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Paint for Radon abatement

pizza | Posted in General Discussion on December 10, 2007 04:01am

Hi. I just performed a Radon test in my basement and the results came back that I need to reduce the radon.

Has anyone heard or used a basement floor/wall paint for Radon abatement called Radonseal? It claims to stop Radon gas from entering the basement. They have a website called Radonseal.com. It also waterproofs at the same time. 

If I take the regular route of installing a radon abatement system with that fan and pipe venting up and out of the house, is that an easy DIY job? My house is pretty simple and straightforward. And “This Old House” had a show about how to do it and it didn’t seem that bad. My state (PA) regs say it can be done by a homeowner (I ordered their info packet about it from the state EPA department) who’s knowleadgeable and very handy.

Thanks everyone!

 


Edited 12/10/2007 9:03 am ET by pizza

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  1. DanH | Dec 10, 2007 08:58pm | #1

    My impression is that most radon entry is through cracks, so paint would do little good unless you also sealed all cracks (and cracks have a way of unsealing themselves).

    If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
    1. User avater
      Matt | Dec 11, 2007 03:27am | #2

      That was my thought too...

  2. User avater
    rjw | Dec 11, 2007 03:47am | #3

    How high was the reading?

    Radon typically enters through (i) the footer tiles and sump crock, (ii) cracks (including hairline cracks), and cold joints in the floor and walls.

    The greater the pressure differential in the house (basements are almost always under negative pressure because of the stack effect) the higher the rate of penetration.

    Remediation can include: sealing the sump crock, installing a skuttle vent into the air return system to reduce pressure differentials, weatherizing the upper levels to reduce the pressure differentials (and save energy doller$) "sealing" cracks, passive remediation and active remediation.

    The best path to pursue for your remediation will depend on the readings (and note that the same house can have very different readings based on weather: a high pressure system can reduce the readings -- rain can increase the pressure of radon into the house, etc) and the type and condition of the house.

    I suspect the radon mitigation paint is nothing more than a dry-lock type paint with a fancy name and price.

    Dry-lock is, in the view of many, a bandaid which will soon come off from hydrostatic pressures under ground.


    May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"

    "We Live"  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search

    And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=

     

    1. pizza | Dec 11, 2007 07:19pm | #10

      The test was performed with a kit from Home Depot. It is a lab that is certified by the EPA in Pennsylvania. The test was a short term test of 96 hours, the house was closed mostly the whole time. The reading was 13 picocuries/L the max they say is 4.

       

      That Radonseal is not classified as a "paint" by the manufacturer. They said it penetrates 4" into the concrete and does something inside the pores and voids microscopically and chemically. And cannot be pushed out by water or hydrostatic pressure.

      Edited 12/11/2007 11:20 am ET by pizza

      1. DanH | Dec 11, 2007 07:34pm | #11

        Doesn't much matter how good that paint is, most of your leakage will be through cracks, up out of a sump pit, etc. If you can paint, you can go around with a caulk gun and caulk all the cracks -- that'll do a lot more good.Sometime this winter I hope to get started on our house. Finished basement, so I'm going to drill approx 1/2" diameter holes around the perimeter of the utility room (which is fairly centrally located), epoxy copper stubs into the holes, and rig a manifold from them to a radon fan. Plus caulk a few visible cracks.
        If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader

    2. pizza | Dec 16, 2007 06:49pm | #16

      How do I seal around the cinder block wall-to floor gap. The floor slab stops short of the wall by about 3/4" in one corner of the basement near the sump pump. The floor slab in the rest of the basement goes right up to the cinderblock wall.

      It always seemed odd to me that that gap is only in that one corner. It goes off in two directions from that corner on both walls for only about 10 ft. and then no gap from there on out througout the basement.

      Then in another area of the basement, for some reason, there is a gravel-filled groove of about 1.5" wide running along the floor slab parallel to the wall. And it is about 6" from the cinderblock. My suspicion is that the builders didn't quite know what they were doing when it came to basement floor/wall techniques (the house was built around 1983-4).

      My question is how do I exactly fill these gaps and grooves and do I want to? Aren't they there for drainage in case I got alot of water in the basement? I don't normally get much water in the basement - only when there are heavy heavy heavy sustained days of rain will i get a small trickle and some very small puddles along one side of the basement. And some of it does go into that gap I mentioned earlier effectively draining it away. So I don't want to completely seal these up. Overall the basement is dry with some occasional dampness every now and then.

      Is there some way of sealing these gaps and grooves from the radon gas but still allowing water to drain in them? I would think not  since what let's water thru will most likely let gas thru.

       Thanks for the help.

