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painting trim and doors

scampernatra | Posted in Construction Techniques on April 11, 2004 06:28am

Some questions for you painting pros out there. I have 24 doors and about 2000 feet of trim to paint for a new home. I have a sprayer that I’ll use on the walls and ceilings and I’ll use it on doors and trim also. I’m looking to perfect a system of spraying the doors and trim with minimal fuss and mess.

I’ve had limited success with racks and also with lining the walls with plastic. I’m thinking of somehow hanging the doors from the basement ceiling, setting up plastic walls and basically a huge spray booth. With the trim, there is so much of it I need an efficient way to set it up, spray, inspect, respray etc. without tripping over my hose, paint buckets etc. How do the pros set up to paint large quantities without wasting alot of time moving stock around and without making a huge mess? 

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  1. mike4244 | Apr 11, 2004 06:48am | #1

    I am not a professional painter, but may be able to offer a tip or two.I drive a 16d casing nail into the top of the door at each end, about one inch deep.Then bend nail over 90*. This keeps the door off the wall.After spraying one side , turn the door and the nails around. Then spray edges and front.With the trim I set a pair of horses up in the largest room .I screw 8'-0" 2x4 on flat to each horse. Load center first, then work out to edges of 2x4x8-0".This will prevent tipping if you load each side equally.Remove trim in same sequence. Usually by the time you finish spraying some of the first pieces of trim can be moved to donnage on the floor in the rooms that they go in.

    mike

  2. sawdust50 | Apr 11, 2004 07:47am | #2

    Here's what works for me.  I use a HVLP for latex and get great results, touchup after install is easy.

    Baseboard and trim (before installation):  I built tripod racks, with four levels that in pairs, hold 8 pieces of 16 foot trim.  Drywall screws are set in the end of the crossarms so that the trim is tilted and rests on the vertical leg.   These are about 5' tall with a base spread of 30" by 20" and have a light chain to keep the legs secured.  I am able to spray the edges and faces of even reed and flute MDF.  As long as you load each side the same they are stable.  Drop cloths are spread around and under the racks.    After about 1/2 hour drying time, I move the trim to a drying rack made of 6 x 48" x 3/4" ply with 2x4 legs and 5/16" x5" dowells.  These stack up and the layers are secured with 30" pipe clamps.  I reload the racks with more trim, and go again.  4 hours gets about 40 16' pieces painted.

    Doors - presume you are working in the basement, and the interior doors are lightweight pine or hollowcore, and have lock holes and hinge mortises already prepared.    Get a handful of the hooks used for hanging tools or bikes in the garage, and  several pairs of 3/4" EMT metal conduit.   Place the hooks in the bottom of the joists in pairs with spacing about 18" apart.  Hang the EMT on the hooks and secure the EMT to the hook with a Tyrap or twist of wire.   

    In the top of the doors, dril 3/16" holes and  screw in simple 3"clothesline hooks in pairs (they must match the spacing of the EMT.)  You now have a rack system on which to hang the doors and slide them along to drying positions.  A simple shower curtain or tarp shields the spray from the ones drying.   If you have to, youcan spray in a "booth" and move them to the overhead rack if you put a 3" drywall screw in the top hinge mortise and in the stile were the latch bolt goes. 

    I know this sounds like a lot, but do the prep and you handle the door less, and it hangs out of the way and is not leaning somewhere to be knocked down.  In fact, some builders use this method to hang the doors from the floor joists in their model homes, to keep them from getting banged up by lookieloos.

    If you need pics of the trim racks, let me know.

    duster

    1. iasm | Apr 11, 2004 08:54am | #3

      I spray all my trim and doors with conversion varnish.It dries in about 10 minutes and the finish is as smooth as furniture.I spray the trim after its installed.I do one door at a time.Spray a seal coat,sand, then a finish coat and hang the door.

      Rod

  3. User avater
    goldhiller | Apr 11, 2004 03:31pm | #4

    Will you be alone or have a helper?

    Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
  4. RW | Apr 11, 2004 05:49pm | #5

    All you need is paint sticks and finish nails. Stand all your doors up in the garage, on rosin paper, and at an angle to each other - so you got one big accordian. Hold them that way with paint sticks on top, tacked in with nails. Long strips of shoe mold work good too - just somthing thin. They're standing, you can get at both sides. If they don't come blocked on the bottom, add your own by putting on plastic carpet protectors (plastic dime with a nail in it)

    As to spraying the rest . . . do it on the wall. More better

    "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain

  5. gdavis62 | Apr 11, 2004 08:20pm | #6

    Here is how I do doors.  I think it was a method shown in a FH article.

    The pic shows three doors standing up ready to paint all sides and long edges, but of course the row can extend to as long as you have doors and space.  The tops and bottoms were hit with a fast dry primer/sealer before we stood them up.  Scrap rips are run like RR tracks on the floor to stand the doors up off the floor surface, and rips are tacked along the top as shown to make the whole thing stable.

    The slabs are 90 to each other, and spaced so that edge spraying is easily done.  It might take two or three rows, but usually a whole house full of doors can be done in one room.

    Trim painting has been discussed here before, with the consensus opinion, shared by me, that it is really easier to slap everything up and then get everything prepped, puttied, caulked, and dusted down, then spray in place, bagging and taping off where necessary.  Painting all those boards and then moving them to drying racks is a waste of time, especially when you consider you'll have to hit everything once again after it is up and full of nail holes. 

    We prime the walls right after mud and tape work is finished, finish-paint all the ceilings and closets using airless spray and backrolling, then trim out and paint as discussed above, then hand-cut and roll all the walls.

    1. sawdust50 | Apr 12, 2004 06:38am | #11

      Yeah the extra time to do the racking is necessary when the client is having

      all the flooring done with marble, hardwoods and carpet, is living inside, and

      wants the trim atop the solid floors, not slapped in place like a spec house.

      I note the rest of the posts are in the vien of new construction with no live house to deal with or special foloring issues.

      duster

  6. wrick2003 | Apr 11, 2004 08:39pm | #7

         We just had about a dozen doors and about a mile of trim to paint.

         I found a friend of a friend who had a warehouse with tall ceilings. Lined the doors up, stood the trim up against the wall, and sprayed away. Sprayed one side of the doors first, then the trim, then flipped the doors to do the other sides. The jambes were easy enough to also.

         We hung a HUGE sheet of poly on the wall first, and luckily the overspray wasn't an issue. You could however build a big temporary spraying room by hanging more poly.  

         It took a whole day with one helper, but was well worth it. Transport was easy enough. The finished product was as professional as you can get.

         It cost about $100.00 misc. mats, plus $100.00 for warehouse rental.

         Good Luck.     rg  

    1. scampernatra | Apr 12, 2004 05:01am | #8

      Thanks all. I would address this to ALL if I knew how.Duster- yes I would like to see your racks. ( man does that sound kinky!) iasm-what is conversion varnish? Goldhiller- yes I'll have a helper. Bob Dylan-Do you trim out your closets? Aren't they just another little room?

      I actually think I'll do the doors accordian style, this seems to make the most sense to me given the space I'll have. As far as the trim goes, I'm undecided. In the past I've sprayed it ,hung it and did the touchup. I've always been intriqued by the idea of spraying the trim after it was hung for a cleaner look, but it seems that cutting everything in by hand and rolling would be more work. Is there a good way to mask off all the trim, door jambs, etc. and still be able to spray the walls while back rolling the final coat?    

      1. User avater
        goldhiller | Apr 12, 2004 05:47am | #9

        Since you have a helper and seem to desire to shoot in a booth to contain over-spray and drift, this sort of thing might work out well for you.

