Paint removal from interior brick…help
Wife and kid away for 12 days so I get bright idea to remove paint from brick wall in kitchen. Kitchen was an addition around 1985, long before we bought the house last year. Always wondered why they would paint a brick wall that would be in a kitchen. I mean, even back then interior brick walls must have been in vogue! DId my research: organic stripper and removAll 330 were going to be my chemical weapons of choice. Got going last tuesday night by applying a liberal coating of the organic stripper. Is a gel so adhered to vertical surface well. Now, I bought this stuff cause it was low odour, non-toxic. I mean, its made from lemon extract, how bad could it be? Well, I don’t know where those lemons were grown, Love Canal perhaps, but it wasn’t long before I had my half face respirator on with organic cartridges and was still sky high. My pop in law came over to get something…he took one step inside the door, looked at me, shook his head and said, “Oh, you gotta get some air!” Let the stuff on for 24 hours, had a very interesting day at work on wednesday as I couldn’t wrap my head around anything. Wednesday night got back home and proceeded to wash down walls with TSP and then plain water. Was very disappointed with results but still confident that my ace in the hole (removAll 330) would get any recalcitrant paint blobs. PRoblem was, there was a bit more paint left on the wall than just blobs: lots of paint was left in the pores and cracks in the brick; the paint on the mortar was virtually untouched by the organic stripper; and there was a patch of yellow paint under the beige paint and white primer that looked like it hadn’t been even remotely phased by the stripper. I guessed that it was lead based paint, which worried me. I figured that it was the patch of yellow paint that was the reason why they painted the wall in the first place. I tackled the mortar the old fashioned way: wire brush and scraper. I was still confident…figured I needed to get the line’s share of the paint from the mortar, so the next round of stripper could attach it, and furiously scrubbed and scraped my way down and across the wall. By 1 am I hadn’t made much progress and hit the sack. Thursday I attacked again with removAll 330. This stuff is $11 a can and each can covers about 9 square feet. Well, I left that stuff to work and went off to sleep at my inlaws cause I feared for the 3 of 4 remaing brain cell’s continued viability! Got in the next morning to shower and shave before work and it looked like the removAll was making some progress. Left for work feeling like I had gained the upper hand. Friday night I washed th ewall with TSP and rinsed with water and was even more dissappointed. The removAll had worked on the lead based paint but really couldn’t get at the paint in the pores or in cracks. I scrubbed and, after wandering the aisles of the big box hardware store looking for ideas, scraped and virtually scratched at that ?%$#@*&! paint with a variety of pointed and whirling scrapers and scrubbers. There was still lots of paint in cracks and on the mortar in the area covered by the lead based paint, but the main surface was clean. However, for the areas not covered with the lead based paint, the primer had really soaked into the brick and the removAll ($110 dollars worth for 100 square feet of wall…ouch) couldn’t touch it. I applied what was left of the removAll and the organic stripper on saturday morning, ever the optimist thinking that the next application woud get it and, after 6 or so hours, washed that off…still no luck. So, after about 30 hours of my time and $250 worth of stuff, I am left with a wall that has paint in pores, cracks and on the mortar…and much less brain power, less money, sleep deprivation, a kitchen that looks like a mess, probably lead dust all over the place…and a really crappy looking wall!!! I know that some postings on other forums have warned people that doing this is nuts but then again there are other web sites and postings that mention stripping paint off brick as if it is an every day thing. I just officially threw in the towel a couple of hours ago and then, after a shower, thought that the collective experience and brain trust of this forum might have some ideas. Perhaps this belongs on another forum but, so far, from what I’ve read, you folks have been around the track a few times …but don’t know about some of the other forums, which seem to be infomercials or full of very general answers to specific problems. I heard that sand blasting is tough on the bricks and am not too keen on the expense. Using a pressure washer is out of the question. Anybody have any other ideas on a chemical attack? SOrry for the long post but this is the short version (I didn’t tell you about spraying my Wife’s brand new $300 dollar down coat with a combination of highly concentrated TSP solution, mortar, organic stripper and paint chips as I furiously scrubbed a corner of the wall, unaware that the spray from the brush was flying across the room onto the coat rack, etc. etc. etc!)
