I think I’ve died and gone to heaven!
Quite some time ago I posted a query asking if anyone knew if any current tile mfr produced the old style paper mount 2×2 ceramic mosaics. Didn’t get much response here but after several phone calls to the Dallas Ceramics (Dal Tile) plant and talking with at least one knowledgeable customer service rep. I found that if you specify the product number for the tile you select with a “PM” suffix, you can indeed still get the paper face mounted mosiac tile I remember from 30 years ago when I was in the tile trade.
So what’s the big deal?
The last shower stall I did in my previous house was done with that plastic dot mount crap. No two sheets seemed to be the same size and if you got *one* sheet installed with the mounting arrows in the wrong direction, you had a total mess. The trim shapes were mounted on a different module than the sheets. Several sheets were out of square.
Paper mount allows you to aline and adjust the joints to completely hide the sheet joints. You get 100% contact between the tile and the setting bed. For wall installation, you can grout the tile from the back and get all the joints completely filled as well as getting better adhesion.
The down side …. yeah, there’s no such thing as a free lunch!
You have to order a minimum amount. My shower and bathroom floor for the new place is a 130sf which was sufficient. You pay $1.00/SF over the cost of dot mount. But that’s chicken feed in my book compared to the hassles the dot mount stuff presents.
This is just a follow up for anyone equally frustrated with the advent of ‘labor friendly’ mfr’ing offerings that bite us, me at least, in the hinder.
Replies
I have not done enough tile work to remember the paper backing, either that or I'm not old enough, or maybe I'm so old I can't remember...
Is it solid paper like kraft paper? You get 100% contact between the tile and the setting bed. How? Doesn't the paper get in the way? With the plastic dot style, won't the mastic ooze up between the backing?
For wall installation, you can grout the tile from the back Um, how do you apply grout through the sheetrock?
Do it right, or do it twice.
The paper is on the face side, not the back!!!
Oh, I knew that! Not.
Ok, what about grouting from behind?Do it right, or do it twice.
I'm starting a glass Mosaic on Mon. Paper faced 3/4"; hope the paper comes off as easily as they say!
Ok, what about grouting from behind?
I'll be waiting for the answer to that!
Eric
Grouting from the back side is another one of the advantages of paper mount. Although you could, of course, grout dot mount from the back side as well.
Just set up a work table big enough to hold the sheets you're working with, get the grout ready, them smear the back side just before you are ready to place it. This works mostly for walls; with floors is not so much an issue. On walls, you need to have the joints filled so the individual tiles don't move around on you after you've pulled the paper off.
Yes, it's an old technique. Like I may have mentioned early on, I did this work 30+ years ago. For walls, or floors for that matter, over wonderboard or some other flat surface using thin set methods, dot mount may be OK. But for a traditional mud set installation, I'll take paper mount any day.
...........
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Elcid -
The paper is on the face side. It's adhered with a water soluable glue. Once the tile are in place, you wet the paper, go have a quick cup of coffee, come back and the paper peels right off.
The beauty of this is, like in a shower where you might have quite a grade between the walls and a nearby wall termination, you can more easily adjust the tile to 'spread' out to make the grade transition. Something you simply cannot do with dot mount tile.
Why am I so fanatic about this? Because if enough people realize how much easier (yes !easier!) this type of mounting is to work with when it comes to producing a first rate job, maybe it will come back in favor.
...........
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
I guess it won't come back as a popular option because the consumer can't see the pretty tiles thye are buying. And thenm you have that paper to throw away, etc.
So on the back grouting, you pack the joints with grout first, and it keeps the thinset from oozing up into the void. Do you have to wipe the grout off the faces any differently?
Do it right, or do it twice.
Obviously, once you pull the paper off, all you have is a bunch of individual tiles laying on the setting bed. Thus for walls is the reason you spread the grout on the back side first to hold them in place for when the paper's removed. Floors presents a diffent problem in that you don't grout them first but, as soon as the paper's pulled, you have to spread the grout before you put any kneeling boards or *any* thing on the tile since the glue's still wet and would stick to whatever you put on them. You work a little area at a time.
We always took a rubbing stone and 'rubbed' the floor in with the grout to help get rid of the surface glue. Again, you never lift anything off the floor directly, you have to slide it off to avoid picking up the tiles. Once it's thoroughly wetted down, the glue is pretty easy to get off and doesn't take a lot more washing than an ordinary grout job.
All this sounds like, and is, admittedly, more work than sticking down sheets of tile held together with little rigid dots of plastic. But for me, the trade-off between the amount of time it takes to get these dot mounted sheets lined up and adjusted is worth every bit of it.
...........
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
On a recent tiling job I had trouble cutting sheets of 1" hexagonal floor tile with my wet saw since the water dissolved the glue on the paper backing. This paper backing/mesh was on the back of the tiles. I finally had to dry off my saw and just make the border cuts with a dry blade. It was a bit frustrating.
I never used a saw to cut mosaics, Steve. Just the cutting board. Full or partial sheets laid up as close to the edge as possible then removed strips of tile to be cut on the board.
Never did care for the back mounted (paper) type. Far too much coverage of the mounting medium between the tile and the setting bed.
...........
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]