I’m lookin at a job that involves painting over old, turn of the century calcimine paint. As I’m sure many of you know, it’s like chalk and everything peels off of it. I could use some suggestions how to deal with it. Any primer that actually works on that stuff? I understand even Kilz will peel from it eventually.
Thanks
~ Ted W ~
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Has someone already tried to paint over it?
There are a coupla of ways to do it. The first is not to paint over it but remove as much as you can. The calcimine is chalk & glue, so this way involve scrapping the loose and washing as much off as you can. I would then use a bonding primer and acrylic topcoat
2nd method is a Calcimine Recoater paint. I know that Benjamin Moore has one but have never tried it. Of course you still have to scrape
Either way I would try to wash off as much as possible, especially if someone else hasn't tried to paint it previously
when somebody has already tried and failed, the best solution is new drywall, IMO.Vinegar is a good wash prep. Scrubbing the surface about three times, with rinse wipes between scrubbs. SW has a primer prep for it too.At least he knows what he is facing before he starts - that the powder has to be all gone before thinking of painting over it.I have several BIL painters, including one good one.;)He tells a story of a couple who got an estimate from him to paint their bedrooms upstairs. one look and he knew it was calcimime and explained all the necessary prep and that it was not cheap. They had him still work up a price, then they went with a xxxx cheap bid.Almost exactly one year later, they called him to "'discuss' their ceilings" They started ragging on him about the bad job. It was already flaking and falling away. They had gotten confused, and made the serious mistake of thinking he was the one who did the work, and it was plain to him that no prep had been done at all. Needless to say, they were not able to convince him to 'fix' the other guys mess.
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That's why I asked, the OP..... doesn't say that it has been attempted that I can seeMy grandfather was one of the painters who probably used calcimine. He, my father and uncles had all kind of stories like that about their jobs. <g>
Barry E-Remodeler
Maybe hair of the dog? Can you get more calcimine paint?
I thoroughly researched my options when faced with this. If it were only calcimine and the plaster walls weren't as textured, i'd have scraped and washed the calcimine back to the plaster surface. However, someone flubbed by painting latex over it, and with the textured surface, it was just too difficult to scrape what hadn't already peeled, so i skinned it with another layer of DW. Thank goddess that was the only room in the house like that.
There are oil-based paints that are supposed to penetrate the chalk and bind it all together, but no one i talked to knew anything about it. Maybe that's changed in the last five years. BTW, you can't wallpaper over it or it'll bubble the paper.
I have to call the customer and get more info. I haven't looked close at it, just know the room has that old woodwork on the ceiling, like 2 faux beams going each direction to divide the ceiling into 9 squares, that I know there's a name for it but don't recall what it is, sure would have saved me a lot of typing just now, if I did. The calcimine paint is on the ceiling and walls, which are also divied up with woodwork.
what I do know is they removed old 9120's wallpaper from the wall, but I don't remember what the ceiling was, just that they say it's calcimine paint.
I was hoping somebody would suggest using thinned down Bin primer to penetrate and bond the calcimine. The Benjamin Moore product others have referred to might be something similar.
I really, really, really don't want to scrub the calcimine paint off the ceiling, and I doubt the customer will go for drywall in any form, but I might suggest it anyway. ~ Ted W ~
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How'd you get a coffered ceiling broken into 9 panels with 2 beams?
If that's the only difficult area you're dealing with then might be best to bite the bullet and just do the prep work needed.
'sure, sure, that's easy for you to say'
Coffered! Thanks ;)
How'd you get a coffered ceiling broken into 9 panels with 2 beams?
2 beams in each direction.
Durndest thing is the plaster is sanded, which they want skimmed smooth in the end. Also, I'll be stripping and refinishing the woodwork. I'm really for veneering it with 1/4" dw, but I get the impression they're pretty much opposed to drywall in pricipal. On the other hand, cost of labor has a way of changing one's perspective. Still, I want to be able to offer all the options.
I'll talk call them tonight and get the details about the current condition of the ceiling. ~ Ted W ~
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I believe the BM calcimine recoater I talked about is oil based, I have also known painters who used Emulsa-Bond full strength..not added to paint. Emulsa-Bond's website says that is acceptable for very chalky surfaces...the disclaimer is that it is formulated for exterior and has a mildewcide...the painter claimed it worked but I haven't confirmed it
Barry E-Remodeler
If the clients are opposed to DW, they still may go for a field of nicely veneered Ply. You could just add another layer of trim around the panel to hold it it. Prefinish the panels and you'd be done in a small fraction of the time of stripping and painting. If i ever encounter it again, though, i'm trying McDesign's method first.
coffered is the name of that ceiling style.Even with a special primer, you need to remove as much calcimime as possible. it can also make a skim coat of mud over it fail.It is just a cheap chaulk suspended in water basically. sed more often on ceilings than on walls. I think there were some that used milk or egg whites to add to make it more durable on walls so it would not rub off.But that powder really interferes with bonding of anything over it. Some of the places here must have had 12-15 coats of the old stuff, so it may be easier to deal with when it was only a couple coats.