Replies
Oh boy!
I think that"sand blasting" is about the only option left for you. I put sand in quotes because there are other mediums other than sand. I would try crushed nut shells as the abrasive. Try it in a location no one will see and if it works? Great!
I'm sure there are others here who would know of other mediums to use.
Good luck and hide the coat until she calms down about the wall.
If this really dates from 1985, there shouldn't be any lead paint involved. It is possible that someone used some old lead paint they had sitting around, but I don't think it was possible to buy any lead paint in 1985. If the idea of lead is stressing you, it might be worth getting a test kit just to set your mind at ease.
Actually, the fact that it is in the kitchen would be an argument to paint it. A good enamel painted surface (maybe an epoxy even) would be easier to clean than a bare brick surface with bare mortar joints (as you are learning, cleaning the mortar joints is a challenge).
I'm sorry I have no ideas on how to solve the problem.
Another day, another tool.
So you got the main surface areas of the brick pretty much cleaned except for occasional pores? The big problem is the mortar joints? And you are obviously dedicated to pursue the job to completion?
Lightly grind out and repoint the mortar joints.
Then wait for any strong times of the common analretentive compulsive attacks and dig away at the paint in the pores one at a time until finished.
Then consider a transparent sealer and enjoy the view.
Sorry for the attempt at humor but you're in so deep now with all you've invested so far that I think this is you're only way out to success.
Hope you make it.
Thanks for the input. I made a general reply to everyone but for some reason the topic got pulled from the "General Discussion" section. It is still in the thread though. And..oh yeah I'm in deep...think of all the good stuff I could have done with that $250 and approx 40 hours of free time without wife and kid...
I had to strip down a painted fire place a few years ago. Its not fun or easy.
Like you I tried organic stripper with out much success. After the first few gallons were polished off I tried a more aggressive chemical stripper. It worked better still not great. You will never get 100% of the paint off and the cracks and pits in brick will hold a little of the paint no matter what you do.
Now I'll tell you what I did if your willing to loose a few more brain cells, and invest the time and money to get it done.
Get a thick chemical, not organic, stripper, some polyethylene drop cloths, a few disposable paint brushes, a "scrub" brush made to with stand paint stripper, a good pair of chemical resistant gloves, a good respirator, and two one gallon metal pails, wear a long sleeve junk sweatshirt and open every window you can.
Pour just enough stripper into one metal bucket to work with in a small area at a time probably 2x2 is best. Paint the stripper on starting at the bottom working up. Do not brush over it once its on, just let it sit there as thick as you an get it to hold. Let it sit for about 30-45 min not much longer and then attack it with the scrub brush and scraper, the other metal can is for the waste that comes off. Go over the entire wall once then go back and start again.
It will not all come off the first time, and possibly the second. It is a really pain to get anything that looks acceptable. It takes a lot of elbow grease. Make sure the kids and wife our going to be out of the house for a while. I'm not really suggesting this, because I have been there and its a pain, but it is what worked for me.
Is this a brick wall or a thin brick veneer applied over some other substrate?
Phil,
This is a horriffic reminder of my childs babysitter's husbands house. He spent months to almost a year of weekends with the Meth chloride, toluene, xylene combo stripping the white oak trim in his bungalow. It ended with a nice mostly clear oak with a sea of white pore flecks. His nutty wife made him repaint. I on the other hand would have been up on charges for pushing my thumbs thru her throat. They are now divorced.
Step away from the bricks and think on this for a bit. I have a painted brick fireplace. I started your move then I gave up and etched the paint with muraitac acid. Then rinsed it with water. Then used thinset and attached some 12 by 12 tavertine marble slabs to the face of it. It looks wonderful and I get constant compliments on it.
