here’s the deal….. i’ll loan you $10,000 at no interest for 8 months.
at the end of the 8 months you have to pay me the total amount back or you will start paying interest at whatever the prevailing rate is at that time… ( right now it’s 9% )
would you borrow the money ? what would you do with the money ?
what is the downside ? what is the upside ?
reason i ask is because every month i throw legitimate offers like this in the trash but i think there has got to be better things to do with it than shred it
what do you think ?
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Replies
Its interrest free money for 8 months . Thats about all it is in credit cards.
I use them all the time to fix up houses .
Lumber yard gives 30 days , 2 percent discount if bill paid by the 10th of the month.
Pay that bill with O credit card.
You can pay that bill with the next card that comes in the mail.
When you sell , close the loan at the bank , get paid by customer , what ever , pay off the loan paying no rates at all on that amount.
Some of those things have checks you can pay a plumber.
You can buy a new truck interrest free for 8 months then go to the bank or pay it off your self and let your money draw .
Tim
I frequently get offers for credit cards with zero interest for one year. A while back I took one and bought $5000 worth of stuff to work on my shop with... tile, flooring, plumbing and lighting fixtures. It came due recently and I rolled the balance over to another one, some deal. At the moment I have the cash to pay this off anytime and I'm happier keeping the cash in the bank and using their money. They are playing the odds that I will be unable to make the payoff and will owe a lot of interest. It could happen.
Watched a movie last night called "Maxed Out". Worth renting.
Exactly. Thats why they want to loan him money. Hes good credit . If he doesnt pay it back on time,good for them because he can pay it .
Just like you say, the trick is having the money ready at the time . That doesnt always happen and thats why they loan free money for a little while .
Tim
i have heard of people building spec homes this way, but i don't think it flies in todays real estate market.
i have done the same thing myself, use the zero % and keep the cash. i think it wise to be liquid just in case, plus if there is inflation, you are paying it off with inflated dollars, is that less than zero?
It depends on the fine print.
If it's from one of your credit cards, there are substantial risks being taken....meaning that it's entirely legal that the interest rate could soar overnight, to 36% or more!
Additionally, there is a one time fee up front that is charged, which is still small enough to take the loan if a low interest loan is needed.
If there was no other risk or set up fee involved, as you imply, I'd just take the money and let it ride in my checking account.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
i keep reading the fine print...
the one time fee is $75
so that's 0.008 % to borrow the money
with inflation and bank interest ( say 2% ) repay what ????? $10,000 8 months from now
with annual inflation at what ( not the gov't figures ) let's say 10% annual inflation
what's wrong with this scenario ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Theres better ones out there than that .
Mike, you probably have nothing to worry about. If they suddenly ratcheted up the interest rate, you could pay it off. You have no downside. The downside is very real for a poor guy like me. If I take that money and then miss a payment, on any of my debts or bills, or my credit score takes a dip for any reason, they can/will declare that offer void and immediately start the interest payment at whatever interest they want. I'd guess the minimum would be 18% but it probably would be 24% or higher. YOu have the ability to quickly pay off the loan, so there is no downside to you. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Mike
Do your "other" cards watch your credit history? They see you maxing out 1 card I think they might jump the rate. No worries if'n you pay off your cards every month.
Let it sit in a MM account or T Bills
3-5% free money. (before taxes)
Now if you want to double down in Nigerian futures....
"i see" said the blind carpenter, who picked up the hammer and saw.
with a money market savings account you can make about 3%, and if you borrow at 0.008% you are making 2.992%. if you can do enough volume it could be a great thing.
and thats not even mentioning the inflation. if only you could offer a service whereby all the prospective client had to do was sign his name, then you do all the paperwork and immediately hand him a check for say 1% of $10,000, or $1,000.
you keep the remaining $1,992 for administrative fees and the setting up of the legal corporation complete with paperwork, thereby getting all the volume you can handle.
i am a friggin genius, its a wonder i don't rule the world, i want a cut or at least i want it to be called the "segundo advance" on your interest free offer (minus one time fee) of a $10,000 line of credit!
now watch how SMSLAW, or some other poster who knows more than me (god knows there are some in here) jumps into this thread and explains why you can't do what i just described,
and that, boys and girls, is why i don't "rule the world"
Nothing wrong with the concept, although your math skills may need a little work:-)
You just need to think big. Get a loan for $10,000,000,000,000 and make 2% for eight months and you can rule the world!
yes well in my haste and excitement while brainstorming, i forgot how to add.
thank you for your post, i am very glad you joined the conversation.
one specific question please. is it legal or even feasible to draw up some kind of contract (temporary limited power of attorney type thing) to use someone elses zero interest credit card loan offer?
frinstance, dovetail doesn't want to do it, he has several reasons for not wanting to do it but bad credit or not wanting to use part of his credit limit are not the reasons?
could i present him with a legal conract guaranteeing him that i will pay the minimum on time, and the full balance owed when it is due. in exchange for him signing the contract, and agreeing to have the $10,000 credit in his name for one year i give him $100?
i then take the $10,000 and deposit in the 3.75% money market with electronic transfer (and proof) set up to make minimum payments, and balance in full before zero interest expires?
is that not one way to access the $10,000,000,000,000 @ 2% by turning the individuals into a group. wouldn't it be cool if we could wobble the credit companies! with B of A first on my list.
is it legal or even feasible to draw up some kind of contract (temporary limited power of attorney type thing) to use someone elses zero interest credit card loan offer?
Sounds dubious. If I'm dovetail, I'm not crazy about my credit depending on you. I get $100 if you do what you say you will, I owe $10,000 if you skip town. He's taking all the risk, you get most of the benefit.
yes thank you for posting, i thought so as well. i was just trying to come up with a way to do as you suggested and "borrow" an incredible amount of money to invest.
it occurs to me that there may be a system in place in parallel. as an analogy i like to use henry ford. for years i thought ford was such a genius for inventing the assembly line untill i realized by watching a show on the history channel about winchester.
ford was just the first to apply the system to automobile production, and ford was a bigger genius than i thought. he wasn't just an thinker or inventor, he was a businessman.
If you were a real genious like Ford, you would realize that the way to make money is to loan it - not borrow it. That's how he really got everybody's money - offering cars on credit.-T
If you were at all intelligent you'd realize you are not much of a business man and would find a different line of work.
now thats not very nice, i'm sure glad that post wasn't directed to me!
i will admit however to not being a very good businessman, i have lots of intelligence but it may be somewhat misdirected at times.
i find it enjoyable to brainstorm these ideas, i appreciate mike for starting the thread and you never know when the next "mooney wall" will be invented from the ideas these threads spark.
You know, you’re alright.<!----><!----><!---->
I hope you don't mind that I threw in my opinion; I've just seen a lot of good people get hurt borrowing money. There are, of course, exceptions to the rule. I believe Google was started on credit cards. It's just that the positive outcomes I know of regarding credit cards are far and few between compared to the negative ones.<!----><!---->
As for borrowing money in general, I just can't understand why people are always in such a hurry to go into debt. I know a lot of people borrow to start a business, but it's just not for me. According to his book: Running a Successful Construction Company by The Taunton Press (recommended to me here at breaktime), It's not for contractor David Gerstel either.<!----><!---->
I was at the bank today and saw the CD rates. At 8 months you can acquire interest at 3% - the highest they offer. If you borrow that money from a credit card company, you will also have a tremendous risk hanging over your head. Now say you loan that money to someone. You could probably make at least double that much - say from 6% to 8%. That's just for someone with reasonably good credit. <!----><!---->
Sure, if you don't have any money, borrowing some and putting it in a CD will make you a little something. However, if you're someone who does have some money, why not make double as much? If you loan it to someone who definitely has the means to pay you back, you will also be assuming much less risk that borrowing on credit cards.<!----><!---->
Like I said though, perhaps borrowing works for some people, I just don't think it would be the thing for me.<!----><!---->-T
Recently I head of somekind of scheme where credit ratings are "leased".IIRC the person needing the loan is somehow added to the credit report of the good credit rating. So that when a credit report is run the good one shows up.But the credit report lender is not liable for the person soing the reports.Don't remember the details as I has not interest and also althrough it was claimed safe it sounded too shaky..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I'm in the middle of a lawsuit right now where someone, supposedly with good credit, bought a house from someone facing foreclosure, at an inflated price, with an agreement to sell it back after a year. When the dust settled, the guy with bad credit is in bankruptcy, the house is about to be foreclosed, and, on behalf of the chapter 7 trustee, I sued the guy who used to have good credit. The only one with a chance at making a buck is me! This truly is a great country.
i knew i should have gone to law school!
1% of $10,000, or $1,000
Uh, duh, I must need more math classes????
edit PS: iz dat wye 'bama wun beeg inn NC?
Edited 5/27/2008 6:17 pm ET by junkhound
whoops, i missed a decimal, make that $100. sorry about that chief.
still though the idea works in that if you have a solid investment for more than the cost of the loan all you have to do is get sufficient volume.
is it legal to do that?
i will sign a contract for you to use my name, and $10,000 of my credit limit for $100 now.
maybe i should start phishing?
What are you tinking of doing with it ?
invest in some of my favorite stocks for 8 monthsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
That is one game I personally would not sit down to play. Thought about it, but I am just not of the right temperament.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I couldn't do it with stocks either. I stick with guaranteed returns and keep it liquid in case I have to pay it off quickly.
My wife has instructions to pay them all off if something happens to me, cause she will never figure out my system.
It works for me, but it's definitely not for everyone.
Mike,
The CC companies are basically gambling that you will not pay it back in time. Most of these offers have 0% for X months and then 12+% after the time is up. Read the fine print, most offers make the 12+% interest retroactive back to the day you took the cash if you do not pay on time. Also, the CC companies play games with your payment check. They will claim they did not receive it on time or it was one day late even though you sent it 2 weeks early.
With that said, you can play and win this game. If you do, make sure you have a way to electronically pay the CC before it is due. There are several electric methods, may sure you get a confirmation...
good idea......
<<<<<
With that said, you can play and win this game. If you do, make sure you have a way to electronically pay the CC before it is due. There are several electric methods, may sure you get a confirmation...
>>>>>>>Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Read the fine print, most offers make the 12+% interest retroactive back to the day you took the cash if you do not pay on time.
That has not been my experience with anything other than store cards. Every card I have used (and that is a lot) the intro rate was NOT retroactive.
I do agree with paying it online and getting confirmations of payments. That is a very important part of playing the game.
Edited 5/28/2008 10:06 pm ET by TomW
capital one online money market account 3.75%, no restrictions after the minimum $25,000 to open the account, in other words you can close the account and take the money any time you want. fine print says 7 days notice to withdraw, and they hold yer dough for the first 2 weeks.
you take the offers of zero interest, make the minimum payments ontime, don't charge anything else to those credit cards, and when it comes due (the zero interest ends) if you can't roll it over with another zero interest balance transfer, you withdraw the money and send them a check.
for all the headaches of setting it up and keeping track of it you make $375 per $10,000 invested per year. its not much money but where is the risk? its a liquid account if you forget to pay on time, or something else goes wrong you withdraw the money and pay the debt.
<G> That one is sitting on my desk, been contemplating it.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
well .. i will set up an electronic funds transfer.... probably thru my local bankMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
well .. i will set up an electronic funds transfer.... probably thru my local bank
I have most of the companies I pay bills to set up in my online bill pay. Credit card companies are all electronic, so if I'm hard pressed I can get the payment there in 2 or 3 days (less time really, but for them to register it). Online billpay means I can set up a payment 24/7.
And once or twice I've gone to a credit card's site and authorized a single payment. That is an instant payment, it counts as soon as you authorize it.
I've done the dancing credit card game a lot in the past, but you really have to keep on top of it or it will bite you in the ####.
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
I'd take the $10k, put it in a margin stock trading account.
I'd expect to earn at least 30% in the next 8 months on $10k, so with margin ... hopefully come out with $9k profit.
Regards,
Tim Ruttan
DO you have a secret we all should know?
I know a few people who have made a fortune on margin.
I also know a few who have lost everything. One of them lost his house and chain of convenience stores.
A secret? Buy low, sell high? Heh heh.
I like Warren Buffett's take on the psychology of earning money: "Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful."
