Here’s some pictures of the structural concrete deck we poured a few weeks ago.
Let me know if you want to see other pictures, like how we tied the rebar to the steel or where the paneldeck turned down into the ICF wall, etc.
This deck spans 15′ from the back wall to that chunk of steel (w12x26) up near the house. That piece of steel gets two posts in it, but there are no supports under the field of the deck itself. It’s 25′ wide.
MERC
Replies
This deck spans 15' from the back wall to that chunk of steel (w12x26) up near the house. That piece of steel gets two posts in it, but there are no supports under the field of the deck itself. It's 25' wide.
15' x 25' supported solely on the two 25' sides, yes? Very interesting. New to me. What was the material cost (not the concrete)? R value?
I have a similar application coming up. 17' span (x 55' over an indoor pool) a problem?
Thank you.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I wish that had been around when I built my house in 79.
I have the garage over a basement. I know that the house designer did not have any engineering done on it. And I don't think that foundation people did either.
Just build a "floor" of steel joist, plywood and temp supports. Along with some rebar and concrete.
It is 24x24 with a steel beam down the center and one post.
But it is a pain to try to insulate and I don't have much head room.
Cool
Is everthing engineered? Is the paneldeck a foam wall product? What did you do for waterproofing?
Rick
Very cool. Is that a two way waffle slab or a one way slab? I can't tell from the pics.
I can't say that I have ever seen a site cast structural concrete slab in residential work. I have seen some precast panels used for a garage over a basement, but never site cast. Why was concrete chosen over say a wood flloor?
Eric
All responses in one post...I've attached a few more pictures too.
Yes it spans 15' with only supports on the two 25' sides. The back wall is my ICF foundation and the front is supported by a w12x26 with two posts. 17' span is no problem with this product. You can get upto around 30 foot span with it. If you want to, send me an email directly and I will send you the email for the guy that did the design and specification for my job. He likes to work via email and will travel pretty much anywhere to help make sure the product goes in right.
The paneldeck forms (see picture) come in 2' widths, by any practical length (my came 19' and we cut them to 15' and 4' for two decks). When they butt up against each other, they form a pocket which, with rebar, becomes a load carrying beam. See the other picture to see how the rebar was laid out on mine. That picture also shows how we turned rebar down in the poured wall.
The cost was broken down as (I did about 450 sq ft of decking - it was two decks, a big one and a small one on the front, I've just posted pictures of the big one):
Paneldeck forms: 3.75/sq ft (for 8" forms, which pours out to 12")
Rebar: about $300 (for about 450 sq ft) so or $0.66/sq ft.
Floor concrete: $600 (for 450 sq ft)
Concrete pump: $400 (can be eliminated if conditions allow direct access)
Shoring: $300 (renting Mason's scaffolding)
Labor to set the forms, rebar, bracing, pour, finish : $3.50/sq ft.
As you can see from the picture of the forms you have one section where your ceiling is 2.5" of foam and another larger area that is 8" (the holes in the forms are mechanical chases. In fact if you plug HVAC into one end and punch a hole in the other you don't have to run duct work). The effective R value is 20-25 depending on climate. Around here (NC), I get about 22. I will add another layer of 1" pink foam to get closer to 30, which with ZERO air infiltration will be plenty. Then a layer of drywall (the PanelDeck forms have two metal studs in them that run the length of the form).
Waterproofing - the slab itself is basically waterproof. But I will be putting stone over it or a stamped concrete topping slab. Underneath the stone/concrete I will be laying down a sheet of EPDM roofing. I won't glue it down or anything, just gonna lay it over like a tarp and pour right on it. Both my decks also happen to be covered to further reduce the likelihood of water issues.
I choose concrete over wood because I wanted a stone or concrete floor on my porches. I tour off a small, but wonderful, screen porch that had a concrete floor. I loved it. Now I realize that you could do such a thing with wood structure, but when we looked at the engineering for that (had to keep it very stiff), I had posts everywhere along with footings. The cost started adding up, not to mention the annoyance of a forest of posts in my basement (albeit just a storage area, but still...). Besides wood...outside...under stone...only a matter of time before something goes wrong. When the PolySteel ICF guy showed up at my house and I showed him the plans he introduced me to the PanelDeck product. I was sold on it. It ties into my foundation so I have a (sort of) safe room. It has no issues supporting my stone floor with a clear span. It was done by the same guy doing all the rest of the work. It just seemed right and price wasn't the first consideration.
MERC
Again, very cool.
What is really amazing to me are the pictures of PanelDeck being installed on a Roof! Wonder what kind of slump you need to keep that concrete from sliding down the incline. In my area, it is uncommon to see structural concrete buildings. Most commercial buildings are steel framed.
Eric
Yes, I haven't asked that question yet. The guy that poured this deck is driving to TN in a few weeks to pour a PanelDeck roof (residential). I will ask him what he does to keep the concrete on the roof. I guess you might pour it in short "lifts" up the roof and let it setup slightly.
MERC.
I will ask him what he does to keep the concrete on the roof.
We poured concrete on a 30% driveway without any difficulty. But I routinely pour a low slump mix. I'm quite certain considerably steeper wouldn't be a problem.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
It has no issues supporting my stone floor with a clear span. It was done by the same guy doing all the rest of the work. It just seemed right and price wasn't the first consideration.
Very interesting, thanks. My alternative is steel bar joists with a nominal 4" slab which comes out 1/3 cheaper, a couple inches taller, and insulating a bit more difficult. Pretty much what I'd expected after I had a guy design cast-in-place tee beams for me once several years ago. Steel is generally a much less expensive way to get the span strength. One thing I forgot to ask was: what was your total load rating?
A large determinant for me is whether I would be required to bring in an expert. This was pretty straightforward for the reinforcing and placing as far as I could see. Clearly something to consider.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
One thing I forgot to ask was: what was your total load rating?
I don't know exactly, that was the engineers problem. But I said from the beginning that I wanted a stone finish, so I'm sure I got 10-15 lbs extra dead load + the normal 40 lbs/sq ft live load.
I think I found span tables at http://www.polysteel.com.
I would probably have considered other approaches but headroom was an issue for me.
I think to get a competing product to this with bar joists, you would have to spray insulation on the bottom of the deck. A closed cell spray will need about 3 inches to achieve r-20+ and will run about $2/sq ft maybe a little less. So that might bring the effective cost up closer to what I paid.
MERC
<i>Let me know if you want to see other pictures, like how we tied the rebar to the steel or where the paneldeck turned down into the ICF wall, etc.</i>
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I'm curious as to how this is secured to the ICF wall. Hardware? Continuous pour?
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Thanks.