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Discussion Forum

paint – flat or satin?

caseyr | Posted in Construction Techniques on April 21, 2007 06:57am

Need to get the interior of my house painted before I put it on the market. The realtor wants everything painted white. I hate white, every cheap apartment I ever rented had everything slathered in white paint. The realtor then had his interior decorator come over and suggest colors ranging from puke green to dingy beige, different color for each room. None of the 12 people I have had look at the those colors like any of them.

The other problem with white, besides my hating it, is that the walls are not in the best of shape. I removed the old luaun paneling and the wall looks like it had the measles. I think a really light color will magnify the imperfections. (I had the color of the facias on the exterior of the house changed from dark brown to light yellow and every imperfection and flaw that was invisible before now stands out in stark relief…)

The additional problem is that this is a 1957 ranch style and almost all of the light comes into the living room from a 8′ slider, and the room is fairly small (1100 sq ft house), so a light color would be beneficial from that standpoint.

The painter who just gave me an estimate (at double the price of an earlier estimate) suggested priming the walls and going with a flat paint. So the real question: What is the preferred type of paint to use in a house for resale? I was planning on satin in the living room and bedrooms and semi-gloss in the kitch and baths. I think flat would be, well, too flat. I wandered through Home Depot recently and see that they now have an “eggshell” type paint intermediate between flat and satin. Have not seen it on a large wall, however.

Any suggestions and opinions appreciated.

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Replies

  1. plantlust | Apr 21, 2007 07:14am | #1

    I personally went w/eggshell finish. Not too shiny & not flat, so you can scrub the walls if needed. Satin is too shiny to me.

    As far as resale goes, I remember reading about a woman who flipped Bungalows & SWORE about a white paint w/a touch of peach or pink in it. She said it was light but not hospital white & added a bit of warmth to the walls.

    Why Germany?  Kindereier & Pantofeln THAT'S why.

    1. DK | Apr 21, 2007 07:21am | #2

      hello there, flat paint will hide more imperfections in the drywall/ the more of a sheen in the paint the more light reflects off of . DAN

    2. sharpblade | Apr 23, 2007 06:58pm | #25

      I haven't read the rest of the replies but will second the suggestion of light peach, pink, mauve (VERY light). Bright enough without the sterile look.  We did our turn of the century NE colonial in these colors and always get compliments from visitors about how easy on the eye.

      1. DanH | Apr 23, 2007 08:42pm | #26

        Since no one's mentioned it:-- All of the above goes out the window if a room is heavily paneled or has other strong colors in "permanently colored" surfaces. Just pick a coordinated color (use a color wheel if you have to) and tend towards a shade or two lighter than may be your taste.-- A wall or maybe two painted in contrasting colors (but not too much darker than the rest) can help to remove the "blah" from an otherwise "blah" room.
        So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin

  2. User avater
    BillHartmann | Apr 21, 2007 07:36am | #3

    BTW

    Gloss ratings are not exact and very from brand to brand.

    So eggshell might be more or less glossy than that companies satin.

    Yes, you want it light. But personally I would aim more for a light beige.

    But, in general eggshell will hide a lot of sins. Flat, flat looks too dead.

    I painted a living room with a fairly light white. And they only wanted one coat. But it was the same color and brand of paint that was originally used 12 years earlier. It opened up into a 2 story entry so I had to continue that one wall.

    Because I was only painting one coat and I had that tall wall which require breaking it up and working some sections at a time from the ladder I was concerned with skips and misses.

    So the next mornign I when to check it first thing in the morning and opened the front door and the sun hit the wall at about 30 degree angle.

    IT LOOKED TERRIBLE and I thought that i would have to repaint the who wall.

    But I look closer and foudn that it was all flaws in the DW. Bulges, dips, and bumps.

    So I quickly closed the door before the HO saw it.

    Checked 2 hours later when the sun was still brightly lighting the room, but at about a 45* angle.

    And it looked like a million dollars.

    .
    .
    A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
  3. DanH | Apr 21, 2007 08:00am | #4

    Eggshell is a common choice for walls. It's kinda midway between flat and satin and has a texture when rolled that helps hide imperfections. You definitely don't want anything too shiny as that will make imperfections more obvious.

    So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
  4. woodguy99 | Apr 21, 2007 01:55pm | #5

    Eggshell is most common for wall paint around here, but I like matte or flat on walls.  I think it looks richer, more "velvety", and I don't wash my walls often.  Maybe if I had kids or big dogs I'd feel differently.

    Plus flat hides imperfections much better, as others have said.  With the glare you get from a single source of sunlight you will have a hard time making the walls look perfect though.  Maybe try not to show the house in the early am, depending on when light comes through that window.