It's a pretty fearful market out there, Robert. I'm feeling greedy.
The market has averaged 10%/year for 100 years. I think that a person who is actively involved in the market and has some experience (including the experience of losing money), should be able to earn much better than 10%. I think 30% over the next 8 months is possible. On (my) margin, multiply your earnings (or losses) by 3.
I see that Mike actually took $20k, so $60k in a margin account. It's certainly possible to lose the original $20k. But it's also certainly possible to make my predicted $18k profit or significantly more. Much, much more.
I was talking recently with a friend about individual investors who got caught in the Asset Backed Commercial Paper (ABCP) fallout. I was incredulous that they nearly lost everything for an investment with a projected return of about 4%.
4% a year?! To me, that's not worth the effort of filling out the paperwork.
Anyway...you could have invested in any semi-decent oil stock in the last 5 years and earned 25 to 50% a year, at least.
I'm not saying for sure that oil/gas/energy stocks are going to go up 30% in the next 8 months. But certain ones would be on my potential list, along with some financial stocks. And maybe Brazil. I don't think the US dollar is going to gain on any other currencies in the next 8 months, so keep foreign investments in mind.
And ETFs are fantastic. So many choices, but with stock-like liquidity and yet mutual fund diversification.
I could use the borrowed $20k, put it in a margin account so it's $60k, and buy a 2x leveraged ETF: $120k at work for me, all of it OPM - Other People's Money.
And it doesn't matter if the market goes up or down, there's long ETFs and short ETFs. You just gotta guess which direction it's gonna go. I'm being a bit humorous with that last statement, but there's a grain of truth there, too: that ability to short in a bear market wasn't easily available even 5 years ago.
The buffet table expands every year. Call me Mr. Creosote.
Regards,
Tim Ruttan
Tim I was talking to coworkers in july 07 about how i thought gold would go up, if i would have actually invested (gambled) my money, i would have made better than 50% in 6 months.
I have a close friend that was talking oil up two years ago, didn't get in on that either. i have to admit, i'm skeered!
just not in the position right now to devote the time to feel comfortable about investing i guess. i know i will have to do it sooner or later though, i have heard in here different peoples to read about, i think it was jeff buck mentioning harry dent, and i liked his pitch but still didn't subscribe.
As far as investing goes...here's my over-valued 2 cents:
We should be teaching retirement planning and investing basics in High School.
If you aren't investing for your retirement today...start yesterday. If you don't have a DeLorean with a flux capacitor, start today. Did I mention you should bite the bullet and start today?
You could spend endless hours learning about the market, but there's no empirical evidence that it will enhance your portfolio performance. 80% of mutual fund managers - professionals who spend their every working hour learning and thinking about the market - underperform the market. They get greedy at the wrong times, they get scared at the wrong times.
Learning to control the emotions (fear, greed) that impact your financial decisions might be the best advice I can think of. I will forever be learning this lesson. Because unfortunately, those two emotions are so basic, they're created by the part of our brain that was present 50 million years ago in our reptillian ancestors.
Don't beat yourself up over money you didn't make, money you lost, money you should have made, blah blah blah. Thinking about the negatives impacts future financial decisions. Studies show that psychopaths generally invest more wisely; their decisions are unhampered by emotions.
Invest like a woman. Female investors, on average, outperform male investors. They don't churn their portfolio as much. They don't think they're big swinging d!cks: "80% of the pros underperform, but I'll show them how smart I am!". Men think they can time the market. Women buy & hold.
Minimize your investment costs. Use a low-cost broker, buy & hold. Buy diversified assets, but not too many, as excessive portfolio diversity and churn increases your costs. Costs eat into returns.
For basic investing, I like ETFs. ETFs are like index mutual funds, except that they are more liquid because they trade like shares. They typically have extremely low Management Expense Ratios (MER).
You can buy American ETFs that represent almost any and every segment of domestic and foreign markets. Some represent very broad market segments (eg. S&P 500), some represent very narrow segments (eg. the price of a barrel of oil).
On one date each year, buy 3 to 10 ETFs you like, some broad, some specific, some domestic, some foreign. Buy at least 1 ETF that got the #### kicked out of it in the previous year. Be wary of last years best-performing ETFs. Notice I didn't say don't buy them - just be wary. For instance, oil's had a good run, and I think there's still money to be made. Gold's had a good run, but I think it's done for now. Just my opinion.
If you go to MSN or Yahoo or Google main finance pages, they'll have a section on ETFs where you can research them. Don't spend too much time thinking about it, there's more than 500 US ETFs to choose from, so it'll take time just to figure them out. Spend one day doing it. Pick'em on a Sunday, put the buy order in on the Monday.
Rebalance next year. There, you're done.
Of course I don't follow this advice. I invest the way I do because it amuses me as a hobby, and I'm willing to take extra-large risks in the hopes of extra-large returns.
I am a d!ck.
Regards,
Tim Ruttan
tim,
I agree with you-- I am also feeling greedy.
stephen
trim Butcher,
I did something like that in the late 80's. I started small with lots of stop orders and modest investments.. The broker I was using was giving me great advice and nearly every month I was making double digit returns.
The problem was my conservative nature caused me to increase my investment because the proven track record was so good!
I started out with $77,000 and a year and a half later I was approaching a million dollars..
Double didgit rates of return every single month!
Then Oct of 1987 came and in a couple of hours it was all gone.. Since I was on the margin I couldn't just hold and wait for it to come back..
Investing in the margin is a sure way to gamble away all your money..
Some people go to Vegas expecting to win big.. Me I know that those fancy hotels and life styles have to be paid for and they are paid for with the money they give away..
Frenchy,
I think the real risk of Margin is that it's too easy to get over leveraged and lose lots.
I don't know if another 1987 is around the corner, but i would still be reluctant to use borrowed money to buy on Margin.
Then again? I'm alos the guy who says that any young person with only a small nest egg would be insane to tie it up in any investment that would require a fee to get out early.......
Frenchy, in 2000 I lost six figures on the market overnight without being on margin.
I am aware of some of the risks.
But investing keeps me amused. And I tell myself that I've learned some lessons, and won't get caught again.
Maybe I have, maybe I haven't. Only time will tell.
And even with that blowout in 2000 and bad, fearful decisions that followed, over the past 11 years I've averaged 19% return. Not fantastic, but it's been increasing.
Margin investing increases your losses, but it also increases your gains. If you incur a loss, it's a bigger loss. If you gain, it's a bigger gain.
You made a mistake in your margin investing, but that doesn't mean that margin investing is always a losing proposition. It simply means you made a mistake.
Regards,
Tim Ruttan
"I'd take the $10k, put it in a margin stock trading account.I'd expect to earn at least 30% in the next 8 months on $10k, so with margin ... hopefully come out with $9k profit."How's that working out for you?With the margin call, you would probably be lucky to walk away with $9.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
You can borrow the money, put it in the bank for 7 months, and then pay it back.
But beware the fine print. Eg, with most credit cards cash advances aren't going to be interest-free (except perhaps for a balance transfer). These guys are in business to make money, and they're pretty darn good at it.
As for "better things", I have heard of folks heating their houses with junk mail.
LOL thats funny!
As Dan noted today in another thread , money is getting harder to get even for those that have had no problem getting it .
I probably posted I had three bank ballon loans come up for renewal at the same time . I owe my electrican and H@A guy more money than I wanted to turn loose of since nothing has sold. My other problem Ive had is he wont give me a bill. Never had that problem but its not a good one when he builds it up. I owed him for a new unit and a couple service calls . Every time I ask for a bill . He shows up and does the call with no bill. I call a month ago I guess and he sells me another new unit complete. . No bill and IM begging him for one . Nope , wont do it . My wife and I are clueless why he wont come get his money. I call him on two service calls after that and tell him I dont have enough money to pay him but if he will turn in his bill Ill go to the bank and get it . It will take a few days . Still no bill . I turn in the amount I think I should owe and add what I need . I get it off three loans . NP for the loan as IM well under 70 percent LTV. I signed the papers today and picked up three checks from them. This is the third week. If he had been hounding me I would have pulled a credit card .
Were gonna set up a line of credit . We just havent done it yet. Gonna have to do it now becasue I asked to day and they said the time now was about right after it goes to the overseers. Used to they didnt know about it till after I had the money so its time for other measures.
You might think about what you would do if you needed money fast and didnt have it . You might be the type that has it in accounts . I buy another house so I dont keep it on hand . Ive always known I can get it anytime so its never been a big deal till now . IM not going to be embarrased not being able to pay someone . Didnt happen for what he did . I still dont understand why he hasnt come got his money. He must trust me but I could have died last week in the hospital. He doesnt know that .
Tim
"I still dont understand why he hasnt come got his money. "because he doesn't need it yet - - if he had the $, likely he'd have to spend/fritter it on something/s he'd rather not - this way when he needs this lump (vacation, project, vehicle, etc) he'll ask you for it, and he knows you're an honorable man and good for it - much better than the bank, he probably doesn't have a savings account...I bet he has a plan..."there's enough for everyone"
"I bet he has a plan..."
I wish I knew what it was.
Tim
I still dont understand why he hasnt come got his money.
I think there's a very simple answer for that:
He's a bad businessman and hates keeping track of paperwork. He probably doesn't even know.
You better stay on top of things, or he could mess up your accounts good.-T
"You better stay on top of things, or he could mess up your accounts good."
Ive thought about that over 100 times. Ive worried his amount wont be right . Last time we talked he had just put in a unit and he was trying to scratch down on the back of somthing what he had done for me . The two units alone is 6 grand. He did electrical on the burnout and Id have to think how many sevice calls . About 5 or 6 and theres parts . Hes probably got materials I owe for on the house I dont know about .
Closing on the house might come before I get him paid . If that happens I dont think I can close. Not sure . Ive always brought my bills up on houses before closing . Ah surely I can talk him into comming by here and getting paid although hes never wanted it .
He pays his help and his material bills . I dont understand it and Ive never had this happen. Ive heard such on smaller stuff but not this much.
Tim
>I still dont understand why he hasnt come got his money.
So have your wife call or send him a note saying you're sick and have spent the money owed him. See if he comes running to your door then!
Scare him huh? She shoulda called him when I was in the hospital .
Seriously the boy has me puzzled. Ive got an old hunting buddy that works for him and Ive asked hm. He doesnt know why. A while back he was really worried about not getting paid on a job . He let her go 2 weeks and was sick over it .
Ive made two calls to him this afternoon and evening after I got home with the money from the bank. Left two messages . Nothing .
I dont wanna play poker with him.
Tim
He has classical fear of paperwork. My dad (attorney) had it big time -- would never send out bills until Mom forced him.
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite. --Bertrand Russell
He just called and asked what I wanted . He took a few minutes and came back and said 7800. Told him it wasnt enough. I didnt know exactly of course but I cold figgure better than that. Ended up 8600 and I said ok. He doesnt know what it is .
Tim
I did that using credit cards in 1992.
Paid to move two houses and remodeled them using primarily credit card money in the form of 0 interest balance transfer offers.
Cash advances often aren't covered under the deal , but I used one "sacrificial" card (the one with the lowest interest rate and zero fees)to take a cash advance to the max on and then used balance transfers to pay it off when due.
Just kept rolling the balls around to each new card in turn. Actually did invest some in a simple money market fund for a few months as well.
Finished that whole deal and the bank was appalled that I had used credit cards instead of a construction loan for the 8 month project until I pointed out I paid less in interest than they charged for a loan application fee.
Also bought a used truck with a $5000.00 credit card check that was a cash advance , time was 24 months at 2% then it jumped up. I simply paid it off in 23 months.
One thing to be careful of is watch your credit rating closely, after a certain point they get nervous about just what you are doing with so much money running through the credit cards and will definitely pounce on you if you miss a timely payment.
hmmmm.... it gets curiouser and curiouser , don't it /Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Yep I just opened a Chase Visa offer. 0% for 15 months if you keep current. Jumps to 8.99% after 15 months.
No cash advance and a 3% fee for balance transfer. Not an uncommon offer. I keep offers laying on my desk out of habit ever since the mid eighties when I damn near went belly up big time. One thing I did was have my computer literate kids set up a computer program that kept track of amount, card holder, due dates etc. Made it easy to check every week so I was on top of it all the time.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I'd start restoring my credit. :)
--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.net
See some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
I’m not the businessman you are, but I know 1 cardinal rule of money management: Unless it’s for a house or a car (and you better have a real good size down payment if it’s a car) – never, ever, ever borrow!
