Ok, I’m in a bit of a jam. Primed the panelling in my den with Benj Moore Fresh Start (acrylic) and it scratches right off. Should I have used the oil based primer? I was concerned with using oil based due to fumes and that my wife is 6 months pregnant. Didnt want her breathing that in. I tried sanding a bit but it didnt seem to make much of a dent unless I really scrubbed hard but thought that would etch the surface too much.
Room looks horrible…need to fix asap…one week out from Thanksgiving dinner and all the families are coming to our house.
Help.
L
Edited 11/15/2003 2:24:04 AM ET by larleb
Replies
Hey, just a couple of questions..........
What is the paneling made of...plywood, luan, particle board, composition,masonite?
What is the finished surface...varnished wood, vinyl overlay, veneer ?
How long has it been since you primed...how long has it had to dry!
Do you own a wallpaper scraper? You may need it plus extra blades.
..............Iron Helix
I assume the sanding you did was before you primed. If so, did the primer bite better in that area? Whenever I have painted paneling, I've sanded the surface and used shellac based Bins. You need to vent the room well, but the strong odor disapates quickly. I have had customers that along with sanding have used the water based Bins with good luck. Was this a wood paneling or the vinyl covered wood picture paneling?
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
How long did you wait before you tried scratching it off? Sometimes primer needs a week to achieve maximum adhesion. Take a strip of masking tape and rub it firmly on the wall. Peel it off quickly. If the primer doesn't come off, I'd just topcoat it and hope for the best. Much easier to paint than to strip a wall. The primer is not made to be a durable finish, just smooth the surface, hide, and promote bonding of the top coats. That particular primer might be easier than some to scratch. The finish coat is tougher.
If you decide it needs to get stripped, I'd sand lightly with about 150 grit. You'll use a lot of sandpaper. That won't change the smoothness of the final finish. Kilz makes a primer that's supposed to work over tile, paneling, enamel and everything. Buy a quart and test it before doing the whole room. There might have been a little oil on the paneling. Lemon or silicone or something like that. Wipe it down with odorless thinner before priming again. You'll want a fan for ventillation and your wife out of the house that day. The Kilz primer is shellac-based I think. You don't want her breathing the fumes from that either.
Bob, tried the masking tape and only small barely noticeable specs came off. I didnt sand the surface much before I primed (actually I only cut in at this point so not all is lost). The panelling has a slight sheen so I thought the sanding wasnt working.
How much sanding should I do? I sanded with a pole sander by hand and when I press real hard I can get the surface to look rough. Is that too much
I really want to shy away from oil based due to as I said earlier my wife is pregnant and I also have a 2.5 year old son around. Fumes arent good for either of them.
What's the chance that there is wax, wood glow, pledge or some such on the paneling compounding your problem?
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Thanks for the advice fellas but I just had a painter over that I used in the past. He's going to tear out the panelling and put up wallboard. Do it right and all. Thanks again.
L
Lots of things influence adhesion. Some coatings bond mechanically, some chemically. The surface smoothness and material, any leftover oil on the surface, all make a difference. Since your surface is so smooth, probably no mechanical bond happens. I also suspect that the paneling was either polished or waxed at some point. This stuff has to come off if you want things to stick. So, kill two birds with one stone and scrub down the walls with a good degreaser and one of those rough scotchbrite pads you use for cleaning grills. They're nice because they have a handle. Probably about the same tooth as 100 grit sandpaper. You won't see any difference in the smoothness of the paint job unless you're spraying. As far as the cleaner, mineral spirits will work but you don't want that in the house. I'd go with a good pine-oil cleaner. Scrub it and rinse with a sponge. That should scratch it enough to give a better bond.
For primer, I think the shellac-based primers stick better. But, they'll also dump a gallon of alcohol into the air. A water-based primer should be OK, but you should test it and make sure it says on the can that it sticks to ceramic tile. If it does that, it will stick to paneling.
If your current primer passes the "peel test" it would probably serve the purpose, but I'd be nervous if it seemed to scratch off really easily. It could just be that it has a soft pigment like talc or chalk. Because the surface underneath is so hard, it just seems to scratch easier. The surface on the finish coat will be harder. I'd probably pick a different brand though. Scrubbing will take off whatever of the old stuff didn't stick properly. Anything that stays stuck should be fine. If you scrub or sand enough so the surface is not glossy, that's enough. You don't have to make it rough enough to feel rough.
Thanks Bob but I called in the pro's and I'm having the panelling taken out and wallboard put in. Sometimes you have to know when to fold. This is one of those times. I learned a bit though. Thanks
L