Just bought a winter project house that I will rehab and sell in the spring. A heavy smoker owned the house and from my understanding EVERYTHING should be washed with TSP before paint. Is this necessary or is there a good primer that will cover well?
Also there are a few areas of paneling that I wish to paint as well and was once told the best way to cover paneling is with an oil base. Since I’m not a painter and prefer not to mess with oil clean up and would like to do the whole house in one color with one batch of paint, will latex cover well with a primer?
Edited 11/27/2003 5:17:36 AM ET by Scott R.
Replies
Scott
last winter I painted a whole house that was paneled and that I had to prime first, but I used a latex primer. I believe it was a coronado product. It worked pretty good. You should go to a profesional painters store(Sherwin Williams or the like) and they will steer you in the right direction
Mark
Concerning the paneling...... You can probably get away with using a primer, then the latex. But a lot depends on how glossy the paneling is/was. A lot also depends on how much smoke residue is on it.
As for the smoke -- good luck. Smoke residue is a thick, sticky grease. Generally, it is also holding layers of dust too. The best bet is to use the TSP, or some other cleaner. I once did a smoke room without the cleaning step. It took more coats than it was worth, and I was using oil based primer.
One thing that I have not tried is the liquid sandpaper stuff. The big boxes sell the stuff in gallons -- claims to add "tooth" to just about anything.
Good luck -- and don't forget to use good ventilation.
In the areas of heavy smoke wash down with TSP and get the heaviest build up off. Then prime with Bins Zinseer Primer/Sealer. This primer sealer is also what we use on paneling. The paneling needs not only to be sealed but needs a bonding agent or paint will chip at the slightest impact on the face and this product does both. I use a sponge mop on walls to clean the first layer off then the second do it by hand. DanT
many, many years ago when my brother and i were the company lackeys for our dad's general contracting biz, they would do the occasional insurance, fire and smoke damage remodel/renovations. it was our job- at the bottom of the food chain- to demo what couldn't be fixed and wash whatever could be saved and re-painted. (i can still smell those jobs! and quickly learned to NEVER look in the fridge) as i remember, we used a fairly harsh industrial cleaner (Zep?), sponges, rubber gloves and lots of rinse water. i believe the painters would then use Parks alcohol based sealer/primer for the painted surfaces. i can't remember if they used the same stuff on woodwork or paneling.
have fun!
m
Washing with the TSP will do several good things, namely cleaning and provide a better base for adhesion of the top coats. It's not the only thing in the world that works though. A half and half mix of white vinegar and warm water does pretty good on walls. Since you mentioned Sherwin, their ProClean solution is pretty strong stuff, and not only will clean the walls, but slightly oxidize the surface.
You don't have to spend days with a sponge in hand either. A sponge mop makes quick work of walls. SW's ProBlock or Kilz would both be good primers. ProBlock stinks less. Or SW's SF1, if the smell is noticable, is more geared towards keeping the odors trapped.
"The child is grown / The dream is gone / And I have become / Comfortably numb " lyrics by Roger Waters
I have used both Kilz regular formula, water based formula and Pro Block and found that they are good basic products but Bins is superior in stain blockage and coverage. Just my experience. I guess it depends on what you are using it on. DanT
Scott,
I also recommend a TSP wash followed by a stain-sealing primer.
Despite what many paint manufacturers claim regarding the stain-sealing capabilities of their proprietary line of primers, I think you'll find two good primers out there that would work well on your project. One by Kilz:
http://www.masterchem.com/pages/default.aspx?NavID=23
and the other by Zinser. Don't have a link for Zinser.
Of the two, I prefer Zinser.
Out of high school I sold Porter Paint in Louisville, KY for awhile and we sold a product in a black can called Enamelac. The fire restoration companies used tons of it . Seems like it was rumoured to be great stuff-never have used it myself.
For areas that are affected by smoking, cooking, fireplace, or hobby-generated films over the paint; "deck wash" (i.e. the stuff you buy to clean and reprep a deck prior to re-staining) products are very effective at removing them. For greasy finger-prints, black rings around light switches, crayon, etc. we've had some success with Zep High-Traffic Carpet Spot Cleaner and with Zep Pet Spotter.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Hey it 's only a paint job, hmmm but what kind of paint job? I always doubt people who say hey I love to paint. Cause the way I figure a job like the one you are talking about is 90% prep and 10% painting.
What I do on the rentals that works without fail is prep the walls by washing them with simple green and scotch brite, then at least a double wipe down rinse. Any thing that needs to be deglazed gets a good rub with the scotch brite. It produces a good rough surface for paint to get a good bite. In the older days some of the old places would look like somebody pissed on the walls, the nicotine was just dripping off of them. Seems like the supper smokers aren't around to much any more. But yea that was disgusting.
Clay
I helped a friend paint his mom's house last spring and the walls were disgusting. She was a chain smoker and it looked like windows were never open in 20 years. You could practically scrape the stuff off the walls. We had many people helping and between the 2 of us, we were the only ones who did a reasonable job.
We cleaned the walls with TSP and applied it in a back pack sprayer, like the ones you use for spraying weedkiller. If you re applied the liquid it would start to leach more tar out of the plaster leave "tea stains" Then we tried to use a waterbased primer and it reactivated the tar. We went to he oil based primer called Zinsler(sp?) and it required 2 coats. We then applied 2 coats of a good acrylic latex paint and there we areas wher we could see "bleed through" in areas. The primer and painting was done with an airless
Its really hard to clean nicotene and its like watching grass grow except its hard work yeilding small results .
Window glass , hard surfaces have to be cleaned before painting or the stuff will get back on the wood. The best and fastest approach is tsp and an hour dry oil primer . Oil top coat is best too , because it needs curing time to not bleed through if you dumped a lot of water paint on top .
On a scale of one to ten in painting , this is about a 9.
Tim Mooney
Thanks for all the input
Well it looks as though my fears are confirmed and will have to spend many hours washing everything with TSP, AND applying a good primer. I’m very familiar with Zinsser’s BIN primer; always have a gallon on hand for various projects.
I really appreciate the heads up on using a cleaning apparatus other than the ole hand sponge method!
*** One more question regarding paint selection. Considering I will be covering both plaster and paneling (primed of course). Would I achieve any benefits by going with an oil base paint?
Scott R.
Edited 11/30/2003 12:55:01 PM ET by Scott R.
BTT... Hoping for a response to paint question in previous post.
Thanks
Scott R.
Pretty good advice so far. I'll add my two cents worth.
I used, some time ago, to work at a bar cleaning up. Tobacco smoke was thick on every surface. One trick is to use a hot TSP solution. The proper tools help also. Visit a commercial cleaning supply house and get a "wall scrubber", a pole with a sturdy swivel head with a Velcro face. Get a few extra pads. The heavy duty cotton type and a couple of nylon scrubbers for the rough spots work well. These units allow you to vigorously scrub a wall floor to ceiling while standing.
Save the back for recreation.