Are you aware of the relationship that’s formed when you borrow? You in effect become somewhat of a slave to your lender. You give them enormous control over your life. Why would you want to do that? Don’t make big promises (like I’ll pay back $10,000) and you’ll stay carefree.
Do you know what one of 3 major things are that affect your credit rating is now? The length of time that’s passed since you paid off your debt. Although I’m not certain, I’m not so sure that transferring the exact same amount will restore your credit score either.
However, do you know what one of the other 3 major things that affects your credit score is? The amount of money you owe compared to the amount of credit you have available. That’s right, if you have a $10,000 line of credit, any balance over $5,000 will bring your credit score down. What do you think is going to happen if you max out that $10,000 line of credit?
Besides all that, a business shouldn’t have debt, it should have capitol. $10,000 is going to put a dent in your equity. Is that a risk you want to put on your business at this time?
Of course, the other one of the 3 major things that affects your credit rating is late payment. If you so much as forget to return a library book (seriously, many libraries report to the credit bureau now), they will have an excuse to slap you with anywhere from 19% to 36% interest. Oh, so you return all of your library books do you? It might not matter. Often in the fine print they tell you they can raise the interest to any rate, at any time, for not any reason whatsoever.
It was only a few years ago the credit companies were about to go out of business, now the entire nation is in a recession because of a credit crisis. It’s history simply repeating itself. It reminds me of the way Henry Ford offered credit and fueled the great depression. Do you really think your going to beat them at their own game? They have people sitting at desks doing nothing but crunching numbers to prove you’re a risk. Credit score – ha! These guys practically invented the credit scoring system. Even if you pull it off at first, it’s only a matter of time before they get you.
Oh, I also have my own personal rule regarding money management: If you do borrow – never, ever, ever use credit cards! The best advice on this thread was to use those offers to keep your fireplace going.
Just my humble opinion. :)
-T
I could'nt do it! I would not have the ten grand 8 months later. Been down that credit card road in the past and am too scared to do it again. Once you get out you never wanna go back!!!!
I just burn them, Lou
If it were a legit offer I'd take the 10k and put it either in a CD or high interest savings account.
Even at todays rates thats 3% per year, not much, but free money is free money. Give it back
Mike, I've been doing that very thing for a little over six years now. I make anywhere from 3-6k a year from it depending on the offers, available interest rates and cash rewards programs. I almost never pay a fee to get cash and only do if I can make the fee back in interest within a month or two.
You are a little late to the game though. The offers aren't nearly as good as they use to be and savings interest rates are much less favorable.
If you decide to do it make sure you have a good plan to keep track of accounts and when the intro rates expire.
As far as credit scores, it's possible to do this and not hurt your score. Mine has never dipped below the mid 700's even while carrying 60k in 0% cc debt.
I would be interested in a more detailed account of your ventures in this area.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
This website http://www.mymoneyblog.com/how-to-make-money-from-0-apr-balance-transfers gives a good description of what I basically do.
I get a lot of 0% offers and only use those that have no transfer fee or a very low fee. I recently had an offer on a card that I had open but had a zero balance since the intro period had expired and I had paid it off. This offer had a 0% period of 15 months with a maximum transfer fee of 199.00. Since my limit n the card was 30k I tranferred 29,800 to another card that the 0% rate was expiring.
Keep in mind that you don't have to owe anything on a card to transfer a balance to it. I could have just as easily tranferred the roughly 30k to a card (let's say discover) with a zero balance and then have that discover send me a check for the credited amount. That way I have essentially gotten a cash advance, yet paid no cash advance fee.
You really have to read and understand the terms of each card thoroughly.
I also keep track of all the accounts using an online program called yodlee and also in ms money. The name of each account has the date that the into rate expires so I can see at a glance hen a card needs to be paid in full.
I also keep an eye out for promotional CD rates at banks. I just recenly had 4 $200.00 cd's @ %10 for 10 months. This was a promotion at a local bank if you opened a checking account. One account and the allowed me to open one CD for each SS# in my household so I got one for me, my wife, and my two kids, all with money that I had borrowed at 0%. Usually I just keep the money in online savings account that had been paying better than 5% but the rates have been ratcheting down recently so it's getting tough to make good returns with essentieally no risk.
Be happy to answer any questions.
Learn somthing here every day.
now you tell me, sheesh man why you holding out on us,
and how can you increase the volume to make more money? how can you tap into the people that might be willing, but don't have the time to accept the offers and then as you say keep track of the accounts?
if i was a money manager or accountant i would be running with that ball.
These money lenders are simply trying to make money. They're not your friends. After extensive research, they know that if they offer $10K @ 0% for 8 months to the target audience (you) , a certain number of people will accept the offer.
Of those who accept, most will borrow the full amount with the intention of paying it all back before the 8 months is up. Unfortunately, intentions aren't always enough. The credit people know this, and they exploit it to their advantage.
If you think can pay it all back before the time is up, then consider it. However, don't forget to factor in unknowns such as unemployment, illness, kids needing braces, injury, divorce, being sued etc. Most people don't, which is what these companies count on. Most people see a big screen TV (or in our case, a shop full of Festool) being "free" for a period of time, not the eventual bill.
Didn't this used to be called "buy now, pay later" ? or "no money down, easy credit terms"
toolman65
P.S. As another poster recommended, rent MAXED OUT. Makes the credit card companies look like drug dealers.
How about the 2 big boxes offering 12months no intrest on purchases over $299, $20k limit per card. Get the offers every few weeks. Guy could go a long way on that offer. Just check the statements each month. 21% intrest gets Ugly if it's overlooked.
Then dig up a 10% off coupon, throw it in the mix, & shopping @ the Blue & Orange starts looking better every day.
glen.. i get more tangible results dealing with my lumber yard and staying currentthe only things i buy from HD are things i can't find elsewhereMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
In the Big City we try & use the Lumber yards, on the Mt. House very little sub work, Bought the drywall & supplies @ the big boxes, along with the tile supplies, Plumbing trim material (which was a big ticket) along with electrical rough & trim materials. nails, tools & such.
The small stuff seems to add up fast. If the Big boxes will let me use their money for 12 months, what the Hay! At least around here some of the items @ the boxes is equal in cost to the Plumb & elect. supply houses around here. I can't figure out the lack of respect I get @ the supply houses around here when I go in & pay on the spot for items & they want to Stick it to you, because your not a regular.
The lumber yards up in the Mt. areas are a JOKE! If i remember right I needed 10 boxes of mud @ drywall, Cash sale, 2.5 times more the cost of what it cost @ the Big Orange. Was told if I did'nt like their price to go somewhere else. That was the last Dime I will ever give them!
"Was told if I did'nt like their price to go somewhere else. That was the last Dime I will ever give them!"LOL...and then they wonder where all their customers went! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
wow !...
around here when the big boxes moved in the existing yards determined thye could out service them... especially with knowledge for homeowners and service for contractors
we get good pricing and excellent service almost any yard we go to.. but i still give 99% of my business to one company ( i'm halfway between two of their yards )Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
They can and do out service them. But they cant carry their stock can they?
They cant sell with the loss leaders either .
I well understand why builders are loyal to the yards right up till you run out of lumber and need somthing else.
Tim
I dont shop at the big orange but I do it all the time at Lowes.
I have priced shopped then to death and I really cant get a better deal.
I got a 10 percent off card "per purchase" . 6 months no interrest , no pay.
I ordered just about everything to finish the inside including appliances.
Im supposed to go to closing in two weeks . Bank wont get a penny of that interrest. If they do , they do for a short time . Thats not a risk.
Tim
Mike Smith
I built my home with credit cards..
0% interest credit cards..
Only at the very end did I have trouble when a check mailed with plenty of time wasn't deposited untill after the due date. That cost me about $800 in interest.. (about 25% interest on a $30,000 limit)
Other than that my wife made sure all the payments were made so no penalties occured.. However if I were doing it still I would do electronic fund transfers to ensure no late fees occur.. at one point I had 3 cards each with credit limits over $30,000 at 0% interest for periods over one year.
I would roll over one credit card into another untill eventually I refinanced my home to wipe out the debt totally.. As soon as we paid them off we were flooded with more offers.. So instant interest free loans without bothering to fill out endless forms..
All you guys that are borrowing my credit can start sending me some interest checks now. My checking account is getting too damn low lately.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I'd take that offer. I'd buy a stock that's trading below value but pays a good dividend. At the end of the term I'd either pay you out of pocket from cash or sell the stock and pay you if it's in the money.
Tougher quetion: Why can't the sox win on the road?
Why can't the sox win on the road?
5-2 Sox in 13!
well, they beat the birds last nite..... but i went to bed after the 10thi took 20k @ 0% and opened a special portfolio...i'll show you where the money went next weekMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
i took 20k @ 0% and opened a special portfolio...i'll show you where the money went next week
Hmm...
View Image
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
good on you for sobering post
and that was in a high flying marketsounds like people are endorsing Charles Barkley rather than Warren Buffetunder the mattress is a better refuge
johnHarkins,
I don't think under the mattress is a safe bet either.. Any surplus cash should pay off debts first.. investing while paying interest on credit cards or home mortages is foolish. However if you really are in a cash surplus position the safest bet is with the big fortune 500 companies. The really big solid ones. I'd select tradional companies selling products immune from depressions and slow downs. Consumer products that will continue to be consumed.
Booring unexciting solid performers.. That will inflate in value with the coming run up of inflation.. which we are on the cusp of..
Edited 6/3/2008 1:28 pm ET by frenchy
Investing instead of paying off a mortgage is foolish?
My mortgage is 6%.
As I just mentioned, my investing return over the last 11 years is 19%.
Define "foolish". (That's a rhetorical question, really, you don't need to answer)
Regards,
Tim Ruttan
Anyone want to loan me $20k?
If someone loaned me $20k, I would put it in a margin account. Gives me $60k to play with, with 10% allowance before I get a margin call.
I like many of the stocks that Mike picked, but wow, that's a lot of transactions costs. Not to mention tracking that many stocks is too much work.
I'm putting the whole $60k on UYG, a double-leveraged ETF that represents US financial companies. Close today was $28.06/share.
Regards,
Tim Ruttan
tim.... the transaction cost was $2.95 ... for the SAall the rest were zero additional cost
when i sell ... same costi can have 3 portfolios with up to 50 stocks in each portfolio for a flat annual cost of $295unlimited tradescheck out foliofn.comMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I think you picked a good one there!
If you're playing this as a game, like playing Texas Hold'em with your buddies on Sat night, you are on the right track. You win a few, you loose a few, and you come back next payday.
If this money is valuable, go see a financial planner. You wouldn't build a house without a plan that you understood. You wouldn't even build a toolbox without a plan in mind. Get a professional plan. It doesn't matter if you're 20 or 70.
If you fail to plan, plan to fail.
but what about the comment made in previous posts of paid professionals underperforming? is this true? how do you know that your financial planner will be able to pick better stocks than the old blinfold and dartboard method?
i understand its good to have a plan, and i have been to see one and they have lots of good advice about lots of different things, but the subject of this hijack is stock picking. when the financial planner says invest X in stocks what or who do you recommend for stocks?
me i get skeered and stay in real estate where i consistently win and lose.
I lost serious money (well to me anyway, drop in the bucket to others here) as a result of using a professional. Professionals in money management are just like professionals in building, not all are worth a damn or honest.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
DON'T USE A PRO TO PICK STOCKS, USE A PRO TO HELP YOU DECIDE IF YOU SHOULD USE STOCKS, OR BONDS, OR REAL ESTATE, OR ANNUITIES, OR INSURANCE, or whatever else. They're just tools, like your pick-up or your hammer or your checkbook. You can't make it by selling your truck and buying 1,000 hammers. You need to select the right combination of tools.
Avoid the dis-honest or imcompetent advisors by using a big company like Fidelity, Ameriprise, Charles Schwab, Hartford, ING, Prudential. Or maybe your bank or Credit Union. Ask some friends to refer someone. I currently work for one of these, so I am a little biased.