        Here's the cheap and dirty version of a door rack that can be quickly built on site. 2x6 cross rail on the floor, 2x4 upright and 1x4 or 1x6 diagonals. And some screws. Even better if you half-lap that 2x6 and 2x4 together. Notch cut in top of 2x4 to receive a lag you've screwed dead center in the end of the door. This allows you to drop the door in the rack and to spin the door over in the rack to access both sides. And gives you the potential advantage of being able to spray on a horizontal surface. When a door is painted, you and your helper each grab a lag and walk the door over to another rack you've put together to hold the fellas while they dry. Compact drying storage. Just make sure you calculate the distance between the diagonals and the bottom of the notch before you cut the uprights to length or you won't be able to spin the door.

        I've got four of these types of racks at the shop, but they're fancier deals. Adjustable for various lengths of doors and when we use them we have a plywood washer inserted between the door edge and the upright. These units don't have a quick engage notch but rather just a hole thru which the lag passes. We tighten the lags with a ratchet and go to work. The whole thing gets very rigid once you tighten the lags. Door then has no tendency to roll over on you as you work with it. They also have wheels under 'em so we can just roll 'em around where we want 'em.

        Anyway, this sort of an approach would let you put up a small spray booth and do one door at a time in there.

        As for the trim……….I'd also seriously consider doing it after it's mounted. Seems like all the elements of this job favor that.

        Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.

      2. gdavis62 | Apr 12, 2004 06:36am | #10

        Sure, it's done all the time.  Bag up all the openings, and spray away.  An article in FH titled "Spray Everything" discussed that a while back. 

        As for the closets, we find it is worth it to just do the walls in there with the flat ceiling paint when we are doing the ceilings up front, and the closets are all bare, then be real careful when doing rod and shelf work.  Closet base and case are the only things we prepaint before it goes on, and we just spot touch the putty fillings at the nail holes.

        I am talking about standard closets, not walk-ins.  Most times, we do standard closets with the wire shelving stuff from the Closetmaid line.

        Think about how much you hate to cut around trim, and then magnify all that in the tight confines of a closet.  Try manipulating that roller loaded with paint above that top shelf.  That is why we paint 'em first, then do the trim and detail work after wearing white gloves and wearing no tool belts to scar walls or doorjambs.

      3. sawdust50 | Apr 12, 2004 06:43am | #12

        I'll send a few pics to you; forgot to mention the house was occupied and all new marble, travertine and hardwoods are being installed with the new stuff (reason for spraying beforehand) going down on top of the flooring.   Guess how many pieces I get to block plane and scribe??  This job is by the hour - no problem says the client, who wants it this way. BTW they tore out all the old base which was slapped in place, filled and sprayed (nice to do in an empty house before the finish painter hides all the sins....

        duster

        1. gdavis62 | Apr 12, 2004 07:17am | #13

          So go back and take a look at the FH article, "Spray Everything."  The painter prep crew is bagging everything.  The furniture, the floors, whether marble or marmoleum, the piano, the couch, the carpet, the windows, doors, maybe even the cat.  And he says in the article that most all his work is in occupied, lived-in homes.

          We just tiptoed out of a new-house job after a complete spray-up of all the trim, and it weren't no tract.  Built-ins everywhere, hardwood galore, stone, tile, natural white oak accents, etc.

          I'll prefinish anything that goes up cleanly and it's done.  But a painted trim scheme, that requires all the nailhole fixes, dent fixes, the sanded off corners to fair up the miters, the sanded-off edges to flush up joints, the latex caulk at every seam and joint.  It just seems silly to me to do the big board shuffle of prefinishing, painting racks, drying racks, all the space it takes up, when you have to go and hit it all at the end anyhow.

          Since we are talking about spraying, and we have to bag up so much to get it all done, why not just get the spot prime, first coat, and final coat on all in one session, and skip the board shuffle up front?

          1. sawdust50 | Apr 12, 2004 08:30am | #14

            You're right. sometimes the bag route is the way.  We did a two story quarterwinder stair, balcony, skirts etc. and rails that way with a full stain and finish.  Got the owners to leave for three days while the colored oil and poly coats cured.   The place looked like a Gladwrap commerical, blue tape everywhere.......

