Replies

1. 
   Rich_Watkins | Feb 13, 2002 03:47pm | #1

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   I always finish my own fastener holes and skim any glue joints, and caulk everything before someone else paints my work. Some painters are really good about nail holes, others don't even carry a caulk gun. The going back and forth (between the painter and trimmer) part is what I want to avoid.
   I guess the painter could go back to the carpenter after the primer stage and complain about something major, like a big glue joint that failed or major wood movement that caulking won't cure. I would hope that your painter is scuffing the primer and taking care of any minor imperfections before putting on the finish.

1. 
   James_DuHamel | Feb 13, 2002 04:54pm | #2

   *Depends on what my contract says.Most times, I am both trim carpenter AND painter, so I do it all. Other times, if a painter is coming behind me, I only install the trim, and the painter is repsonisble for EVERYTHING else. Then again, if the client wants to paint, I will either fill all the holes, or let them do it. It depends on them, and how much money they want to save. James DuHamel

1. 
   SHGLaw | Feb 13, 2002 05:01pm | #3

   *If you have a good painter, make sure he does it and not the carp. Should be primed before filling and carp's usually don't have the eye for finish detail, as well they shouldn't. That's why they call it painter's work.SHG

1. 
   David_Cass | Feb 13, 2002 05:42pm | #4

   *I heard recently from my helper (who comes from a long line of painters) that what paint don't fill, caulk and putty will. So his viewpoint, which makes sense, is to let painters get a coat on before they caulk and etc.

1. 
   David_Cass | Feb 13, 2002 05:43pm | #5

   *I've been on a couple jobs recently that the painter didn't fill anything he could avoid, nail holes included.

2. 
   The_Tennis_Court_Builder_...on_t | Feb 13, 2002 06:06pm | #6

   *Painter always does all filling. Always. Only hire painters that work this way.near the stream,ajCarpenters cut and nail. One man shows like myself and James do both because we are not subbing it on our small jobs. I sub it on new home construction and only do the mechanicals of late.

3. 
   Rich_Watkins | Feb 13, 2002 08:24pm | #7

   *I'm with David. Sometimes I don't know who's coming in behind me. Although on small projects and case work I finish myself with hvlp equipment. Where are you guys from that leave it to the painters? Around here (north west. pa.) good trimmers don't trust the painters with their quality work. Maybe it's just a colloquial thing. Of course as a matter of practice most 'trim' gets hung prefinished anyway and the carp fills everything and touches up.Rich

4. 
   David_Cass | Feb 13, 2002 09:16pm | #8

   *I'm in Chester County, PA (SE corner of PA).Some painters do the whole job, some do as little as possible.

5. 
   Carl_Shaw | Feb 14, 2002 02:54am | #9

   *Since a significant amount of my work is painting I prefer to fill everything. Not that I wouldn't mind if someone else did it but to be frank, I think I'm better at it than most people I have seen. I would rather spend some time doing it myself than spend the same time cleaning up lumpy wood filler and fat beads of chalk.

6. 
   Rich_Beckman | Feb 14, 2002 03:13am | #10

   *I've followed carpenters that didn't even set the nails, let alone fill the holes!(and no, I don't mean I followed myself!)Rich Beckman

7. 
   Rebildit_ | Feb 14, 2002 07:15am | #11

   *I began my life in the trades working for an old school painting contractor (my uncle), and by old school I mean guys who really cared about the finish product. It was always understood that nail holes and caulking were our responsibility, we did not want a hammer wielding, sawdust covered carpenter slopping some of whatever he had lying around in his toolbox into whatever sized hole/gap was left. Now that I am a contractor (and frequent hammer wielding, sawdust covered carpenter) I insist that my painters (or my clients painters do the same). A quality painter will know at what stage and with what product to fill each particular type of hole/gap, and if he doesn't, find one who does. The painters that I deal with prefer it this way, because it gives them better control over the final appearance and less chance for finger pointing after the job is complete, and that is always a good thing.Just mho.

8. 
   Brian_Smith | Feb 14, 2002 07:21am | #12

   *rich hit the nail on the head...on a condo conversion (production work orientation) that i supervised, carpentry work was over once the nails were set. so, in rich's example, painters would have notified me, carpenter returns to set the nails. then the oversight isn't repeated.no one would have stopped the carpenter from following up on his own work. i personally chose to leave my work ready for paint. technically speaking, woodwork to be painted should be primed prior to caulking.brian

9. 
   nathan_w | Feb 14, 2002 07:27am | #13

   *ROFLMAOTIHTFIAPOMOD!

10. 
    Roger_Dumas | Feb 14, 2002 03:20pm | #14

    *I passed this question by my father who was really an old school carpenter (he's 83 now). He did the trim as well as the painting when he was in business. When I asked him he said, "If you're a good carpenter, why would anything need to be caulked? Why would there be any gaps?" His view is that the carpenter sets teh nails and the painter primes, then fills the nail holes, then finishes. Actually he used to prime his trim before he installed it so that the backside would be sealed as well...