They should try to get you to focus on some objectives (college tuition fund? daughters wedding fund? 2nd honeymoon? cabin fund? get out of debt? travel around the world? timeshare at Disney? classic car? retirement? inheritance for your kids? leave something for charity? take care of you or your wife in old age? grow the business? buy a new business? buy a farm? take care of the parents & in-laws? etc.) You can do it all with credit cards, but it will catch up to you sooner or later.
portfolio closing total today:
BOA (Trade)
$20,363.09
Symbol
Shares
Last Price
Day’s Gain %
Day’s Change
Mkt Value
Weight
Gain
Gain %
AAPL
10.71569
$189.43
2.29%
$4.24
$2,029.87
9.97%
$29.87
1.49%
BRK.B
1.35280
$4,355.00
0.11%
$5.00
$5,891.44
28.93%
($108.53)
(1.81%)
EIX
19.28898
$52.69
0.30%
$0.16
$1,016.34
4.99%
$16.34
1.63%
EXC
11.52712
$89.69
2.44%
$2.14
$1,033.87
5.08%
$33.87
3.39%
FE
12.82495
$78.95
0.52%
$0.41
$1,012.53
4.97%
$12.53
1.25%
GGB
41.75831
$51.48
7.25%
$3.48
$2,149.72
10.56%
$149.72
7.49%
PBR
30.58719
$68.53
4.79%
$3.13
$2,096.14
10.29%
$96.14
4.81%
RIO
26.43742
$38.71
3.98%
$1.48
$1,023.39
5.03%
$23.39
2.34%
SA
45.83791
$21.98
0.37%
$0.08
$1,007.52
4.95%
$1.62
0.16%
SU
30.88794
$67.13
3.74%
$2.42
$2,073.51
10.18%
$73.51
3.68%
TAP
17.36020
$59.26
1.59%
$0.93
$1,028.77
5.05%
$28.76
2.88%
Print
Total: 11 Securities
$20,363.09
100.00%
$357.21
1.79%
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 6/5/2008 5:04 pm ET by MikeSmith
You planning on riding the train until a month prior to the evil-interest kicks in?jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
unless something untoward occurs.........i plan on selling in Januarywe'll see how that works out, huh ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Worst case would be you're out $20k, but that is highly unlikely. They might go down, but they won't completely bottom out. Wonder if the new president will have an effect on the markets (between the election and prior to his taking office)?
jt8
"If we don't put effort into creating what we want, we must then put effort into coping with what we have." --EPNIA
JohnT8
If you look through history you'll note that if the democrats win the white house the stock market goes up an average of 710 points per year in office while the stock market goes up an average of only 176 points per year in office under the republicans.
Those numbers came direct from the DOW's web site and are valid since Ford Left office.
i think its a coincidence. i don't think a sitting president has much to do with the economy while he is in office. (whew that was a close one, if just a few votes went the other way i might have had to say she).
i think for the most part the wheels of the economy turn slowly and the sitting presidents effect is after he leaves office, except for bush who was able to fork it up before he left. mellon farming cork soaker anyway.
clinton's good economy was the result of economic policies put into play by reagan.
segundo,
It doesn't work that way,
The president sets the tone and is capable of turning the best set up into mush Look at Bush jr. for an example.. Yes Clinton benefitted from previous set up but Bush sr's not Reagans.. Reagan spent too much beating the Soviet Union.
When Reqagan took office our debt to GDP ratio was at 31% (the lowest since WW2) When he left office it was at 77% Bush more or less marked time but did a good thing when he raised our taxes.. That put the nation in a strong economic position . Clinton dropped the GDP % from 77% to 58% and as of 2006 Bush jr. had raised it back to 67%
all of those numbers are at WhiteHouse.Gov.. to verify..
Well, I bet oil stock has gone up in the last 7 years more than it ever has in all of history - not that I necessarily like the reason why.-T
Mike,
CMG on 6-3 low of $89.00. About $95 today, Let's see where this goes?
EP also in the Green today. Wish I could spend more time tracking, but were having a rough time finding extra time!
Edited 6/5/2008 10:18 pm by G80104
cmg.......mmmmmmmmm.....GOODMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, have you ever looked at NIU?
how did it do today mike?
i don't know..... let's take a look
can't get in... but i think it was down about $100 from yesterday
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 6/6/2008 10:23 pm ET by MikeSmith
Bad day for all!
yeah i knew that, i was just wondering how bad it was, especially for mike. if only he had waited just a couple of days to place that buy order.
i have heard many times before the experts counsel not to try to time the market, but from my inexperienced viewpoint it seems timing is everything.
If it worked to time the market it would go up/down before you trade anyway. In fact, it does, based on the available knowledge. It's just when unavailable knowledge becomes available that you get sudden swings. (Well, then and when the lemmings are running.)(So it may seem reasonable to time things based on some lemming index, but you have to believe that everyone else is doing the same, so that gets invalidated too.)(Where timing makes sense is with individual small stocks: It's possible for an individual investor to be better informed on one than the big guys, resulting in a timing opportunity. In many cases these opportunity windows are months or even years, before someone notices the stock.)
It is an ironic habit of human beings to run faster when we have lost our way. --Rollo May
my little girl plays soccer with another little girl whose dad is an investment manager.
john told me he has 11 employees watching computer screens all the time while wall street is trading. the simplified version of how he makes money according to his explanation to me is that he will call a major holding and tell them he is withdrawing money. (the example he used was ford) his guys will then watch the screens, and at the right time, put the money back in.
by the way john's firm historically has a 30% return (although that is a two year old quote) and only a $500,000 minimum to get in.
basically he said to me not only do they "time" the market, but they actually have a hand in creating the timing by the large amount of money they play with. (he handles many of the autoworkers union investments)
What he does is done over and over again by bigger fish and on a bigger scale than he does it I would warrant.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
yes that was also part of the message he gave to me when i was asking about investments, he was just one of many playing the same game, and that lots of them are very good at predicting what will happen by watching, hence the 11 full time guys with puter screens.
imagine you are a day trader but part of a team of day traders working collectively. sounds like fun to me.
like the kid says on the ad, about renting the clown with his investment gains,...
" i really underestimated the creepiness"Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
i just look at it as a game, i don't see a moral issue, so i am not creeped out.
i love to compete. always have, i don't have to win but i do have to give a good acount of myself.
did you listen to the radio show, from this american life, NPR. i loved it, i guess i am just to fascinated to be creeped out.
no,no,no.... the kid takes his ill-gotten gains and rents a clown..... the clown creeps him outit's just an add..... nothing deep like nprMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
in another thread i started on forclosures being up someone posted this link. this is what i was asking if you had listened to.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1242
i was fascinated by it, great stuff.
here's the closing quotes for today.....AAPL 10.71569 $180.81 (2.60%) ($4.83) $1,937.50 9.86% ($62.50) (3.12%)
BRK.B 1.35280 $4,220.00 (0.12%) ($5.00) $5,708.82 29.04% ($291.16) (4.85%)
EIX 19.28898 $52.54 (0.08%) ($0.04) $1,013.44 5.16% $13.44 1.34%
EXC 11.52712 $87.57 (1.43%) ($1.27) $1,009.43 5.14% $9.43 0.94%
FE 12.82495 $77.52 (1.34%) ($1.05) $994.19 5.06% ($5.81) (0.58%)
GGB 41.75831 $48.15 (3.43%) ($1.71) $2,010.66 10.23% $10.66 0.53%
PBR 30.58719 $66.18 (0.17%) ($0.11) $2,024.26 10.30% $24.26 1.21%
RIO 26.43742 $34.44 (2.30%) ($0.81) $910.50 4.62% ($89.50) (8.95%)
SA 45.83791 $21.54 (2.09%) ($0.46) $987.35 5.02% ($18.55) (1.84%)
SU 30.88794 $67.28 1.86% $1.23 $2,078.14 10.57% $78.14 3.91%
TAP 17.36020 $56.62 (1.91%) ($1.10) $982.93 5.00% ($17.07) (1.71%)
Total: 11 Securities $19,657.23 100.00% ($348.64) (1.74%)so.... down $348....most of which is Berkshire hathaway......but i gotta think Warren Buffet has got my backMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,Great thread,,,,,, as always.You are one sharp guy.But,,,,no pictures??Best of luckHarry
thank you
What I like about Warren Buffet?
Dairy Queen!
No better place to spend your money on a Hot Day!
Part of the Hathaway Group.
I have just found thios thread and agreed with all you say until you get to a big buy on financials. I think they have a long way to fall yet. I'll take my margin account in some commodities like RJI
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
They are a lot scarry, a friend bought 1000 shares of bac, because of the dividend at $36/share, man he's upside down right now. He is hoping they don't reduce dividend!
Bac of America will survive, but the stock is getting hammered along with the guilty ones. I sold out of it lat Nov at about $45, having bought at 42
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
TrimButcher,
Assuming that you can do that (19% return) for 5 years you have exceeded the ability of 95% of fund managers. These are professionals who have staff of people doing the grunt work for them and they devote their full attention to the market.. Most of the rest of us have occasional moments during the week when we glance at our stocks and try to note the trend..
I did all my diligence prior to my investment.. including doing paper trades for an extended period of time and doing deep research on individual stocks.. In the end I took the bath from the unexpected market plunge..
22 years ago, knowing that I needed a safety net and something for retirement I invested with the big boys.. I bought the DOW (diamonds) figuring that I wouldn't get rich but I'd at least avoid risk and stay ahead of inflation..
Ten years ago I diversified by buying REITS and five years ago I bought the NASDAX.
My Portfolio is well above most of my contemporaries and above that of my fellow workers. Luckily for me I sold my REITS prior to realestate taking a nose dive.
However Nothing I've invested in has made me as much return as my investment in my home..
Over the decades I've owned realestate it has made me literally millions of dollars..
Stocks you must have the full price to buy or risk everything. Realestate with modest down payment you can control assests many times it's priceand should the market take a dive you simply retain the property untill market returns to more normal pricing..
Fundamentally the population of America is growing.. it's well over twice as many people as when I was born yet we haven't gained twice as many states.. that means demand has more than doubled. Plus it is inflation proof!
close... but my feeling about boats is the same as cows
why own a cow when i can get the milk for free ?
ok.... placed the order today: here it is.....
Apple AAPL $2K
Bershire Hathaway B BRK.B $6K
Edison intl EIX $1K
Excelon Corp EXC $1K
First Energy Corp FE $1K
Gerdau S A ADR GGB $2K
Petroleo Brasileiro SA PBR $2K
Compania Vale Do Rio RIO $1K
Suncor Energy SU $2K
Molson Coors Brewing TAP $1K
also:
Seabridge Gold SA $1K
that portfolio has a total of $20k... let's see what tomorrow brings
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 6/4/2008 9:29 am ET by MikeSmith
CMG is down, a trusted source tells me it's going up.
Also EP could be in for a large gain in about 6 months, free advice & that's what it's worth!
i added it 3 times, and $19,000 each time.
i guess we already lost $1,000?
geesh,,,,, easy come ... easy goMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
its ok, i had a little math problem in this thread of my own.
ok.. i edited it and added in the SA i had left off the listMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
So what is your portfolio worth at the 24 hour mark? :)
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
i think i'm down $30..... should i sell now ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
i had my doubts about that excelon right from the beginning.
He left out the investment at Atlantic City.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Hey, thanks for posting your portfolio. This could be very educational. I’ve been thinking about investing in the stock market for a while now, but I just don’t know enough about it yet to do it intelligently.<!----><!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
Have you been following these stocks lately in the Wall Street Journal or something? How did you go about selecting your stocks?<!----><!---->-T
For any of you guys who make substantial charitable contributions, here's a trick: Throw darts to pick stocks (or use whatever other algorithm you like). Buy 6-12 diverse stocks, $500-1K each. Sit on them for at least 6 months, maybe 12, maybe 18.Then (best time is near end of the year) examine them and sort out the winners, losers, stay-the-samers. Contribute the biggest winners to your charities and take the charitable writeoff for the current value of the stock (no capital gains tax). Sell the losers (that you've owned long enough) and take the capital loss on your taxes (if you haven't used your allowance for the year). Sit on the samers for another 6-12 months to see if they move. (Eventually unload the stuff that goes nowhere.)With this scheme the only way you don't come out ahead is if the entire market takes a bath. Doesn't require active management, just a check once or twice a year. Not a big swinger but several hundred dollars saved each year.
