michael-W-Litchfield/dp/1561585882/ref=ed_oe_h
-t
best advice I can give is to speak with some reputable real estate agents about the current house value, the TRUE cost of the improvements. This includes paying yourself,other trades and all materials, permits, etc.
And most importantly how long will it take and how much time are you taking yourself away from your family.
Then ask what the home would be worth to the average, non-emotional buyer.
Been there done that, and it ruined a marriage over it, the finacial/housing market crash, among other things...
i am assuming it is some type of a cape code design ? building and having design ideas is one thing especially if your trade exsperince and tools as well as time is limited .
have the house appraised first and look at what its worth now in relation to what you paid for it ! keep your whish list for the next one !
if your intent is to sell it fix what needs fixing do the cosmetics for resale based on what a good realtor would tell you . how is the (electric service ,heat , a/c )
wasted attic space ?? is there a nice stairway to the second floor ?
Sounds like analysis paralysis to me. Go for it. You'll figure it out. I'm always biting off more than I can chew when it comes to building. That's how I've been learning for the last 34 years. Everything always gets built and if you pay attention the quality will be there. People will be happy to help you out with information.