Paint on a porous surface is a bad deal. It never comes out and you'll be dissatisfied til you move.
Booch, you've found the secret...
mortgage rates are still at their lowest in years!
AHHH my faith in the collective knowledge of Breaktime is reinforced. Thank you all for your excellent suggestions. I spent most of the day today picking at the mortar with a multi shaped scraper, all the while mumbling to myself, trying to figure out what possessed me to start this. It seemed to work well (I managed to clean up the mortar on half the wall and decided that I am a complete idiot, so yeah, the picking and mumbling seemed to work well). Now if only I had an eternity to finish!!! The pores in the brick are another story. I am going to call around tomorrow to check out the rental shops to see if I can get a rental sand blaster. I am also going to call some of the sand blasting contractors and see if there is a hope that they would be interested in this dinky 100 square foot job...maybe they are really dead in the winter...who knows? I like the idea of walnut shells instead of sand. I will also look for a tester kit for the peel away product. That sounds like a plan. In terms of a full out assault with the mega toxic family of chemicals, that will have to wait until the summer, when we can live outside for awhile. To clear up some of the questions: the house was built in 1912 and renovated in 1985, so the yellow paint is probably very old and could be lead based; I don't want to repaint it even though it is in the kitchen cause it was just beautifully painted and, owing to a week of temporary insanity, I thought it would look better unpainted; I understand that mortgage rates are good but we just bought this house and it is a real looker (aside from the brick wall in the kitchen that is...cheesh, what an eyesore that is). Besides, after a good night of fume induced sleep, I am looking at my wall somewhat philosophically today: every homeowner needs a brick wall project like mine...keeps you humble and, more importantly, causes one to make more than a cursory pain and suffering/benefit analysis before embarking on the next half-baked home reno project. Don't ya think so? Yeah, that's it, it's a project in brick philosophy...none of that abstract stuff for me...that's how I'll explain it ...she'll go for that one...I hope she does....now where am I going to hide that coat...
Cheers all
Phil
Save your brain cells. Jet is right. Sand blasting is definitely the way to go. And it's not as expensive as you think. It's cheaper than what you have already tried. I just sandblasted a brick chimney a couple of weeks ago. I used a fellow workers sandblaster that he said he purchased for under $50. I recommend a full face shield and gloves and plenty of polyethelene to prevent the sand from getting in every nook and cranny of your house because it will. I had sand in my ears, down my pants, and I mean it gets everywhere. But it is a lot easier than the wire brush or the chemicals.
Have you tried fire. In form of torch and wire brush after the paint has soften.
PS. If you do try fire make sure you have a hose handy. A cell phone so you can call the fire department if the hose don't work.
Edited 2/23/2003 6:01:44 PM ET by fredsmart
Phil, There is a product called Peelaway that is a system comprised of a paste style stripper that you spread on with a mud knife, then you bed in a burlap type fabric to the paste. Let sit overnight and it dissolves paint and then sets up and you peel the whole deal off. This is supposed to help pull paint from nooks and cranies. They sell small kits for experimentation. I have never used this system although I researched it for a job. I have seen it used and it is pretty cool. It is expensive although not bad for small areas. They were selling it at Sherwin Williams in Virginia. I have been out of the painting biz for a while but am fairly certain it is still around. Might be able to find it at HD or Lowes. I have sandblasted interior brick with exellent results. I used big tow behind compressor and "Black Beauty" as the medium. BB is really slag from smelting operation. This leaves a really cool soft finish. I am not sure how a small sandblaster would work. ps. Never sandblast exterior brick, it takes the glaze from the brick and leaves bricks totally vulnerable to freeze-thaw spalling. To quote one of my historic preservation professors, " Sandblasting exterior brick is like scrubbing your babies bottom with steel wool". If you do sandblast use a sealer afterwards to prevent brick from "dusting". Good Luck!