It is an ironic habit of human beings to run faster when we have lost our way. --Rollo May
i picked my best performers from some of my other portfolios... figgered if they were doing ok in this market .... they might continue to do okMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
So, how's that working out for ya??
Corporation: n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. --Ambrose Bierce
how do ya think ?
little did i know the republicans would tank the market soon as they saw my deficit spending planMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I was kinda thinking it was a bad time to invest ... especially on the margin.
Corporation: n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. --Ambrose Bierce
Mike,
can you explain to me about this Folio thing of which you speak?
Particularly buying fractional shares of BRK A
i already understand BRK B is what--? a non voting share worth approx. 1/33 of a BRK A If you have the time of course--and please explain it as if I have an IQ of about 80( that's probably spotting me about 10 points-but i will deal with it,LOL-----I work with what I have got)
thanks,
stephen
stephen....here's the linkhttps://www.foliofn.com/index.jsp folio investing ( the new site....same as the old site ).... they pool purchases and they about 3000 stocks in a "window" Â
they also have a bunch of pre-selected "folios"....like "latin america"...
or "aerospace"
anyways... you pay a monthly or annual fee.... and you can make many "window" trades at no cost , buying or selling
also.... suppose you want to invest $50 ?you deposit it with them & go to your account and select the stocks you want to buyyou can buy shares... or you cqn buy a dollar amountso you might buy $30 worth of BRK.A and $20 of GMCthey place your window order at 10 am & 2 pm.... you buy or sell at market at those times
or, there might be a stop loss order , in which case, if the stock moved too far from your order, they will cancel the order and you haqve to try again at the next "window time "they have a very good explanation of all ther costs and servicesi've been with them since about 2000.... i'll never go back to a brokeragei used brokers from '69 until i got into Folio in 2000.... i paid them more in commissions than i ever made in the marketyou can click on an alphabetical listing of all their stocksMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 10/31/2008 12:37 pm ET by MikeSmith
Tougher quetion: Why can't the sox win on the road?the bull pen keeps blowing leads...If the pitching can catch up to the offense they wiil be hard to beat....
.
"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
.
.
.
If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
mebbe they'll start asking why tampa bay can't win on the road ?
go sox !Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
A buddy of mine built his house using credit cards. A year prior to starting the house he got about a dozen cards and used each of them. He paid off the balances each month. Every one of the cards increased his limit.
He already had his two acre lot. He had the basement excavated and we did the concrete/masonry work. He used every friend and favor he had for carpentry, plumbing, electrical, roofing etc... His father and two brothers had a cabinetshop at one time and did the finish work themselves. He always paid for material using those credit cards. He paid off one using another.
Just before his final inspection he put his old home on the market. It took almost a year to sell it. He was really sweating it after four months. When it finally sold he paid off the credit cards and had money for landscaping and the additional things that a new house needs.
He has a nice home that is completely paid for. I asked him if he would do it again and he said "NO!" There was too much stress with juggling the credit card balances and the house payment for his old house. I thought he was crazy when he initially described his plan. Two years later, he had a great home and it was paid for and he paid 0% in interest.
It took me 23 years to pay for my home and with interest I paid for it three times.
lee, thanks for the story
hey, are you comming to Peachfest in Indiana ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I am going to pass on the Peachfest. I have a full schedule (mostly nonsense) for the summer. My pond needs dredging and I have to get things prepped before the trackhoe shows up. Too bad too, I am only 200 miles from the Indy border.
Edited 5/31/2008 3:24 pm ET by LeeLamb
"I am going to pass on the Peachfest."don't say pass - just say 'probably not' and then decide when the time gets close -
D"there's enough for everyone"
The guy didn't gain an entire house from using those cards. He could have sold his house first, rented something and had the cash in the bank to pay cash for everything. That idea, along with all the other cash saving ideas (sweat equity) would produce the same effect without the risk. 100k construction loan for a year would only cost about 10k. So, the guys saved 10k at the most by juggling the credit cards. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Blue,
Not true. He also got the loan!
Something that isn't easy for a do-it-yourselfer to do.. Banks want sign offs and approavals plus plenty of deadlines and payment schedules that do not conform to do-it-yourselfer's schedules..
The way he did it (and I did it) was build first and get bank approval later.
Yes there is some risk on us doing it this way but if you think about it there should be..
Frenchy...it is true...because I said so. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Yall think you're Bob?
Joe H
That's funny. Stop picking on me...errr, I mean Bob.... Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Dont ya just hate people like that when they sell and dont pay ya back?
Brother thought everyone should help him so we all did . same deal.
Tim
Oh, I wasn't complaining about him. I am/was happy for him. He had a house full of kids and was a real good guy. Everyone who helped him wanted to. I'd do it again, although I am older now and would not be able to safely do everything I had done then. It was risky for him to do what he did, but he came out okay. It actually was fun, knowing he had beat the system a little and we had helped him do it.
My mortgage was for 30 years and I knew right up front what I was going to pay. I paid it off early but most of the interest was on the front end so I did not save much by doing that. I would have been better off to make extra payments at the beginning of the loan, but I didn't have the money then.
Depends on the amount of loan but on prices here I had always heard paying 100 dollars extra per moth cut the loan distance in half.
Tim
I had a buddy who doubled-up on his payments and paid-off his 20 year mortgage in 7 1/2 years. No kids, wife worked.
I am glad my daughters got good educations. I am happy that all of us led interesting lives.
Mike,
On one of my credit card accounts I just discovered I can use a transfer check that has a 3% fee and 0 interest for 18 months, not as a balance transfer to pay off another card but to deposit into my business checking account.
This offer comes from the same card company that I use for my business credit card and on which I carry a small running balance at the usual credit card interest rate.
Does it make sense to borrow from the card account at zero and the 3% fee, deposit that money in my business account and use the money to pay on the running balance and free up the money I would normally use to pay n the card account and put it to use in other ways.
Essentially using zero % percent money from the cards to pay the cards own interest bill.
yes it makes perfect sense, as long as you save money with the 3% fee on the check, which of course you will because the card carrying interest has to be higher than that.
i would add another card from a different company or the same company as long as it is a different account so i could keep track of it.
once i pulled the wrong card out of my wallet and cheated myself out of the zero interest offer, because you can't use it for anything else or you lose the zero, you immediatley are charged interest on the new debit to your account, and they don't wipe off the new debit until all the zero interest balance is gone.
i don't even understand my own explanation, but I know what to do, after you transfer the balance with the check don't use the account any more until it is paid off, thereby ensuring you get the zero interest you paid the 3% transfer fee for.
thats why nobody messes with these things, its too easy to get confused.
Hmm, gonna have to reread the fine print. My understanding is that this set of checks doesn't have any string attached to it about using the card being tied to a raise in the 0% offer rate. I am in a position where I have probably the max cards and credit lines I can carry without tipping into having my credit score be negatively affected. Right now it is high and I don't want to be bringing it down.
I have a lot of card credit available , but only use the one card and keep the small balance on it and in effect pay a little to keep it active and working as that seems to be something the CC and credit bureaus like to see. Plus it makes tracking business expenses easy to do . I just had a hard time believing the card company would make an offer that borrow their own money at a low rate to pay to their high rate.
This offer seems only to apply to my business card , not a personal card. Laughing here right now.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
well there you go, just use another credit account instead, you don't have to open another account. you might be able to switch it to business but what difference does it make?
Doesn't really. I went ahead and wrote one smallish check , perhaps I will ratchet it up a bit before this offer expires.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
usually when i read the fine print , it says the cash advance cannot be used to pay down an existing balance on THEIR cardbut.. the only caveat i'd have would be the olde saw...... if it sounds too good to be true >>>>>>>>>Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Yep , it does say that , but it doesn't say I can't deposit the money into my checking account and then use my checking account to make payments to them on my balance due . I have reread the fine print and I think the hook is in their allocation of payments.If I understand it correctly this offer sets up a whole new line item on the billing statement.
However the Fee is considered a finance charge , not covered under grace period rules and interest on the fee is the standard rate. As I said , I am testing the waters and will receive a statement detailing all this before the offer expires and I have more checks I can use if it looks like it works for me.
Really just plying a bit here is all.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
You don't have to read the fine print. I'll explain. Everything you do will result in the worst possible experience unless you do exactly the one thing that will be the least. If you do it any other way, you are screwed and you better pay everything back immediately...and pay a little more than you think. If you pay the balance, there will be interest earned by the time the posting is credited. That tiny bit of interest would be enough to retroactivley trigger a 36% interest charge, with penalties. I'm not exaggeratting. Do a credit card sux search on google and read the stories. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I will ride this until my next statement and see what occurs. i am not going to get hurt here enough to even cause me to blink.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Remember, buddy, the booger is in the woodpile.....
what he is saying is correct...
if you use the card for anything else the interest accrues on the whold balance.
Also applies if you have a balance on the card and cash one of thise 'cheques', plus you get hit with the 3% fee.
It can be tricky.
"Coming to recognize you are wrong is like coming to recognize you are sick. You feel bad long before you admit you have any of the symptoms and certianly long efore you are willing to take your medicine." -Charlton Heston.
Can't tell you anything other than the fine print doesn't say that . I wrote a check for a whopping $2000. Current balance on that card is just about that . I will get a hit for 3% fee for the check I wrote ($60). After one month I will see what happens. They screw me I pay the whole thing off and learn a lesson. Not going to cost me an arm and leg to learn the lesson. Heck I am not even going to pay off the whole balance I owe now , I want to see how this game plays out. If I am right I can keep using the card running up the balance and they pay the majority of the interest.
I show the interest payment as a cost of business, all the way around.
So I am writing off money they are giving me to pay off their interest. Fine Print: Actions that you may perform that will affect this offer.
""If your account is 3 or more days past due twice within any 12 billing periods , we may increase your APR's immediately to the default APR previously disclosed to you.""
That rate was 29% last i checked.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
More I looked at my last 4 billings and payment dates. 3 day average between the day I mailed the check and the day it was posted. I just got a bill 2 days ago, June 10th. Due date is July 4, I will mail a payment out on sturday as that day is when I generally pay my bills.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
OK, let us know.
and read the fine, fine print...tooo
"Coming to recognize you are wrong is like coming to recognize you are sick. You feel bad long before you admit you have any of the symptoms and certianly long efore you are willing to take your medicine." -Charlton Heston.
I will.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
If you continue to use the card, the new charges will be charged interest at the "new purchases" rate. The interest free loan goes to the back of the ledger. Any money you pay in monthly pays off the interest free money first. Then, if your credit changes for any reason, they could, at their whim, change the entire deal. In fact, if you read closely, they can change the entire deal, at any time, for any reason they want. They don't need a reason! I'm not telling you they will change the deal...I'm tellin you they legally CAN change the deal. If we tried to write a contract like that, it would be tossed out as illegal. I fault the republicans for running legislation through that allowed that garbage. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Yes of course the new purchases will be charged against the new purchases rate. That is what the agreement states.
What difference does that make? I am still borrowing money at zero % interest for 18 months and paying for the privilege by paying a 3% fee.
And according to what is written in the fine print the only action on my part that will change that rate is what I posted.
Under no circumstances would I pay 18mo. 0% money back any sooner than I needed two ( say 17 months and 1 week just to be safe) I will post again in a month and tell you what happens then.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
here's friday's closing ...............AAPL 10.71569 $172.37 (0.51%) ($0.89) $1,847.06 9.43% ($152.94) (7.65%)
BRK.B 1.35280 $4,247.00 0.52% $22.00 $5,745.34 29.33% ($254.64) (4.24%)
EIX 19.28898 $52.84 1.38% $0.72 $1,019.23 5.20% $19.23 1.92%
EXC 11.52712 $89.75 2.34% $2.05 $1,034.56 5.28% $34.56 3.46%
FE 12.82495 $79.79 1.99% $1.56 $1,023.30 5.22% $23.30 2.33%
GGB 41.75831 $48.58 0.41% $0.20 $2,028.62 10.36% $28.62 1.43%
PBR 30.58719 $67.94 2.15% $1.43 $2,078.09 10.61% $78.09 3.90%
RIO 26.43742 $34.57 0.14% $0.05 $913.94 4.67% ($86.06) (8.61%)
SA 45.83791 $20.15 (3.08%) ($0.64) $923.63 4.71% ($82.27) (8.18%)
SU 30.88794 $63.93 (1.01%) ($0.65) $1,974.67 10.08% ($25.33) (1.27%)
TAP 17.36020 $57.72 (0.43%) ($0.25) $1,002.03 5.11% $2.03 0.20%
Total: 11 Securities $19,590.48 100.00% ($415.40) (2.08%)
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
so we are down 2.08% but it was a rough week on wall street.
so not too bad? certainly has a good chance to go right back up and a few might take off. not bad mike.