     

     

  5. User avater
    Matt | Apr 21, 2007 02:44pm | #6

    I build new houses so my situation is a little different, but let me give you some info regarding pricing of interior painting:

    Flat white (or off white) is always the least expensive paint job.  Typically a spec house would be painted flat off white with semi-gloss white - white trim.  Ceilings will get flat ceiling white (white-white). Any color or sheen added to that is considered  an extra by the painter so the end customer gets charged for it too (plus a premium). 

    OK, so let's say that the base price is $1.75 a heated sq ft for the above.  In other words  $3500 for a 2000 sq ft house.  

    Extras might be:
    $150 per accent color - like light green dining room and kitchen = $150 extra.
        Medium Beige master bedroom add another $150.
    $300 extra per room for medium to dark color.
    $.70 a sq ft for egg shell (or $1400 for the 2000 sq ft house).

    In spec houses colors are always kept neutral, with perhaps 1, 2, or 3 added room colors that although are not off white, still are fairly understated colors like light green, light gold, light aqua, etc.    Any colors are co-coordinated with floor covering, cabinets, fixtures, adjacent rooms, etc.

    Granted repaints are priced much differently, but I think the same still applies as far as what is considered basic and what is an upgrade.  Obviously painting over any dark colors is gonna cost a bunch extra too.

    Further, painting a kitchen with semi-gloss functionally is a good idea, but I'd bet that my painter would charge $500 extra just for that room and would probably make me agree that he was not responsible for any imperfections in the walls.

    Flat off white is always your best bet for the best looking initial paint job.  That is the reality of it.   It shows surface imperfections less than anything else.

    Let me give you another hint.  You spent several paragraphs telling us how you hated white.  Something that my boss has taught me is that HIS AND MY PERSONAL TASTES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SELLING HOUSES!!!!  Really, your friends opinions don't count either.  If you want to sell the house listen to the people who sell houses.  They want to sell the house just as much as you do.  They know what sells.

  6. Piffin | Apr 21, 2007 02:47pm | #7

    Flat or eggshell hides imperfections better than satin. Satin is my standard for trim, not walls.

    but if trying to sell and the imperfections are getting in the way, get rid of them first. Skim coat or texture to hide them, then paint.

    Light colours make space look larger than it is. White is agood base for the buyer to cover with whatever colour they want later. Colours in a market house never make the sale and they can hurt

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

  7. kate | Apr 21, 2007 04:22pm | #8

    Listen to Matt!

    Good Luck!

    1. DanH | Apr 21, 2007 04:37pm | #9

      No, listen to Gloss!
      So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin

      1. kate | Apr 21, 2007 05:42pm | #10

        Hahaha!

  8. user-209584 | Apr 21, 2007 05:55pm | #11

    Because you are selling I'd suggest an eggshell paint & maybe a  light - med beige paint with white trim. Many of the new houses here are painted that way & I think it gives a person a neutral background that will go with their furnishings without them thinking that they must immediately paint the house so they won't be living in stark white hell.

    Bobbi
  9. PhillGiles | Apr 21, 2007 06:20pm | #12

    We only do satin on the walls, semi-gloss for the doors, and gloss or semi-gloss for the trim.  Seeing them side-by-side, the difference is dramatic for colours, more subtle for white. 

    BUT, the amount of work required is even more dramatic:  if you're not painting over enamel primer (which often requires a "dry-wall" primer first), then you're wasting your time and good paint.  So too if the walls are not washed, filled (or skimmed), and sanded smooth.

     

    Phill Giles

    The Unionville Woodwright

  10. 9ENGEL | Apr 21, 2007 07:36pm | #13

    For color choices for flippers, builders, or someone getting ready to sell, I have a theory.

    If we could go foward in time to after the sale and see what colors the buyer chose to repaint with, then go back in time and paint the house those exact colors, the buyer would still repaint with different colors.

    It has to do with personalization, making the house their own.

    Usually the flippers, etc. I work with choose some off white to med beige, then add some color to a bathroom or other small room. That way the color adds some (insert buzzword indicating an eye-catching detail), but  if the buyer wants to change, buyer figures its a small room and they can easily repaint.

  11. renosteinke | Apr 21, 2007 10:17pm | #14

    I'm not surprised at the realtors' advice- but that doesn't mean I'd take it without question.

    Any car dealer will tell you that white cars have a better resale value than any other color. The reason is fairly simple; no one objects to white ... even those who don't particularly like it! More to the point, todays' "hot" color may be considered 'untouchable' in a few years.
    For example, remember when "avocado" was considered the coolest appliance color? Try to buy one today.

    I don't know what you're starting with. A fresh coat of paint will make anything look better. The agent might have said "white" when he simply meant 'don't fret too much over colors- the new buyers are sure to want something different.' A coat of white will also eliminate any concerns a buyer might have about covering an existing dark color.

