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Discussion Forum

Paint a Window w/o Sticking?

rezlab | Posted in General Discussion on February 20, 2008 11:11am

Just installed my new Marvin double-hung wood windows. They are metal-clad on the outside and primed wood (pine?) on the inside. The local sales rep warned me to not let just anybody paint the interior of the windows as some customers have ruined the functionality of the windows by having a inexperienced painter incorrectly apply paint.

The manufacturer’s web site provides little guidance on the painting of these windows – beyond having them professionally painted.

I am planning on painting them myself – and am wondering if anybody has some tips on how to avoid having the windows stick. I am planning on NOT applying paint to the track – and the windows are removable from the frame – so all the usual double-hung tricks such as painting the tops first, etc. really don’t apply.

Any advice appreciated.

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Replies

  1. User avater
    Sphere | Feb 21, 2008 01:03am | #1

    Make a few light pencil marks right where the sash meets the tracks.

    Remove the sash and mask off the area that rides in the tracks using the pencil marks as a guide.

    Paint away happily, remove tape, reinstall.

    Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

    "Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"

  2. PhillGiles | Feb 25, 2008 08:17pm | #2

    With my own windows, I take them out, paint them, let them dry to hard, and, in a few days, apply a coat of wax. On repaints, I sand down to bare and start with a prime, but you have to sand first or they get too thick for the track. I've also tried urethane paint (for white), but it takes longer to dry.

     

    Phill Giles

    The Unionville Woodwright

  3. frenchy | Feb 25, 2008 10:27pm | #3

    rezla 

      When I did mine what I did was to first remove them and then give them a shellac coat..

       Shellac is a wonderful finish either as a first coat or as a finiah coat. The first coat dries so quickly,  15 minutes if you do it right.  Then you can or should give it a lite quick scuffing to remove any nubs or fuzz that was raised.  Use one of those 3M foam sanding pads. 

      Now if you want give it two more coats of shellac (next coat takes 30 minutes to dry and last coat takes an hour to dry..

     Or paint it with whatever you want.. Warning. shellac does not like amonia based window cleaning products.. since there are plenty of non ammonia based products out there that isn't a problem..  and you will always be able to quickly strip off the shellac and apply new coats if it starts to get scruffy..

      Please note Shellac is harder and more durable than other finishes such as polyurethanes and varnish.. etc..

    1. MikeK | Feb 28, 2008 01:39am | #4

      Frenchy,At the risk of getting you started on another endless rant about the universal benefits of shellac....IMHO shellac alone is not a good choice for windows due to its lack of resistance to moisture. Any condensation forming on the window could ruin a shellac finish, no?I have windows with pine interiors. I'm going to put shellac on them as a first coat, then finish over with poly for UV and moisture protection. Best of both worlds.

      1. frenchy | Feb 28, 2008 02:15am | #5

        Mike,

         I understand you viewpoints.  I can even understand your justification.. However I don't have a problem of condensation on my windows.  Modern double pane windows shouldn't have unless either they are leaking or the interior moisture gets too high..

          If you have moisture problems check the humidity. 

         Uh, just for information Shellac has good UV protection about on par with Polyurethane Oh and my "windows" are pine, the grills are maple and my jam extensions are also maple as well as the trim around the windows..

        1. MikeK | Feb 28, 2008 09:36am | #7

          Frenchy,Darn it, now you got me considering shellac for a finish on the windows. You are definitely the high priest of shellac. What product do you clean the window glass with that doesn't hurt the shellac? How many coats of shellac do you put on? Do you use your standard thinned down method or heavier cut? On thing about poly on windows, once it peels you sure got a mess to get it refinished.Mike K
          Aurora, IL

          1. frenchy | Feb 28, 2008 07:59pm | #10

            MikeK

               Sorry about being a shellac tout  <grin> I've just found an underutilized product that has been like a godsend to a guy who is the worlds worst painter.. If the rest of shellac was as bad as it's reputation (false as it turns out) I'd still love shellac..  Simply because I can wind up with adecent looking job quickly and what's not to love about that?