            I guess we can do what works for getting the job done and keeping the client happy.

            duster

          2. ian | Apr 12, 2004 04:22pm | #16

            ... the FH article, "Spray Everything."  The painter prep crew is bagging everything.  The furniture, the floors, whether marble or marmoleum, the piano, the couch, the carpet, the windows, doors, maybe even the cat ... 

            sounds like they're getting ready to paint Mr Bean style

          3. User avater
            IMERC | Apr 12, 2004 05:55pm | #17

            I know where that job was or is it I know where somebody got their coaching from.....Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming....                                        WOW!!!   What a Ride!

          4. ian | Apr 12, 2004 06:25pm | #18

            afterwards I thought that maybe you hadn't seen the sketch where Mr Bean paints his apartment by placing a very large fire cracker in a can of paint.  Glad that it made it onto your screens

          5. User avater
            IMERC | Apr 12, 2004 06:41pm | #19

            The most unsual one I ever saw was somebody had used a leaf blower as a paint brush... Painted the whole 9 yards.....Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming....                                        WOW!!!   What a Ride!

      4. sawdust50 | Apr 13, 2004 06:36am | #21

        Here are the pics - the stuff is not pretty but it works.

        duster

        1. scampernatra | Apr 14, 2004 01:53am | #22

          Looks pretty to me. Thanks for the pics.

  7. BKCBUILDER | Apr 12, 2004 03:57pm | #15

    Okay, So I'm assuming I'm the only one that uses door trusses to spray doors. Sold at most paint suppliers, mine came from Sherwin Williams. Holds the doors accordian style, just a few cleats in top(no nails, truss plate style) . They allow you to spray both sides and edges. Airless is the way for us.........

    1. scampernatra | Apr 13, 2004 05:35am | #20

      Not familar with door trusses, but I imagine truss spacers ( the 24" on center kind) would work well. What about another alternative to plastic? I was thinking of felt paper for making a booth. Put a couple layers on the floor, line the perimeter and spray away. Cheaper than plastic,more absorbent, and most importantly, less slippery. I don't do much painting so the investment in dropcloths and the storage doesn't make much sense for me.

  8. CAGIV | Apr 14, 2004 04:36am | #23

    I didn't read what others have to say so this may have been suggested..

    For doors I've set them up in a row in a pattern resembling

    ////////

    with a board running across the top to keep them all together, obviously more space and wider angle then that above 2 drywall screws in the bottom of each door keep them off the ground.

    for the trim I built a rack out of scrap we had at the shop and some 1x2's the rack it self can hold about 50 16' sticks of standard trim, I set up horses running parrell to the trim and put 1x2's on the top to hold the trim up off them, spray a piece put it on the rack, spray a piece put it on the rack... etc.

    It works very efficently for me using an hvlp cup gun.

    If you would like I can post a picture of the rack tomorrow, let me know if you're interested.

    also have a quick cad drawing of it if you can view autocad files.

    Team Logo

    1. scampernatra | Apr 16, 2004 04:49am | #24

      Thanks. Please post pics.

  9. CAGIV | Apr 19, 2004 05:17am | #25

    just reminding myself to post the damn pics...

    bad memory

    Team Logo

  10. CAGIV | May 01, 2004 02:28am | #26

    sorry it took so long to get this to you, too late??

    since the pictures it's been slightly modified, in between the horizontal slats, I put blocking to stabilize it, and added 4 casters, it's now movable when loaded, and the slats are more sturdy.

    If I were to do it again, I'd bump the horizontals up to 1x3 for added strenght.  they are 6" apart which gives enough room to manuever wet trim onto it with out hitting the top on the slat above.

    Held about 50 or so 1x6x16 pieces, never had a chance to fill it completly with standard casing or base.  It was cheap to make and serves it's purpose well.

    Team Logo

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