    As for the level of gloss ... I suggest that you visit a paint store (even HD will do) and view their samples of the different sheens.
    "Flat" has a few advantages. When fresh, it looks 'whiter' than a gloss. It tends to hide imperfections. It tends to 'pick up' color better from strongly colored things in the room (that is, a room with dark brown carpet will look like the walls are a light tan).
    On the downside, truly flat paints will tend to look dirty when in any color besides white. If there is to be more than a hint of color, at least an eggshell should be used.
    Glossy paints tend to seem a bit brighter, and glossy surfaces are easier to clean.

    I think that pure white would be too sterile, unless there is something strong to offset it ... carpet, dark wood flooring, dramatic tile. There should be a touch of color, perhaps just on one wall of each room.

    I would avoid any strong colors, or elaborate schemes. You have no way of guessing the desires of the customers. "Neutral" is the way to lean.

  12. barsmars | Apr 22, 2007 01:06am | #15

    I recommend a matt "flat" paint. Matt - no sheen - paint is deffinately the best to hide any bumps, dips, or inperfections.

    As for the colour: I would go for an off white. Antique white or vanilla is very nice. I appreciate that you're sick of white but....... you want to sell your house, don't you?

    Stick with the formula that works - Paint it white, it will be alright!

  13. VTNorm | Apr 22, 2007 01:06am | #16

    Stop worrying about it - you're not going to live there.

    Flat white/light colors will hide alot of imperfections. It also creates a clean "canvas" (that's how I pitch it) for the new owner.

    No matter what other color or sheen you choose the new owner is probably going to do something very different anyway.

    -Norm

  14. highfigh | Apr 22, 2007 02:29am | #17

    As stated, flat hides better but satin and eggshell reflect light better. Flat sucks for cleaning certain kinds of dirt but since you're selling it, you don't need to care.

    I haven't heard of a realtor INSISTING on white but they usually say that it should be a neutral color.

    "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
  15. grpphoto | Apr 22, 2007 04:29am | #18

    A satin or gloss paint will magnify the imperfections in the walls that you mentioned. In rooms with walls and ceilings which are in good condition, I usually prefer eggshell paint on the walls, flat paint on the ceilings, and high gloss on trim. Dull it down if the condition of the surface is poor.

    George Patterson, Patterson Handyman Service

  16. nikkiwood | Apr 22, 2007 10:01am | #19

    By definition, white is a "neutral" color.

    I think your realtor is right, since would-be buyers will walk thru and see the white as a "canvas" on which they can paint the color of their dreams. <G>

    I would use a flat paint for walls and ceilings, if only because it will save you time to use a single paint -- no edging, etc.

    ********************************************************
    "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

    John Wooden 1910-

  17. Danno | Apr 22, 2007 03:27pm | #20

    One of my favorite colors that is somewhat neutral is called "antique white"--of course one brand's antique white is different from another's and all I remember is that I got it at Lowe's. Maybe Enterprise or Behr. The color is a very pale cream color--pale yellow with a touch of tan. At any rate, it is warm and goes with many other colors. It was also very reasonably priced. Like everyone else said, flat "sheen" will hide flaws the best.

    1. DanH | Apr 22, 2007 03:47pm | #21

      One has to be a little careful with "antique white", as it can come off looking a little dirty.
      So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin

      1. Danno | Apr 22, 2007 08:31pm | #22

        Point well taken--I'd say that with "bone" or "parchment" and some others that tend towards cooler or grayer or even browner tones, that would be even more of a problem, but the one I used was a very pale, creamy yellow and it never seemed to look "dirty" as some off-whites can. It tends to pick up the tones of colors around it, so a red carpet, for example, made the paint pick up a pink or orange cast, etc.. We painted our living room a whitish tone called, IIRC, "cathedral white" and in some light it looks positively gray. In our case, it really doesn't matter because the carpet is burgundy and a lot of the furniture is black.

    2. caseyr | Apr 23, 2007 06:26am | #23

      Actually, antique white is what the realtor called for and I was somehow picturing a stark white. I picked up a brochure at the paint store (no antique white listed unfortunately) and I was surprised to see the range of colors that are listed under "white". They listed a "linen white" which I would have called a pale yellow and was pretty much in mind with what I had wanted.I am not so sure about white being the universal color. My next door neighbor had his house up for sale (identical floor plan to mine) and I asked about a dozen prospects what colors they preferred and a majority of them said they didn't like white. Of course, no two agreed on what their preferred color was...My house has an open beam ceiling in most of the house. They are 4x6 fir and their natural finish was somewhat less than sparkling after 50 years. The first realtor that visited my place as well as my current realtor's interior decorator insisted that I paint the beams white, along with the ceiling. I said no way and had them sanded and refinished in a clear varnish. Everyone that comes into the house has remarked at how great the beams look. Thus I don't always take "expert" advice that I don't agree with...

