Replies

1. 
   UncleDunc | Feb 21, 2004 01:47am | #1

   Unless the brick is really exceptionally ugly, I would tell the customer I had had a sudden attack of conscience and couldn't do it. Maybe offer to help him find another mason or plasterer.

1. 
   butch | Feb 21, 2004 03:12am | #2

   I need the work, and the brick is not ugly. but that's what she wants.

   Checked w/home depot, the assistant manager

    the guy said he'd been with "Quickkrete" for 19 years 

   He said to use Sand Mix Concrete and  mix

    w/50% Concrete Acrylic Fortifier and water

   lightly mist the brick before and apply mud

   Anybody got any input?????????????

   Edited 2/20/2004 7:13:16 PM ET by butch

1. 
   butch | Feb 21, 2004 03:29am | #3

   Bump,

    come on guys, gals

    help me out , any Ideas??????

   Edited to add gals

   Edited 2/20/2004 7:31:41 PM ET by butch

1. 
   rbishop108 | Feb 21, 2004 03:44am | #4

   Go to Lindemann Chimney Supply at http://www.lindemannchimney.com/#   

   Look up "Chambertech 2000", it is a special parging material made with cement, refractory mortar and pieces of shredded fiberglass. It is mixed with water and spread onto the brick. It is very sticky and can be troweled to any kind of texture you like.

   I use it for parging smokechambers of old fireplaces. It is fireproof, and if it's spread at more than 3/4" thickness, it is considered structural. Great stuff, although you'll have to find a mason to order it for you, they don't sell to homeowners.  It's about $40.00/5 gallon pail.

                                                                                             Rod

1. 
   butch | Feb 21, 2004 03:51am | #5

   Thanks for the reply,

   would you use this stuff even if your just doing the face side of the brick?

   I haven't checked that link yet, wanted to holler back at you before you got away

   Thanks again

2. 
   rbishop108 | Feb 21, 2004 04:00am | #6

   Yeah, I would use it on the face, It is gray in color, and stickier than all hell, mush it on and spread it out.

   Here's a link      http://www.lindemannchimney.com/asp/product.asp?recorprod=1&product=578&cat=133&ph=&keywords=&recor=&SearchFor=&PT_ID=

   Rod

3. 
   butch | Feb 21, 2004 04:32am | #9

   That was  a dead link

4. 
   IanDG | Feb 21, 2004 11:34pm | #13

   A simple coat of sand/cement, applied with a steel trowel and rubbed up with a wooden float is all you need.

   Paint bondcrete on the brickwork first and add some to the mixing water.

   I'd use a 6:1 sand/cement ratio.

   There is a quick and easy finish which might be acceptable. The same mix but real sloppy like yoghurt and apply it with a burlap rag.

   IanDG

5. 
   butch | Feb 22, 2004 01:56am | #15

   I used sand topping concrete mix and mixed it 100% with the acrylic fortifier.

   The real kicker, and I didn't know this till this morning.........................

   THE BRICK WAS PAINTED!!!!!!!!!!!(with a primer) 

   I applied a dab of bonding agent but it just laughed at it.

   So I didn't use it.

   I told her it was a tail light warranty. She just laughed.

    She took some pictures w/digital camera, when she e-mail's them to me I'll post,

   so you all can get a good laugh at me

2. 
   Piffin | Feb 21, 2004 04:01am | #7

   So the HD guy toldyou all that without knowing what kind of brick you are covering up?

   He's half right.

   but what is this bump hurry up guys stuff?

   Fine Homebuilding implies craftsmanship, right?

   Something that you work long hard years to learn.

   Something that you can't pick up off the shelf at Home Depot, right?

   So step back for a minute and look at the situation objectively.

   You've got a job that probably should not be done.

   And a 'craftsman' who hasn't got the foggiest idea how to do it.

   And a product ( Quickrete) known for shakey quality.

   And a retailer ( HD) known for handing out shakey advice.

   and you come across as somebody who is in a hurry to just get it done more than to do it right...

   And you are suprised that in a mere two hours nobody has stepped to the plate to help you get in over your head?

   I'll have to think about that one. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   butch | Feb 21, 2004 04:29am | #8

   Your right Piffin. I didn't mean to come across that way. But after stepping

   back and looking at it again, your right(don't you just hate that . LOL)

    I tell her basically the same thing, and she just shoots back, "remember this

   house is going to be rubble"  She says in a couple years she's going to have it torn

   down so she can sub divide the property(high rent part of town).  She really doesn't

   seem to care how long

   it will last.  So I guess my question I'm trying to ask is, what  I'm attempting to do,

   will it give me satisfactory results? It's really hard to give all the minute details when

   trying to get answers to questions.  I really appreciate your input.