I wanted to Thank You for being willing to post updates on this.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Buy SIRI. She's gonna take off.. one of these days.
got downgraded yest., if you owned it you lost your shirt!
Yeah... I lost a few shirts already ;) I plan to get 'em back soon. and then some. If I had any money left I'd buy down again today... but I got nothin'..
SIRI aint for the faint of heart.
I thought the merger was almost done, then that stupid call that it was overvcalued, oh well.
here's Friday's close ( 6/20/08 )...
AAPL
10.71569
$175.27
(3.11%)
($5.63)
$1,878.14
9.73%
($121.86)
(6.09%)
BRK.B
1.35280
$4,154.00
(0.22%)
($9.00)
$5,619.53
29.10%
($380.45)
(6.34%)
EIX
19.28898
$51.40
(2.37%)
($1.25)
$991.45
5.13%
($8.55)
(0.85%)
EXC
11.52712
$89.57
(0.97%)
($0.88)
$1,032.48
5.35%
$32.48
3.25%
FE
12.82495
$80.94
(0.78%)
($0.64)
$1,038.05
5.38%
$38.05
3.81%
GGB
83.51662
$24.22
(53.01%)
($27.32)
$2,022.77
10.48%
$22.77
1.14%
PBR
30.58719
$65.27
(2.07%)
($1.38)
$1,996.43
10.34%
($3.57)
(0.18%)
RIO
26.43742
$34.81
(3.52%)
($1.27)
$920.29
4.76%
($79.71)
(7.97%)
SA
45.83791
$21.15
2.32%
$0.48
$969.47
5.02%
($36.43)
(3.62%)
SU
30.88794
$60.94
(1.04%)
($0.64)
$1,882.31
9.75%
($117.69)
(5.88%)
TAP
17.36020
$55.14
(1.73%)
($0.97)
$957.24
4.96%
($42.76)
(4.28%)
Print
Total: 11 Securities
$19,308.17
100.00%
($697.71)
(3.49%)
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
20/20 hindsite, rotten time to have bought!
"20/20 hindsite, rotten time to have bought!"
How would he have known?
Ill bet he will say its far from over though.
Tim
Edited 6/20/2008 6:20 pm by Mooney
Unfortuneatly not any way to tell.
Except, I always sold mine last week of may and bought in after sept 1.
Saves alot of angst during the summer.
DW quit her job and we decided to cash in some stocks . It had went down 18 percent in four months . It went lower after we got our money but theres no way to tell. We just took it when we needed it .
I could have sold houses a year ago a lot better than now too but I didnt know. Shoulda sold out 2 years ago.
Tim
While I'm talking to you, I have an opportunity to buy 3- 4 unit buildings
1@ 44, !@42 and 1 at 20. Rents are 500/mth+ utilities
Some work on all buildings. Taxs ave $200/yr.
Should I make offer?
Well , thats 2,000 per building per month in rents with a payment in the 400 dollar range @ 15 yrs pay off . I dont know how much work or money but if I could handle that , Id jump unless I didnt like where its at.
Thats pretty well american dream investing . Beats anything I can do at this time . I havent seen um but the numbers are pretty if you can rent at least 80 percent .
Tim
I'm thinking seriously about it. Not in the best section of town, but seems to have stabilized.
If it all checks out , Id want them all.
That would be a living paid for here.
Tim
I'm thinking!
We were talking the other day on here about concrete homes under ground homes.
With steel and concrete being what it is people think its out of range so they dont think about it . However if they figgure it , it spells out somthing much different . Of course underground is not for every one and not every place either. But for those that have the place and the climate Ill say it might be the answer to the future. Here in the hills of this state it would provide open daylight entrys . The weather here is normally 30 to 100 degrees with several colder nights. There wouldnt be a need for air conditioning here since basements stay at 68 degrees. Mine does. A little wood stove would break the chill at night in the dead of winter. But people arent thinking .
I made up a plan for a carp to retire owning a trailer court that made more than his wages at no cost from his pocket but no one bit . They werent thinking .
A plan like you have described could be a living from now on after its paid off . Better be thinking about it . <G> Not saying its for you but its worth the calculations .
Tim
Tim, I may have the money in Sept., just got to stall them along until then!
Even my DW appears to be for it! I never thought that would happen.
Wimmin like security.
She could handle that with out you bein around . Wouldnt be easy but if it was paid for it would be a cake walk. She can hire the likes of you boy. <G>
DW says I cant handle 2, 20s but she could afford to hire a couple .
Tim .
Edited 6/21/2008 5:10 pm by Mooney
yeah..... whadda ya gonna do ?
bought some fannie mae & freddie mac on monday in another account... tuesday it was down 20%... today it's up 30%
anyways here's the holdings for the parlay account as of close of trading today,7/18.......
AAPL
10.71569
$165.15
(3.88%)
($6.66)
$1,769.70
9.87%
($230.30)
(11.52%)
BRK.B
1.35280
$3,914.00
1.27%
$49.00
$5,294.86
29.54%
($705.12)
(11.75%)
EIX
19.28898
$49.80
1.06%
$0.52
$960.59
5.36%
($39.41)
(3.94%)
EXC
11.52712
$83.42
1.48%
$1.22
$961.59
5.36%
($38.41)
(3.84%)
FE
12.82495
$76.69
(0.39%)
($0.30)
$983.55
5.49%
($16.45)
(1.65%)
GGB
83.51662
$21.04
0.05%
$0.01
$1,757.19
9.80%
($242.81)
(12.14%)
PBR
30.58719
$58.06
0.07%
$0.04
$1,775.89
9.91%
($224.11)
(11.21%)
RIO
26.43742
$29.13
0.59%
$0.17
$770.12
4.30%
($229.88)
(22.99%)
SA
45.83791
$21.14
(1.45%)
($0.31)
$969.01
5.41%
($36.89)
(3.67%)
SU
30.88794
$54.62
0.94%
$0.51
$1,687.10
9.41%
($312.90)
(15.65%)
TAP
17.36020
$57.29
(0.83%)
($0.48)
$994.57
5.55%
($5.43)
(0.54%)
Print
Total: 11 Securities
$17,924.17
100.00%
($2,081.71)
(10.41%)
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
should have sold it all monday and bought Well fargo! up 21%
One more should have could have, GM up 40% this week, take it and run from this one!
Watch SIRI and XM. Should pop real soon. Hopefully. I want my money back! and then some.
Looking like you'll be breathing easier by the end of this week now.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
my stop loss was buying FNM & FRE in another accountMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
LOL, That is the way you guerrila fighters are - always popping up someplace else.;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
lottsa dead guerillasMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
today's close..... this is dreary ....
Symbol
Shares
Last Price
Day’s Gain %
Day’s Change
Mkt Value
Weight
Gain
Gain %
AAPL
10.71569
$162.12
1.94%
$3.09
$1,737.23
10.13%
($262.77)
(13.14%)
BRK.B
1.35280
$3,770.00
(1.98%)
($76.00)
$5,100.06
29.75%
($899.92)
(15.00%)
EIX
19.28898
$47.67
(0.75%)
($0.36)
$919.51
5.36%
($80.49)
(8.05%)
EXC
11.52712
$80.67
(0.69%)
($0.56)
$929.89
5.42%
($70.11)
(7.01%)
FE
12.82495
$72.22
(1.78%)
($1.31)
$926.22
5.40%
($73.78)
(7.38%)
GGB
83.51662
$19.47
(1.02%)
($0.20)
$1,626.07
9.48%
($373.93)
(18.70%)
PBR
30.58719
$53.10
(0.45%)
($0.24)
$1,624.18
9.47%
($375.82)
(18.79%)
RIO
26.43742
$27.78
0.47%
$0.13
$734.43
4.29%
($265.57)
(26.56%)
SA
45.83791
$19.85
3.28%
$0.63
$909.88
5.31%
($96.02)
(9.55%)
SU
30.88794
$53.90
3.06%
$1.60
$1,664.86
9.71%
($335.14)
(16.76%)
TAP
17.36020
$56.08
(0.85%)
($0.48)
$973.56
5.68%
($26.44)
(2.64%)
Print
Total: 11 Securities
$17,145.88
100.00%
($2,860.00)
(14.30%)
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Yes it is.I manage my wife's portfolio more conservatively and mine is pretty aggressive.So far this year, she is up 3-4% while mine is down that same percentage.Problem on mine is that every time I analyze any of the companies I own to decide if I should dump it, I conclude that if I had more money, it is bargain shopping time.A lot is pure market psychology. In an environment of fear, even the quality stuff is getting hammered. it is earnings season and every single thing I own is coming back with increased earnings and beating the street estimates and getting rewarded with a drop in stock price.???????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
here's the close for 8/1/08
Symbol
Shares
Last Price
Day’s Gain %
Day’s Change
Mkt Value
Weight
Gain
Gain %
AAPL
10.71569
$156.66
(1.44%)
($2.29)
$1,678.72
9.68%
($321.28)
(16.06%)
BRK.B
1.35280
$3,887.00
1.51%
$58.00
$5,258.33
30.32%
($741.64)
(12.36%)
EIX
19.41152
$46.80
(3.19%)
($1.54)
$908.46
5.24%
($97.42)
(9.69%)
EXC
11.52712
$75.44
(4.04%)
($3.18)
$869.61
5.01%
($130.39)
(13.04%)
FE
12.82495
$71.49
(2.80%)
($2.06)
$916.86
5.29%
($83.14)
(8.31%)
GGB
83.51662
$21.07
(3.22%)
($0.70)
$1,759.70
10.15%
($240.30)
(12.02%)
PBR
30.58719
$54.46
(2.59%)
($1.45)
$1,665.78
9.60%
($334.22)
(16.71%)
RIO
26.43742
$28.28
(5.83%)
($1.75)
$747.65
4.30%
($252.35)
(25.23%)
SA
45.83791
$19.87
0.05%
$0.01
$910.80
5.25%
($95.10)
(9.45%)
SU
30.88794
$54.50
0.00%
$0.00
$1,683.39
9.71%
($316.61)
(15.83%)
TAP
17.36020
$54.41
0.82%
$0.44
$944.57
5.45%
($55.43)
(5.54%)
Print
Total: 11 Securities
$17,343.86
100.00%
($2,667.90)
(13.33%)
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
One of the most oft talked subjects on the financial news lately is "have we found the bottom yet?"I think we have a better idea when this earnings season gets by us.If you want a speculative play, look at EMC. A LOT of calls have been picked up recently and earnings report is already past for them, so something else is in the wind that somebody knows about.Speculation that either CISCO is ready to swallow them up, or that they are doing another deal with their own holdings.I don't do much tech so I'm staying out of it.I won last couple of weeks on CALM. Growing profits on egg distributer forced a short squeeze.I just got into TRN for a decent piece on the way up, but missed the first jump up .I sold CHK at 65 a while back and just bought it back today at 50 in time for its next run up. Be there!But almost EVERYTHING ELSE I have is wallowing in the mire!;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I sold CHK at 65 a while back and just bought it back today at 50 in time for its next run up. Be there!
Good for you Paul.
I think my kid will be getting a few checks on that. He opened a bunch of folks at around 25 I think.[email protected]
I am foggy this morning, but I think it was about 30-31 that I got in.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Sounds like you are doing quite well with your picks and movements.