              OK window cleaning,, My wife uses a product called The Works that is ammonia free.  It's by Home Care Labs and she buys it at the grocery store..    I've seen plenty of similar products.  I don't know if Windex sells an ammonia free product but that seems to be the general trend.

               I put on my three coat  over thinned system. I just flood it on and than scuff off the little nubs etc.. that are raised using 220 3M sanding sponges.   Then flood on coat two and 30 minutes later flood on coat three.  While the shellac is soft from the final coat I use my razorblade scraper to remove the shellac from the glass.. Shellac when it dries is really tough to get off.  Do it while it's soft and it zips right off <grin>  

              If later on you decide that polyurethane is cool you can apply it right over the shellac..

        2. Danno | Feb 28, 2008 02:38pm | #8

          From what I understand (wow, opened myself up bigtime there!) poly is dismal as far as UV protection--that;s why it peels on window sills (may also be expansion/contraction due to heating and cooling from sun hitting it).

          I said something about shellac to the guy I work with and he said he hates it because you stick to it in summer. I've had that happen with varnish (especially in high humidity), but haven't noticed it with shellac--am I wrong?

          1. sharpblade | Feb 28, 2008 04:34pm | #9

            Use external poly or varnish.  They have UV blockers and are flexible, so they move with the wood.

            Helmsan is not the best but still works well, i've had some windows done 9 years ago they still look new. Boat varnish is even better.

          2. frenchy | Feb 28, 2008 08:10pm | #12

            sharpblade,

              I used Epiphanes* marine spar varnish on my black walnut timbers and they faded really badly in about 6 years.. However my black walnut floor (done in shellac) exposed to nearly the same amount of sunlite is still nice and dark walnut color..

             True shellac would make a terrible outdoor finish without something to protect it. but I suspect shellacs UV protection is significantly better than spar Varnish..

            *Generally acknowledged the best marine spar Varnish

          3. frenchy | Feb 28, 2008 08:05pm | #11

            Danno,

             I sure agree with you.. I've had other finishes get soft in high humidity but I haven't found any problem with shellac ..

              I will say that shellac straight out of the can or cut with 1 gallon of denatured alcohol does take a really long time to dry especially in high humidity/temp conditions.  Which is maybe what's happened.. My overly thinned approach doesn't seem to have that issue..

            Unlike others I've had some pretty old shellac and when I mix 2 gallons of denatured alcohol with one gallon of shellac I've never had that problem!  Others here and over at Fine Wood Working  Seem to have a lot of issues with what they call old shellac..

  4. User avater
    Matt | Feb 28, 2008 02:37am | #6

    Here is something to think about:  Paint takes much longer to cure than you might think - up to a month, depending on what kind it is...

    1. User avater
      rezlab | Feb 28, 2008 11:10pm | #13

      Matt,I would consider shellac, except the windows are already pre-primed. I am a big fan of shellac - it looks great on my bicycle handlebars too.

      1. User avater
        Matt | Feb 29, 2008 06:32am | #14

        Let's be clear about this.... The guy who brought up the shellac idea wasn't me....   Shellac is great unless any moisture is involved....  Maybe on a first floor ceiling in Arizona.  :-)   No wait a minute - I wouldn't even use it there.... OK - sometimes as a sealer primer before the finish is applied...   Or, it's great if you want a finish that is easily redone on a regular basis. 

        Edited 3/4/2008 7:06 am ET by Matt

        1. User avater
          rezlab | Mar 04, 2008 03:28am | #15

          Thanks Matt,Looks like I will leave the shellac for just treating bicycle handlebar tape.I put on the first coat of good old water based latex paint this weekend - and if I let everything dry correctly I don't think I will have any sticking issues. The wood window rides in a plastic track - I am pretty sure that if I avoid the track I will be fine.

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