   I didn't know that quickkrete was known for it's shakey quality

1. 
   Piffin | Feb 21, 2004 05:38am | #10

   Sakrete is better, but still a premix product.

   The portland in the mix is what makes it sticky, but it is the most expensive portion in the mix so these companies keep it as short as they can. Works fine in ideal cases where stacking brick on top of one another. Gravity helps hold them in place.

   But you need it on the face. Given the thermal changes this will go through, I doubt that a regular mix will hold longer than a couple years. Remember also that it will get bopped a few times with a poker and logs so it will be tempted to say "Oh chip"

   So you do need the bonding agent and a modifier. I would mix with more portland - say add a shovelful of portland to a bag of quickrete. That and a modifier will make a better mix. Make it as dry as you can spread it. If you can spread some on a steel float and turn it over and the gob sticks to the float still, you have a decent batch.

   I don't know what kind of brick you are covering too though. a slick face is harder to bond to. It could take two coats. For anything near smooth finish, you'll proabably need two coats anyway. One technique for polishing it out is to mist it awhen almost hard and trowel in place, like on a concrete floor, but that will destroy the bond between this coat and the brick, which is one reason that stucco is usually done with three coats.

   brown coat to build base

   Then you fill coat to level

   Then the finish coat to look good.

   But sounds like all she wants is a slap and dash job.

   So you want to focus on that bond. Clean the brick. TSP works good.

   Then rinse and dry. Then paint on some bonding agent. Coffee time.

   Now, mix up your batch with the extra portland and modifier. ( this is almost the same product as the bonding agent and I think HD markets one that claims to do both. The modifier slows cure time and is a sort of plasticizer. It increases workability and cure strength and it feels stickier.)

   Then do your best. For just a fireplace surrond, there isn't the large area for much technique, It will be a combination of plaster/sheetrock troweling, and stucco spreading.

   Be patient and don't let it get to you if the first coat is rough. two or three is normal anyway. Would take someone really good to get it looking OK first trowel on.

   Too bad this is all about money and time. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   rbishop108 | Feb 21, 2004 03:41pm | #11

   That's a lot of unnecessary work, especially for something that's supposed to be quick and painless.

   ChamberTech 2000 is made specifically for parging into nasty old smokechambers, I'm sure it'll stick just fine on face brick.

   Butch, sorry about the dead link, try this:

   http://www.lindemannchimney.com/

   About halfway down, click a green button for homeowners,

   put in your zip code, (presumably to help find dealers in your area),

   Then click on, Start Browsing Our Catalog

   In the light blue box on the left, select "chemicals and mortars"

   Then at the bottom of the page, in red, click on mortars

   #1 on the page is Chambertech 2000.

   I can't say enough about how good this stuff works. I remember the days of mixing up a limey mix , sticking my head up into a smokechamber and trying to get it all covered so it would be firesafe. Stuff dropping in my eyes, hair, what a mess!

   Don't get me wrong, it's still a mess, but muuuuuuuuuch easier, and a better final solution.

   I would never use anything that has quikrete, or sakrete in it's name, they are synonymous with "homeowner quality", not professional . If I tried to lay brick with their "mortar", I'd have to screen the pebbles out!

                                                                             Rod

3. 
   Piffin | Feb 21, 2004 07:28pm | #12

   I wasn't saying not to use the Cahmber 2000. A product like that would be better for sure, but I was trying to respond in as positive a way as possible to someone planning to do the work NOW, instead of waiting for a product that he might have to special order. We all know what happens with special order products at the big box. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

4. 
   xMikeSmith | Feb 22, 2004 10:20pm | #16

   piffen .. wneh i started we'd buy Quickrete or Sackrete and juice it up with some portland.. it's reputation was schlock... most of the time if the job was  big enough we'd mix our own like Ian says..

   but... you should check out Quickrete nowadays... they've  got a whole stable of products.. as long as you buy  their correct product  for the intended purpose ,..... AND you supplier is properly handling and storing the material.. i have no problem using QuickCrete.. they've come a long ways , baby... but so have we... no ?Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

5. 
   Piffin | Feb 22, 2004 11:27pm | #17

   Last time I had Quickcrete was only about a year ago. Small job and all they had that week. It was still weak. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

6. 
   butch | Feb 22, 2004 01:46am | #14

   Piffin, had it right, I needed the product this morning .  Any way Its a done deal.

   Pictures at 10