It's interesting to read these threads.[email protected]
Well, I am disappointed with the overall market right now, but I have to remind myself that market psychology is a strange animal that can't be trained or tamed. In this thread, Mike just happened to decide he wanted to get on and take a ride just as the animal decided to go swimming in cold water.I do believe that there is always a bull market someplace and I have a detectives mind for sniffing out some good stuff. My one handicap tho is that I am very conservative or hesitant. I can't tell you how many times I find what I think is a good buy and time to get in on something, then I wait to sleep on it for a few days while I over-analyse and miss the first 8-10% jump. I need more experience or the right person teaching me to develope the confidence to follow through more often.Anyways, this year to date, the DW portfolio is up five and a half percent while mine is down 5.3%.Most years, hers gains about 17-18 while I have been making 20-40.Long term views on the market are healthy for sanity too. I remember that last year, I was down in early summer, but finished the year up almost 40%.So this will all correct itself, just takes time.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Anyways, this year to date, the DW portfolio is up five and a half percent while mine is down 5.3%.
Most years, hers gains about 17-18 while I have been making 20-40.
I'd have to guess that you are doing better than a lot of folks.
For some reason I had believed that this was something fairly new that you were doing; perhaps because of some thread of yours a ways back about putting down the tools a bit.
How is that going anyway? Have you found other than physical work to replace your income?
Eric[email protected]
Take this week for instance - a previous customer had a national magazine coming by to do a shoot for some future issue. I designed the addition and the kitchen renovation that figures prominently, so I volunteered to be there to answer questions, help out, and get my name printed.While hanging out for three days there, I had my laptop along and was working on another design on CAD, and spent a couple hours writing an article for Andy E in Decks magazine ( reminds me, I have to finalize it and send it to him today)I also happened to be there and available when the HOs discovered a few small handyman type items they needed done for some extra change. Had I not been there, those thing might never have gotten done.I have another design to get done for a gal I met thru here that has been a no hurry kind of deal, but I need to get going on it. I have a lot of delays because my painter BIL has been finding a lot of rot on houses his crew is painting, so I think 60% of my time this spring has been on minor rot repair of casings and siding. giving the Multimaster a good workout.So overall, I am happy with things. A lot less stress without managing the big jobs and crews, less concern about money collections, and mentally, emotionally, physically much easier work, which was my goal in revamping my business, to reduce stress. Good for health, I think.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Glad to hear things are working out.
Can you give us a hint on the gist of the Deck article?[email protected]
attaching posts for railings to a deck over living space
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
well... i'll tell you true.... being at Peachfest was way more fun than watching these dogs....
here's today's close...
Symbol
Shares
Last Price
Day’s Gain %
Day’s Change
Mkt Value
Weight
Gain
Gain %
AAPL
10.71569
$175.74
(2.00%)
($3.58)
$1,883.18
11.31%
($116.82)
(5.84%)
BRK.B
1.35280
$3,999.99
2.75%
$106.99
$5,411.19
32.51%
($588.79)
(9.81%)
EIX
19.41152
$44.73
(0.02%)
($0.01)
$868.28
5.22%
($137.60)
(13.68%)
EXC
11.52712
$73.39
(0.42%)
($0.31)
$845.98
5.08%
($154.02)
(15.40%)
FE
12.82495
$71.51
1.66%
$1.17
$917.11
5.51%
($82.89)
(8.29%)
GGB
83.51662
$17.32
(3.13%)
($0.56)
$1,446.51
8.69%
($553.49)
(27.67%)
PBR
30.58719
$48.72
(3.87%)
($1.96)
$1,490.21
8.95%
($509.79)
(25.49%)
RIO
26.43742
$25.34
(2.24%)
($0.58)
$669.92
4.02%
($330.08)
(33.01%)
SA
45.83791
$15.10
(4.37%)
($0.69)
$692.15
4.16%
($313.75)
(31.19%)
SU
30.88794
$50.48
(4.18%)
($2.20)
$1,559.22
9.37%
($440.78)
(22.04%)
TAP
17.36020
$49.62
0.26%
$0.13
$861.41
5.18%
($138.59)
(13.86%)
Print
Total: 11 Securities
$16,645.16
100.00%
($3,366.60)
(16.82
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I feel for you.At least I have the luxury of being able to wait long enough on certain picks, while having some stop loss orders getting me about 12-14% in cash right now while things keep falling. the Dollar has been creeping up since the FED went on a hold diet on rates which is good, but the commodities are taking a hit for it. For me it helps having one bright star for consolation. CALMand in DW portfolio, CMIGotta look at some bright stars to keep your spirits up.What else have you got for salve?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
well, lobster was $6.99 /lb at the market ......
guess what's for dinner ?
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 8/15/2008 6:54 pm ET by MikeSmith
the fishermen here are getting depressed that the price they get is going down. That don't cut it with eh fuel going up.I made a big pot of clam lingune with mushrooms and onions the other day. Everything but the pasta nodles grown on island.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks for buying that CHK.
They need some more money to spread around over the Haynesville Shale.
"Never pick a fight with an old man. If he can't beat you he will just kill you." Steinbeck
That ain't money. It's nat gas seeds!;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
just keep spreading them
we love it.
"Never pick a fight with an old man. If he can't beat you he will just kill you." Steinbeck
The impact of the weakened economy has been greater than anticipated!
Time for this guy to exit stage left!
It is an ulcerous environment, for sure.I admit my portfolios are all down. Everything that got stopped out and converted to cash the past couple weeks went into silver about two weeks ago and gold this morning.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Were cashing in the chips, can't think of a better time to do!
Bought my MCD about 4-5 years ago @ $14, $64 today. Don't think anybody is going to be making much on anything in the next 3 quarters.
Will hold my EP cause if I sell today it will be at a loss. Other then that were stuffing the mattress!
Unloaded the CMG 6months ago, best move we have made in the bast 5 years!
Betting metals take another run!
"Will hold my EP cause if I sell today it will be at a loss. "I have a lot of charts that look that way. Several where the stock has lost about 40% or so, but that I limited losses to 25% either through t5rading in and out, or stop loss orders. I have a lot in metals of all kinds now, like NUE and MT as well as the precious ones.There are lots of articles by those in the know making a good case that bankers have manipulated gold and silver artificially low, knowing they can buy more and watch it double or triple soon, to save their own balance sheets. This is a world wide phenomenon right now. There are no fundamental reasons for precious metal to be trading this low, and the dollar has been artificially propped up so they can trade dollars for gold before it all comes apart.i'm doing the same as much as I can.The stocks I am keeping are strong dividend payers, like KMP, PWE, so while the price per share may be volatile, the investment is good.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Keep in mind that over the next several months you should be doing a "house-cleaning" and selling at a loss stocks that are of dubious value. The goal is to offset any capital gains plus use most of your $3000 excess capital loss deduction before the end of the year.The other thing to observe is that it makes no more sense (actually less) to hold onto a stock where you'll lose a dollar per share vs one where you'll gain a dollar per share. The question you should ask is: How likely is it that this stock will appreciate (at an acceptable rate) from where it is NOW. What you paid for it originally is irrelevant (except emotionally).
There is no absurdity that human beings will not resort to in order to defend another absurdity. -- Cicero
Just hoping that an energy stock like EP will be able to ward off the present state of the ecomony. If it was anything other then an energy stock, it would have been in the garage sale we held today!
"be doing a "house-cleaning" and selling at a loss stocks that are of dubious value."Why is anybody still holding any with 'dubious value"?The time for cleaning those out was nearly a year ago
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Things that weren't dubious become dubious sometimes. And roughly the last 3 months of the year is a good time to look at your capital gains situation and see what can be done to balance it out before Dec 31.
There is no absurdity that human beings will not resort to in order to defend another absurdity. -- Cicero
OK, You are talking re-balancing in general, rather than this specific situation.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yeah. In this specific situation you gotta do a thumb suck on whether the markets will bounce back soon, and how. But, generally, "timing" the market is nigh to impossible.
There is no absurdity that human beings will not resort to in order to defend another absurdity. -- Cicero
haven't got a clue..... but...
my portfolio is UP from yesterdayMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Though I'll have to confess that I bought Morgan Stanley yesterday at 17 and sold it today at 30. (My order to buy AIG at 1.75 never executed.)
There is no absurdity that human beings will not resort to in order to defend another absurdity. -- Cicero
Nice play Dan
Yeah, should have invested more, but I wanted keep it in the "fun money" range (in case I guessed wrong), so I only cleared a few hundred.
There is no absurdity that human beings will not resort to in order to defend another absurdity. -- Cicero
I tried to make the move, but couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger.
i rebalanced the portfolio this am..... sold the su and bought some more brk.b
i think the brk.b went up 8%......but the brk.a went up 14%
can never figger out wch way to go
Symbol
Shares
Last Price
Day’s Gain %
Day’s Change
Mkt Value
Weight
Gain
Gain %
AAPL
10.71569
$140.91
5.09%
$6.82
$1,509.95
9.14%
($490.05)
(24.50%)
BRK.B
1.67254
$4,595.00
8.12%
$345.00
$7,685.32
46.54%
$270.35
3.65%
EIX
19.41152
$40.04
0.05%
$0.02
$777.24
4.71%
($228.64)
(22.73%)
EXC
11.61801
$67.94
6.24%
$3.99
$789.33
4.78%
($216.43)
(21.52%)
FE
12.92444
$68.93
3.53%
$2.35
$890.88
5.40%
($116.17)
(11.54%)
GGB
84.83669
$14.22
11.79%
$1.50
$1,206.38
7.31%
($812.10)
(40.23%)
PBR
30.58719
$47.32
19.80%
$7.82
$1,447.39
8.77%
($552.61)
(27.63%)
RIO
26.43742
$23.76
15.56%
$3.20
$628.15
3.80%
($371.85)
(37.18%)
SA
45.83791
$16.26
(7.14%)
($1.25)
$745.32
4.51%
($260.58)
(25.90%)
TAP
17.43316
$47.76
(1.87%)
($0.91)
$832.61
5.04%
($170.86)
(17.03%)
Print
Total: 10 Securities
$16,512.56
100.00%
($2,948.95)
(15.15%)
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
GGB and a LOT of others had a nice lift yesterday from the actions in DC. Is this showing at end of day closing results I presume?I'm still working to grasp all the meaning of this, but I fear much of it is just rolling the problems forward.But, like they say - it beats the alternative.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
those are close quotesalso picked uo some fannie & freddie in a different portfolioMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
This is the roller coaster ride of a lifetime.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I had t use Wiki to find the words for the scenario this last weeks events remind me of. ""At 1 p.m. on Friday, October 25, several leading Wall Street bankers met to find a solution to the panic and chaos on the trading floor. The meeting included Thomas W. Lamont, acting head of Morgan Bank; Albert Wiggin, head of the Chase National Bank; and Charles E. Mitchell, president of the National City Bank. They chose Richard Whitney, vice president of the Exchange, to act on their behalf. With the bankers' financial resources behind him, Whitney placed a bid to purchase a large block of shares in U.S. Steel at a price well above the current market. As amazed traders watched, Whitney then placed similar bids on other "blue chip" stocks. This tactic was similar to a tactic that ended the Panic of 1907, and succeeded in halting the slide that day. In this case, however, the respite was only temporary.""
Of course we now know just how temporary and futile that attempt was. As shown in another quote: ""“ Anyone who bought stocks in mid-1929 and held onto them saw most of his or her adult life pass by before getting back to even. â€â€”Richard M. Salsma"" As I have stated and you well know I am a real dunce about financial matters when it comes to the market . But I have to wonder.....
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
That is what is nagging at me. There were several false rallies following the 29 crash, This current action seems to have similarities to things other governments have done in history just before major failings occoured, and some of this action may be simply rolling it all forward. There is a good rationale for what they are doing, and it may pay off, and there really is no other choice that looks acceptable, so here we are...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
& I don't think this ride is even close to being over!
Egg-zactly!want yours scrambled or sunny side up?