11. 
    Rebildit_ | Feb 14, 2002 04:29pm | #15

    *Roger, I love the idea of priming all the trim prior to installation, in a perfect world I think that would happen most of the time. My world is a long way from perfect, although I do admit to backpriming on occasion, and always when the trim is on the exterior. As for his quote:"If you're a good carpenter, why would anything need to be caulked? Why would there be any gaps?" Let's try to be fair. When remodeling, your ability to adhere trim is frequently left to the whim of whomever the original framer might have been, and here in the Northeast, that sometimes means some guy who died around the turn of the century (19th century) and thought a power tool was a big flat rock grinding flour down by the river. The house he framed has been resettling and readjusting itself ever since, and you have to do the best you can. Never mind the scenarios we run into adding trim or built ins to some of the McMansions that have sprung up in recent years (some of those framers you might wish would go back in time to the 19th century). Anyway I guess my long winded point is caulk when used correctly and not as a crutch for sloppy workmanship definitely has a place on my job site.Bill

12. 
    David_Jones | Feb 14, 2002 05:03pm | #16

    *The simple answer to who does what is -it depends on your agreement with each contractor. I was a painting contractor for about 10 years and now work as a carpenter so I have been on both sides of this fence. I would expect any carpenter to set his nails although my painting tools always included nail sets for the "missed" nail. I would beg all carpenters to leave painting, priming, sanding, caulking, filling nail holes, etc to the PAINTER. The order of these steps is sometimes critical. The level of finish for each step is dependant on the intended final effect. Finally compatibility of materials can be an issue too. Let the painting contractor control all of these steps or you are asking for problems. As a painter I was frequently horrified to see the carpenter had "helped me out" by smearing colored putty over (not in) all the nail holes. This would then dry and needed to be scraped and sanded off. The smeared area would of course not take stain so it would then show up again when we stained the trim.Caulk was another problem. Wood should be primed before caulk is applied (read your caulk tube). This not only allows for a better bond but it also allows for MUCH easier tooling. Even if the wood is primed I would urge carpenters to leave the caulk to the painter. If you are not prepared to tool the caulk with a bucket of water and a wet rag you will only make a mess for someone else to clean up.Finally do not "throw a quick prime coat" on wood (including exterior). Primer should be compatible with the finish coat and you don't know what the finish coat will be when you leave. There is a valid argument for priming exterior wood on both sides before it goes up, but I would rather have no primer than coat of what ever latex primer was on sale at KMart, applied to dry lumber, in direct sun light, with a 3 dollar brush!! Primer also hides things that should get attention before primer touches wood. Did you seal all knots before you primed? Is the wood completely sanded? (it can be very difficult to sand effectively when a latex primer has been applied). Did you prime over that mark from the ball point pen you used when you lost your pencil? These will only bleed through later and everyone will wonder why.

13. 
    The_Tennis_Court_Builder_...on_t | Feb 14, 2002 05:12pm | #17

    *Caulk.... Listen. All painted trim gets caulked along edges where I am from.Carpenters cut and nail.Painters prep, prime, fill and caulk, and finish coat. Final finish is 100% the painters.near the stream,aj

14. 
    Roger_Dumas | Feb 14, 2002 09:06pm | #18

    *Bill, I hear ya... I wasn't trying to slam anybody's work. I just cracked up when my father said that...

15. 
    Rebildit_ | Feb 14, 2002 09:50pm | #19

    *Hey, Roger,isn't it amazing how good everyone remembers they once were!Bill

16. 
    Roger_Dumas | Feb 14, 2002 10:47pm | #20

    *Bill, actually he did incredible work. I've seen lots of carpentry but he was the best I've ever seen in person. There are craftsmen who post to this site and who have their stuff in FHB who I'm sure are as good or better, but he's right up there. When he made that remark, he did it innocently. Working for him for 11 years on many homes he never once had to caulk or putty anything except nail holes. I have to give the guy his due...

17. 
    AJinNZ_ | Feb 15, 2002 02:28am | #21

    *We have pretty simple 'rules' on this.Carpenter builds it, sets the nails, thats it. Painter does all filling,sanding etc. Any obvious 'dings' that I feel fall outside that category I deal with myself, otherwise...........

18. 
    Jeff_J._Buck | Feb 15, 2002 05:25am | #22

    *Rich....here in SW Pa the painter is supposed to do the painters job! I'll fit and sand the heck outta a finish grade piece that I know the painter won't show as much love as I would.....but for simple running trim and such.....I leave the holes......but try to set all my nails and doctor my miters. Jeff

2. 
   nigel_martin | Feb 15, 2002 05:25am | #23

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   With regards to eachs trade, who should take care of final filling of nail holes, touch up any dents, clauk any gaps, final sanding before applying coats of paint? How deep into the painting process can the painter go back to the carpenter with any final fixes?