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A couple ways we've dealt with it; still fine after a decade and a half. First way was two good coats of original oil-based Kilz. Works, but 3 gallons per room was smelly. Then, rolled on Hy-Bond plaster-bonding compound. Good, but $ and clogged the roller.
Now, I mix concrete-bonding stuff from Home Depot half-and-half with Elmers glue, and thin to where I can spray with a cheap Wagner airless. Wait a few hours 'til it's shiny and dry to the touch, then roll-on any good WB primer. This IS the solution!
Forrest
<<<<This IS the solution!>>>>I thought it was castration?
Barry E-Remodeler
I have done exactly this on our 1883 home.
I washed the ceiling. Used a garden sprayer, sponge, and lots of elbow grease! You can rather easily wash the calcimine off, and then it takes paint or canvas just fine. 20 years later it still looks fine.
Bob Chapman
The vinegar cuts the alkali bond, so less elbow grease is needed, but you are right that removing the #### is the only guaranteed way to deal with it.
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Well, time for an update. I still haven't gotten over to the job to actually look at it, but HO tells me it is covered with latex paint, and probably several layers. She's been touching it up every now and then, but it continues to peel in short time. Also has some cracks, which I believe probably go through the plaster.
I was correct in assuming they are adamantly opposed to using drywall. Funny story on that one. Wife was telling me that after using drywall in the family room, they really don't like it one bit. If they had it to do over again, they would have saved the plaster. So I mentioned that maybe the contractor just did a lousy job, as many do with drywall, and if it was done properly they would never know the difference. She let me go on for a while before reminding me that I did the work in the family room about 10 years ago. Oopsie :p
So anyways, she went on to share a couple of ideas she got from other sources (didn't say where). One is to remove the latex paint, then cover the calcimine paint with a thick coating of wall paper paste, and paint over that. This one doesn't sound like such a good idea for 2 reasons - wallpaper peels off calcimine paint, and pain peels off wall paper paste. I don't think I'll agree to go with that option.
The other idea is to use a wallpaper steamer to soften the calcimine paint, allowing me to scrape the bulk of it off with relative ease. I kind of like that idea, but not sure it would be any better than using a garden sprayer with vinegar water, as suggested by a previous poster.
Well, the job is still a ways off, since I'm currently painting a large apartment and have a front stairs to rebuild, before tackling the calcimine paint project. ~ Ted W ~
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You could perhaps use one of those power paint removers that's designed for siding. Would tear up the plaster, of course, but you could skim coat it.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
I theory at least, the steamer sounds like a good idea. The steam would penetrate and soften the latex paint, and on the calcimime might take the place of the vinegar to loosen it, but without as much scrubbing and dripping it down onto yourself.
If you got hat way, I'll be interested in hearing the results.Her DIY solutiuon sounds like a home made version of scrubbing and using the paint primers made specifically for sealing and painting it, except that the paste would just float on top of the powdered coat of calcimime, providing a barrier, but not penetrating adhesion. It would probably be a somewhat elastic layer less likely to crack and peel than some other base primers, but still no sure solution.good luck and be carefull criticizing those previous contractors and their work.
;)
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...maybe the contractor just did a lousy [drywall] job...She let me go on for a while before reminding me that I did the work in the family room about 10 years ago...
I agree that a proper drywall job (especially on a ceiling) is indistinguishable from a plaster job so now you've got me curious. Did you take a look at the job you did 10 years ago? How did it look? Have you gotten any better? 10 years ago, I sucked. I didn't even know which side of the taping knife to use :-)
The last drywall over plaster job I did came out very, very good, but you could still find the butt joints if you looked carefully. I can make butt joints completely disappear by using floating butt joints, but that's not possible when drywalling over plaster.
If I were bidding on adding a new layer of drywall, I could come up with a price. To repair it, which is what she seems to want, would be T&M. There's just no way to know what's hidden under semi-adhered "paint".
My experience with even a bit of wallpaper paste left on after removing wall paper is that it doesn't paint well at all! Gets lumpy, makes the paint run and look weird. I would definitely agree with you not to use that idea!