      1. Glen91482 | Apr 23, 2007 08:03am | #24

        I would go with a flat but not only because it hides imperfections in a big living room but because it gives big rooms depth.  Having even a eggshell in a big room with a lot of light creats a more inclosed feeling because of the reflection the light gives off the wall.  Go with a flat stay away from yellow, this is a very bad choice for a living room for many reasons.  If you want to go a step ahead of the rest of the market forget about the color thats a personal choice listen to your realator.  Concentrate your efforts on the trim, try using a high quality trim paint from sherwin williams 400 promar in a latex.  Paint any cabinets, stair risers and skirt board in a pro classic oil base paint from sherwin williams( must have experience or a lot of paint thinner).  This is the best trim paint avaiable and it will show great.  Also make sure all the lock sets work and doors are properly sealed when closed, and most importanly they don't stick at all.  When you are about to buy a house the first thing you do is open an close all the doors(including cabinets).

        Glen

         

      2. Rebeccah | Apr 24, 2007 12:54am | #27

        I see you've already discovered what I was going to add to this conversation -- that the range of what is called "white" when naming paint colors includes a lot that is anything but what I would have called white. It really just means any really pale color. The first time I saw Navajo White on a paint chip (a very common wall color for apartments) my immediate response was "Huh?? THAT's not white! That's beige!"Anyway, I'm very fond of warm, non-brown, "white"s. In my house,vI used the Behr color "antique gown" (very pale peach) on the walls, and "moonstone" (even paler, slightly more yellow) on the ceilings, with a "pure white" semigloss trim. The rooms practically glow. I think the wall color is flat, but it might be eggshell. I have an 85+ year old house with lath and plaster walls that have lots of imperfections. There's no point even trying to hide them, but I don't need them accentuated. :-)Rebeccah

        1. DanH | Apr 24, 2007 01:13am | #28

          Of course, something someone should do, before committing to painting an entire house with a given color, is buy a gallon of the paint and paint a couple of walls. The tiny chips don't give you an accurate sense of the color, even if you hold them up to the woodwork, etc. (For me, eg, the color on a wall always seems a bit lighter than the chip color, even though when you actually compare them they're clearly as close as one could hope for. My wife has something of the opposite problem.)
          So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin

          Edited 4/23/2007 6:14 pm by DanH

      3. mrfixitusa | Apr 24, 2007 07:08pm | #31

        I heard a funny line about painting. Comedian steven wright said "It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it".Anyway good luck with your painting project^^^^^^

         

        a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces

  18. Geoffrey | Apr 24, 2007 01:25am | #29

    Casey,

     I was to lazy to read the whole thread, so if this stuff has been mentioned I apologize, But hey, I got a hockey game to go to!!, Remember , you just want to sell the place, not decorate for your own use, If natural light is lacking (you mentioned small sq. footage, w/only one source of natural light) and/or the ceilings haven't been painted in more than 5 yrs. paint them w/ a flat,flat ceiling white, do them all first...paint your walls with a light color (little tint) or off white, or light beige, maybe do one small room in a color (like the bath, as mentioned)...do all the walls in an eggshell finish....if you are doing the trim(you probably should) use a satin finish of the same color or a slightly contrasting color if you want the trim to stand. Don't go to overboard on colors, you just want to show that the home is clean, light, airy and comfortable and would be somthing the buyer will enjoy "putting their own touches on".  Good luck!!

                              Geoff

    P.S. I would paint in the following order, ceilings first, trim second, and walls last....the reason for this order is that it is easier to cut against the trim with wall color, than to cut against the wall with trim color(and have it look good ) IMHO... and where you cut against the ceiling with wall paint, that is easier than the reverse and  you can "cut" down the wall 6-8" so there is less chance of accidentally rolling into the ceiling w/ the wall paint. IMHO! but that's just my opinion....

  19. rpait | Apr 24, 2007 03:46am | #30

    I have been painting with alot of eggshell. I like it.

    Color- Lowes has a color called craft white, very nice alternative to white. Eddie Bauer Home Craftsman Bungalow collection. We are painting our house in that color scheme.

    Wall condition- spend the extra money and have orange peel texture applied to the walls. This will hide wall imperfections, looks cool too.

    If you live close to me I would paint for $1 per square foot for walls and $1 per lin foot for trim. you buy the paint and materials, brushes etc. be done in 2 maybe 3 days depending on size.

    Paint will cost relatively the same regardless of sheen. I dont like flat paint on anything but plaster.

    You should let me install alluminum fascia and soffit as well.

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