I am looking for paint reviews. I looked at Consumers Reports, but they only test a few brands.
I am considering going with Behr. The commercial paint stores in Central Texas do not give good service unless you do a lot of return business, and don’t do a very good job of matching colors. I’m talking way out of the ball park. Home Depot gives good service and do excellent color matching. Theres always a crowd of small contractors at their counter.
The last time I painted the house, I took some extra siding, painted it and stored it in total darkness.
I prefer to use oil base primer, but am trying Behrs water base #436 over touch up spots.
Seems like deciding between oil or water base primer is a 50/50 proposition. They both have their good points.
I am having a very hard time cleaning the Behr Water Base Primer #436 from your nylon/polyester for all paints. I bought the 100% Nylox brush. it is very hard to clean as well. This is after only 30 minutes. Most of the paint comes out, but the primer just wont come off the outer bristles. A wire brush only partially removes it, and seems to damage them.
It is actually easier to clean oil base primer from the nylon/polyester and the 100% natural black china bristle brushes.
Replies
What are you?
Are you a painter, a chemist, a psychic - what?
I don't ask this to be critical. Indeed, don't tell me your answer. Just tell yourself. Let me explain ...
First off, the person doing the painting really has no business pondering the finer points of paint chemistry. Instead, you need to trust someone, or something.
In the 'trust' department, there are two basic approaches. You can trust some unaccountable, far-off, self-appointed expert ... or you can trust the overall judgement of millions of users by trusting the market.
The Consumer Reports ratings for paint have been roundly criticised by the paint trade, whose collective experience seems somewhat different from the lab tests of CU.
Home Depot is also generally avoided by real contractors for their primary supplies. For example, as an electrical contractor I might use HD (or Lowes) for the odd bit of drywall, but I'm getting my electrical stuff from a dedicated supply house. There are many reasons for this, most of which are not relevant to the DIY ... but the supply house almost always smokes HD on price.
The same dynamic works with the paint supply houses. They simply cannot survive without happy contractors. My experiences with paint houses has been quite the opposite of yours. My usual advice is to go to a real paint supplier, tell him what you're doing, and follow his advice.
Indeed, most of the 'contractors' I find at the box store counters are guys who don't have a real business, with all the requisite licenses and certifications; they turn out to be property managers, handymen, and working men doing a 'side job.' In other words, guys who can't qualify for an account at the paint store.
It's not a simple matter of 'oil' vs. 'water,' and hasn't been for quite some time. Paint just isn't what it used to be. Paint makers expend a lot of effort educating the sales staff, Listen to them. This, btw, contrasts with the box-stores, whose 'training' is a fifteen minute video tape. Trade pros? Yea, right. The last time a box store employee introduced himself as a trade pro, he turned out to be a guy who flunked out early in my 3rd. year of apprenticeship classes.
As for cleaning the brushes .... no surprise there. You'll just have to experiment with things like Goof-Off and paint stripper. Probably the best thing you can do is to spend $90 at Harbor Freight for an 'automotive' parts washer. Fill this with water, add some radiator 'treatment' (to prevent rust), and clean your brushes there. There's just the right amount of pressure and flow from that nozzle for cleaning things.
(Speaking as a DIYer) I've (almost) always used either Benjamin Moore or Sherwin-Williams, and rarely been disappointed. (While, OTOH, the few times I've strayed to other brands disappointment has been the norm.)
I generally use whatever passes for an alkyd primer for exterior work.
And, yes, it can be hard to clean water-based paint from a brush, since water-based paint cures so rapidly when exposed to air. It helps (somewhat) to thoroughly wet the brush (with water) before you start, so paint isn't drawn up the bristles to dry. (Same trick works with the appropriate solvent for oil-based paints.)
Thanks for the reply.
I am hearing Sherwin Williams is good, and have not made up my mind yet. Can you tell me specifically what is wrong w/Behr?
I've maybe used Behr once or twice, but over the years it's been all over the map, from really good to really bad. I have no idea how it is of late, but since it's largely controlled by HD (and knowing HD's target market) it's probably what one would consider "good" (not great/not lousy) quality for a DIYer brand.