      Edited 12/16/2007 10:50 am ET by pizza

      1. User avater
        rjw | Dec 16, 2007 07:43pm | #17

        First, it sounds like that corner has settled significantly -- not unheard of at the sump corner, but an indication something isn't right with the sump setup: such as significant water saturating the soil around the outside of the sump crock and then the dissolved soil ("fines") getting pumped away.I suggest having this checked out.Are there also vertical or step cracks in the walls starting where the slab meets up with the wall?To seal, fill the gap with foam filler "rope" and then caulk over the gap (Assuming you don't have the corner of the slab and footer jacked back into place.)

        May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"

        "We Live"  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search

        And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=

         

        1. pizza | Dec 18, 2007 07:29am | #20

          Whoa. There's no settling that has taken place. Those gaps are man-made ones - they're not due to settling.

          There are no major cracks anywhere in the floor or walls. No jacking necessary there.

          So if I fill those gaps I mentioned earlier with foam rope and caulk wouldn't that prevent any drainage in those times that I get the occasional trickle and puddle? Thereby creating more standing water?

          I should take a picture of it and post it.

          1. DanH | Dec 18, 2007 01:48pm | #22

            It makes no sense to have "drainage" through cracks in the floor -- water can just as easily come in through those cracks. To drain seepage you need to collect it in pipes and either pump it out or arrange for it to flow to daylight by gravity.
            If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader

      2. DanH | Dec 16, 2007 10:47pm | #18

        No, those features aren't for drainage. Just caulk the gaps with foam rope and pourable concrete joint sealer. Mortar larger gaps.
        If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader

        1. pizza | Dec 18, 2007 07:23am | #19

          Those feature are obviously man made ones. What are they for then? I even read and saw a diagram of that in a book that said they were for drainage.

          There are even weep holes drilled into the cinderblock, below the floor slab 's top surface, every few inches or so in that gap indicating they were drilled before the floor slab was poured. Because there's  no way anyone can make those holes after the slab was poured.

           

          Edited 12/17/2007 11:23 pm ET by pizza

          Edited 12/17/2007 11:24 pm ET by pizza

          1. DanH | Dec 18, 2007 01:46pm | #21

            Someone may have intended to install a Beaver-style drainage system. But apparently they didn't.
            If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader

  3. Ken | Dec 11, 2007 04:24am | #4

    If you decide to go the DIY route and are looking for help, I had good luck dealing with the folks at http://www.infiltec.com/

    They've got a good how-to manual and good technical advice.

    ++++++++++++++++++

    "Where will our children find their enjoyment when everything gets itself done by steam? Frederick Law Olmsted, 1850s"

  4. Learner | Dec 11, 2007 05:02am | #5

    What test kit did you use? I've briefly looked into it and most of the test kits seemed to require a year in a non-drafty section of your basement. Did yours take a year? or did you hire someone with a kit to come out and perform a test?

    Best way assuming you do not want to jack hammer your slab and put down the active radon piping, vapour barrier and repour might be to put down a layer of vapour barrier taped and caulked at all penetrations and then pour a thin layer of concrete over top. This assumes your slab does not have a vapour barrier under it. If you do have vb under your slab and the reading are high it might depend on how much gravel you have under your slab 4"? If there is no clean gravel to provide an air path even if you jackhammer and put the active pipe running the length of the slab the fan may not be able to pull the radon from under all areas of the slab.

    In reality all you might have to do is add some ventilation to your basement. Put a few fans around the basement which vent outside and you'd likely mitigate any radon that was building up down there.

    Good luck.

    1. User avater
      rjw | Dec 11, 2007 05:09am | #6

      >>In reality all you might have to do is add some ventilation to your basement. Put a few fans around the basement which vent outside and you'd likely mitigate any radon that was building up down there.That can actually increase the problem by increasing negative pressure (reducing pressure)Plus, it can cause significant heat loss, and poor or negative drafting of any combustion devices (e.g., furnace, boiler, water heater) with potential CO problems.

      May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"

      "We Live"  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search

      And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=

       

      1. Learner | Dec 11, 2007 11:05am | #7

        The active way that the radon mitigation things work is a drain tile pipe under your slab which is connected to a vent stack with a powered fan. This will create negative pressure under the slab and draw air in from the floor assuming there are going to be cracks b/t your slab and the floor itself. You will of course have heat loss but that is always going to be the case with ventilation unless it is hotter outside than in - depending on the basement usage this might not be a problem. I don't think you need a really powerful fan, I can't remember what they recommend but I'd think a bathroom fan on a timer that ran an hour a day should mitigate any radon build up. I don't think the uranium is decaying that quickly within the soil and it will take a while to build up. I think it is heavier than air so you'd want to put your ventilation intake near floor level.All combustion devices should have their own direct vent, shouldn't they?, to prevent exactly what you are suggesting - the non output of CO outside of the house. So if you reduce the pressure in the basement by forcing air out the air will just come back into the furnace room, etc via the direct vent.

        1. DanH | Dec 11, 2007 02:48pm | #8

          Ideally, the under-slab suction scheme has the fan running at a "stall", drawing a vacuum but not moving much air. You still seal cracks in the slab as much as possible so that minimal air leaks through, and the only thing the fan is exhausting is the gasses the come out of the soil.A special fan is required that is designed to run at a stall without exccessive wear.
          If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader

        2. User avater
          rjw | Dec 11, 2007 04:23pm | #9

          >>The active way that the radon mitigation things work is a drain tile pipe under your slab which is connected to a vent stack with a powered fan. This will create negative pressure under the slab and draw air in from the floor assuming there are going to be cracks b/t your slab and the floor itself.In my area, and a few others that I have some knowledge about, active systems added after construction rely on the gravel (hopefully) under the slab, and/or settlement of the soil under the slab. I've never heard of a slab being busted out and drain tiles added. The "after market" active systems around here either use an existing sump and tile system or a 4" hole bored in the slab.>>All combustion devices should have their own direct vent, shouldn't they?In the best of all possible worlds.In my area, direct vent combustion appliances constitute, in my experience, well under 1% of the CA's I inspect.And they are almost always in pre-fab homes.

          May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"

          "We Live"  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search

          And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=

           

          1. User avater
            Matt | Dec 13, 2007 02:58pm | #14

            Bob - Regarding pressure differentials in different parts of the home - if I were building a closed crawlspace house and wanted to install a radon prevention/mitigation system how would that work?  If it had a slab under there, I can see that a tube and fan to pull the gas from under the slab and out (just like a basement) would work fine.  But if the CS floor was only covered with plastic, would the radon mitigation fan and associated pipe just end up creating  a low pressure in the CS that would cause the presents of radon?  Hope I'm being clear...

            Edited 12/13/2007 6:59 am ET by Matt

          2. DanH | Dec 13, 2007 03:00pm | #15

            Put perf pipe under the plastic and fan it. Simplicity itself. In fact, you may not even need to fan it, just use a passive vent to roof height.
            If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader

  5. TJK | Dec 11, 2007 09:17pm | #12

    The paint probably won't help because there are areas you can't see or get to that will allow radon seepage. Install a venting system that pulls a slight vacuum under the slab. That's an approach works most of the time.

  6. User avater
    popawheelie | Dec 11, 2007 09:47pm | #13

    I went through this dilemma a while back. I ordered the kit and have yet to set it up. We are just a bit over 4 so it's not like we are getting a lot of it.

    If you are doing it yourself it is different than if a contractor comes in and does it. If you paint it and it doesn't work you can go to the next level. It's your time.

    But anyone who you pay to fix this is under the gun so to speak. They want to get in and fix it once.

    The power/active venting from under the slab pretty much works every time. So that is what you are going to find contractors doing.

    They pretty much have to guarantee their work. You are paying to make the bad stuff go away.

  7. albertstanley | May 26, 2019 07:27am | #23

    Radon is an odorless, colorless radioactive gas, which is formed by the natural breakdown of uranium. Radon can be found in high concentrations in rock and soil that contains granite, shale, phosphate and uranium, or even fill soil containing industrial waste. Radon can be present in any area, but typically concerns are higher in hilly or mountainous areas and lower in sandy, coastal areas. In the Lakes Region we see 3 out of 5 homes on average with at least a marginal elevation in radon gas levels.

    Radon gas moves through the soil toward the earth's surface where it either safely dissipates in outdoor air or seeps into buildings through cracks and gaps in the building's foundation. Radon can also be introduced into a building or home through the water-supply, particularly if there is a private well.

    Once trapped inside a home, radon can accumulate to the point where it can be harmful to the occupants. Actually, it is the breakdown of radon, into what is referred to as radon decay products, that represents the greatest concern. These radioactive products become attached to airborne particles, which can be inhaled and ultimately cause lung tissue damage and cancer. Smokers are especially prone to the adverse effects of long-term radon exposure.

    If radon is a concern in your home, elevated radon levels are more likely to occur during the winter months when the house is generally in closed-house conditions. The best way to test your home's radon level is by purchasing a special test kit or by hiring a professional to perform the measurement.

    For more information, visit the https://beonhome.com/best-radon-detector/

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