There's nothing at all wrong with Behr. I am a professional and I use Behr often. I like it and so do my guys. Seems to cover well and holds up as well as anything else out there. I also use Sherwin Williams and like it just as well. The difference is that I can go in HD, drop off my paint order, shop for other items, pick up my paint and leave. To get paint at SW I first go to HD, get those other items, drive 6 miles to SW, give them ny paint order, stand sround for 30 minutes while they mix it and then leave.
Home Depot is killing SW in my area. I see SW store managers in the HD parking lot soliciting business from shoppers. One of the SW managers I've known for a long time told me he has to do it twice a week. I think the days of stand alone paint stores is drawing to a close. They just can't compete with the convience of the big box stores.
Now, on to your direct question. The key to a great paint job is preparation. Most people want to take short cuts with prep and then later, when the paint fails, blame the paint. Great prep and less then great paint will still give you a good paint job. Poor prep and great paint will give you a lousy paint job. Don't worry so much about brands, go where they take care of you, spend 75% of your paint time on prep and you'll get a great job.
Overrall, Behr seems thinner going on so does not cover as well, and it does not last in place more than about 5 years in this climate, while 8-10 is the norm for SW or BM. Based on my experiences, I am totally shocked that Behr can get such good ratings at CR. It makes me assume that HD or Behr must be making some donations behind the scenes to CR.
As for latex vs oil -
Oil has two distinct advantages for certain locations.
It is waterproof - so I use it exclusively for horizontal exterior surfaces where water can drain off slowly such as window sills, decks, tops of railings, etc.
It is hard when cured - so it makes a better choice for something like kitchen cabinets that can get dinged or need frequent washing.
Latex also has specific advantages...
It is not waterproof - so for siding where moisture can try to move OUT of the building and has caused oil paints to bubble and blister off, latex will allow the moisture to move thru it while retaining its bond on the surface
It flows smoothly - not the case a dozen yeaars ago, but latex chemistry has gotten so much better in the past several years that I prefer to work with it now for most situations
Before you paint, get the bristles wet then shake off as much loose water as you can. Do the same with a roller, except you roll the water off on an already painted surface. The idea is that the painting device is damp, not wet. This dampness will help prolong the paint wetness until the brush/roller is saturated with the paint. Using a dry brush/roller draws some of the moisture out of the paint when you are fist starting out - that is the paint that is so hard to clean off at the end.
In addition, when you are cleaning out your bristle brushes, I like to use a drop of dish soap the help lift off the remaining dried on paint near the top of the bristles. You can use a metal comb to help. As a last step, you can use Mineral Spirts to remove the last stubborn gunk in a brush. This dires out of the brush completely so you can still paint with latex afterwards.
You can even put a small squirt of dish soap on the "scalp" of the brush before starting, to prevent paint from sticking there.
Some balance to those comments
Don't wet the brush with water if you are using oil paint.
Final rinse would be alcohol with a latex or thinner with oil paint
I keep a small squeaze bottle of Dawn or Palmolive in my paint kit always
I agree 100 percent about the preparing the surface.
I used behr and probably would use again, but there were some good posts about lowe's outside paint. The name starts with V and that's all I can remember. I began to use it too, but it's been only a few years.
Benjamin moore always get good rating but the local bm store clerks act too elite, and all the old guys who could give you actual advice are gone.
I considered using Valspar last time. Consumers Report gave it a marginally better report than Behr, but their paint department did not seem to be on the ball so I went to Home Depot. This time Behr is getting a better rating than Valspar. Consumers Report rated a Sherwin Williams paint best, but it is the one that is a primer/finish coat one step paint. I don't know what to think of those kinds of paint. Reminds me of years ago when somebody introduced a one coat paint. It was thick like pudding.
What are these one step paints? Just a primer with pigment added?
As for having to apply 2 coats, that's the easy part. Preparation is everything.
As for Consumers Report, I think they are out of their league on some topics, but don't see anybody else testing all the brands of paint.
Will go check out Sherwin Williams next week.
We've got Benjamin Moore exclusively on this house. We repainted after 18 years, and I expect the current coat to last about that long.
Wake Up Webmaster
Somebody please wake up the webmaster. I am now getting 4 emails for every new response to this subject.