Let the chef know.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Investment Advice 2009
Subject: Investment tips for 2009Investment tips for 2009 for all of you with any money left, be aware of the next expected mergers so that you can get in on the ground floor and make some BIG bucks. Watch for these consolidations in 2009. 1.) Hale Business Systems, Mary Kay Cosmetics, Fuller Brush, and W. R. Grace Co. Will merge and become: Hale, Mary, Fuller, Grace. 2.) PolyGram Records, Warner Bros., and Zesta Crackers join forces and become: Poly, Warner Cracker. 3.) 3M will merge with Goodyear and become: MMMGood. 4. Zippo Manufacturing, Audi Motors, Dofasco, and Dakota Mining will merge and become: ZipAudiDoDa 5. FedEx is expected to join its competitor, UPS, and become: FedUP. 6. Fairchild Electronics and Honeywell Computers will become: Fairwell Honeychild. 7. Grey Poupon and Docker Pants are expected to become: PouponPants. 8. Knotts Berry Farm and the National Organization of Women will become: Knott NOW! And finally 9. Victoria 's Secret and Smith & Wesson will merge under the new name: TittyTittyBang Bang
"Fairwell Honeychild" is at least 36 years old.
There is no absurdity that human beings will not resort to in order to defend another absurdity. -- Cicero
yeah.... go ahead..... laugh , clown , laughMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
hey Mike - why don't you cash out and I'll match that amount and we'll start a failed bank together - then we'll split the bailout money 50/50"there's enough for everyone"
hmmmmmm....... now that has possibilities... got any catchy names ?
like Silverado ......
or locally.... Davisville Credit Union....or Jefferson S&L Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
here's the weekly close.....
Symbol
Shares
Last Price
Day’s Gain %
Day’s Change
Mkt Value
Weight
Gain
Gain %
AAPL
10.71569
$128.24
(2.80%)
($3.69)
$1,374.18
8.62%
($625.82)
(31.29%)
BRK.B
1.67254
$4,425.00
(0.34%)
($15.00)
$7,400.99
46.41%
($13.99)
(0.19%)
EIX
19.41152
$40.09
(0.25%)
($0.10)
$778.21
4.88%
($227.67)
(22.63%)
EXC
11.61801
$67.16
(1.80%)
($1.23)
$780.27
4.89%
($225.49)
(22.42%)
FE
12.92444
$68.64
(0.49%)
($0.34)
$887.13
5.56%
($119.92)
(11.91%)
GGB
84.83669
$12.53
(5.22%)
($0.69)
$1,063.00
6.67%
($955.48)
(47.34%)
PBR
30.58719
$46.56
(3.64%)
($1.76)
$1,424.14
8.93%
($575.86)
(28.79%)
RIO
26.43742
$20.89
(6.15%)
($1.37)
$552.28
3.47%
($447.72)
(44.77%)
SA
45.83791
$19.15
2.96%
$0.55
$877.80
5.50%
($128.10)
(12.74%)
TAP
17.43316
$46.41
0.30%
$0.14
$809.07
5.07%
($194.40)
(19.37%)
Print
Total: 10 Securities
$15,947.07
100.00%
($3,514.45)
(18.06%)
not too bad..... i think BRK is going to eventually carry the day
and ....... most of the money i lost in another portfolio from buying FNM & FRE has been restored by buying more FNM & FRE
what didn't make sense at $10.... became a real bargain at 25 cents ?????
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I've lost track... when do you bail out and pay off the loan before getting hit with the interest?
jt8
february... i have to bail in januaryMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
And you don't have any inclination to bail now while you're ahead?
jt8
i'm not aheadMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
cough, cough, .... ahem....http://clearstation.etrade.com/cgi-bin/details?Symbol=brk.b&Refer=http://clearstation.etrade.com/cgi-bin/details%3fSymbol%3dPWEnot bad so far
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
i've been moving almost everything into BRK.... A & B
with Folio it cost me nothing to move and I can buy fractional shares ( like $50 worth of BRK.A )
I had to take some losses on some of the things i ditched to raise the funds.. but i think BRK is as good a place to park it as any in these uncertain timesMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Tip I got today!
DPZ
It's at the bottom, can only go up or out!
But were still on the side line looking in & there's some killer deals if you know where to look.
One more WEN, (that was a $60 stock at one time).
I would guess both will double in 6 months.
i get the feeling a lot of things are going to double.... can't begin to guess which onesMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I will guess for you, just don't pick them!
CNBC is having a contest for those that are too poor to get in the market. $500000 first prize!!!!!!!!!!
Last 2 times they had the contest, I was in the top 10%, now if I could just pull the trigger>G<
I haven't been tracking you close enough to know if this is up or down more from last week.I did think of you a couple days ago, when I heard a comment that Fannie and freddie buys now were a fools game - that IF the fix goers through, they will see a quick bounce and that anybody with smarts will use that opportunity to get out.
I don't follow them so I don't know.I do think you are right on BRK. The man is a value vulture with the cash to make it work.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Mike is a failing bank!;)He is leveraging borrowed money to invest in non-performing assets - just like Fannie and Freddie.He still needs to be paying somebody a bonus and somebody else a campaign donation before he gets in line for the bailout funding though.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
How else you gonna hide the tears?Thinking seriously about moving a larger chunk into SLV, GLD and CEF
gotta sleep on it.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
have you been watching Fannie & Freddie ?Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
No - I can't tread that close to the edge of sanity.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Wish I bought a little Gold on Monday, nice jump in the last few.
Got a small amount of Platinum, missed the Boat in Feb 08. but its still flat.
One other missed one, General Mills (GIS) take a look at the 6 month chart, I think when things get tough on Wall Street , sales of Froot Loops & Captian Crunch skyrocket.
By the way what was Cap'n Crunch's first name?
Mister?as in Mr Captain Crunch?;)Yeah, that gold buy was the best timing play I ever made.I don't do too much consumer oriented stuff, because the consumer is too finicky and unpredictable - not rational in my mind. with the adage in mind that you should not invest in something that you do not understand, I stay away from things like Crocs, high heels, and I-Pods.But that GIS does look like a strong part of that 'flight to safety' that is moving money.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
James T ?
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
His full name was Captain Horatio Magellan Crunch.
Now you know the rest of the story.
My next question would be, is now a good time to buy Fannie Freddie or AGI STOCK?
i got a bunch i could sell yaMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Some of my best Dogs were mutts when I got them!
Hope lifes treating you well!
yeah....life is good....the market sucks....
but ..... my portfolio never amounted to anything before....now it's less than it used to amount toMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Not to worry, Bush is going to bail out all the rich people so that they don't lose any $$.
Oh wait, you're probably not one of the rich folks, so I guess you're screwed.
jt8
One other missed one, General Mills (GIS) take a look at the 6 month chart, I think when things get tough on Wall Street , sales of Froot Loops & Captian Crunch skyrocket.
Dammit man, Froot Loops is a Kellogs product and Captian Crunch is a Quaker product, get your cereals strait man!
Doug
I never was a big breakfast guy, now brunch, that's good!
I took a look at each of these, mike.Good solid safe team to play with in volatile times. Don't worry about a three week decline, you have time on your hands. A couple might have been a might expensive buy points is all.
If you like the utes, I might replace one of them with ABB.most of these have a dividend, don't they?
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i think the only flyer was the SA..... trying to get a play on molybdenum
the others are the best performers from my other portfoliosMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
FCX has moly mines
and gold
and copperFor steel I have MT
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I guess I'd be afraid to recommend my best flyers right now, they seem so expensive re PE I wonder how much higher they can go - so I have set some close stop loss orders.POT, MON, ISRGBTW, can you do stops in that folioFN type basket?
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here's the home page...looks like a $3 charge for limitshttps://www.foliofn.com/servlets/ProcessAction?identifier=default_home&click1=Home
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Good thread, you've got me thinkin'...
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I don't know who puts their basic portfolios together, but the basic materials one is a great group.
Sort of an ETF that you can rebalance and adjust yourself
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they come up with rebalances and changes every so often... i don't always go along with themif i had simply bought nothing but Berkshire and held... my bottom line would be far superior to what it is nowbut what's the fun in that ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Is there an index fund that follows Berkshire Hathaway?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
BRK is a holding company that owns parts of so many other companies that it functions much like a fund itself but with fewer rules governing it.
For instance, a mutual fund is limited in what percentage of a company it can own, but Buffet can buy as much as he negotiates for. You are not the only one who has had the thought though...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.invest.stocks/browse_thread/thread/fd477b2be1d7291a/bf6af08443da4b77i'm not a fan of Buffet, but his clients are well served. I you want a piece of his action, buy BRK.B
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I understand what BRK is, but I'm guessing that there are some pretty big costs to tapping in to Buffet's genius. He didn't get to #2 (or wherever he is on the Forbes list now) by charging pennies for management.I would assume, with SEC filings and other information out there, one could track what he is doing with his clients money. Also, from what I understand, he likes the long view with investments so it might not matter much if you're a few weeks behind him on all trades.Maybe I'm over-complicating this.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Part of what turns me off to Buffet is that he has now become a phenom and he knows it.
So he can buy up what he wants of a stock, then let it be known that he is buy9ing in.Everybody and their pet dog then says, "Hey, Buffet's buying it so I want in too, at any price!", and the run-up starts.
So yes, buying a few weeks behind him is too late.He is a value investor and good at it. he will share it with you buy simply selling you shares. Couldn't be simpler if you want value investments.
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That's a good point. I'm certainly not the first to think of hitching on to his coat tails.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
i have both the brk.a & the brk.bthe .b has been outperforming the .a latelyi can buy $10 worth of brk if i want with no penalty for buying fractional sharesMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Something for your thoughts.http://www.smartmoney.com/smartmoney-magazine/index.cfm?story=july2008-berkshire-hathawayNot a good week anyplace out there though
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Now may be the time to buy more.
"Never pick a fight with an old man. If he can't beat you he will just kill you." Steinbeck
asking myself that about a lot of stuff on sale right now. I got stopped out of a couple and have cash to put in play.
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I think I would wait a while if I were you. We just passed a technical stopping point around11000, with no others in site until 10k.
I still remember the old adage about selling june1 and buying Sept1.
It does look like a lot of stock is on sale though.
US steal,X, has been doing well as has Nucor.
Yeah, that old, "Sell in may and go away"While Mike borrowed in June in time for the swoon!Sorry Mike.But I was tempted to take some off last summer and was rewarded by seeing it up almost every week after it recovered from the initial dip early summer last year.I will probably be on the sidelines with this cash for at least a week though
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paul... it's all monopoly money , ain't it ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Piffen-- i think your analysis of buffet is a little off. since his favorite holding period is " forever", what you allude to is of very, very small long term impact. If buffet was in and out of things-- yes you would have a valid criticism what he buys--stays bought----and i think he has pointed out that since he intends to hold---" forever"--- that in -effect he doesn't particularly care what happens to the share price immediately after he buys somethingplus--- you just gotta like a guy who says that he likes" to buy businesses so simple an idiot could run them---because sure enough---someday one will!"
stephen
well.. I wuz in Charlotte playing with the grandsons.. so I misssed posting last Friday's close...
how about today's close ( 7/1/08 ) ????
AAPL
10.71569
$174.68
4.32%
$7.24
$1,871.82
9.75%
($128.18)
(6.41%)
BRK.B
1.35280
$3,999.00
(0.32%)
($13.00)
$5,409.85
28.17%
($590.13)
(9.84%)
EIX
19.28898
$51.51
0.25%
$0.13
$993.58
5.17%
($6.42)
(0.64%)
EXC
11.52712
$90.35
0.43%
$0.39
$1,041.48
5.42%
$41.48
4.15%
FE
12.82495
$82.63
0.36%
$0.30
$1,059.73
5.52%
$59.73
5.97%
GGB
83.51662
$24.10
0.37%
$0.09
$2,012.75
10.48%
$12.75
0.64%
PBR
30.58719
$70.24
(0.83%)
($0.59)
$2,148.44
11.19%
$148.44
7.42%
RIO
26.43742
$34.50
(3.69%)
($1.32)
$912.09
4.76%
($87.91)
(8.79%)
SA
45.83791
$22.40
1.82%
$0.40
$1,026.77
5.35%
$20.87
2.07%
SU
30.88794
$57.22
(1.55%)
($0.90)
$1,767.41
9.20%
($232.59)
(11.63%)
TAP
17.36020
$55.23
1.66%
$0.90
$958.80
4.99%
($41.20)
(4.12%)
Print
Total: 11 Securities
$19,202.71
100.00%
($803.17)
(4.01%)
down 4%.....Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I liked the consistency of friday numbers. Traders that influence prices do some different things at end of day and end of week than other times.It is possible you posted these numbers at the low of the year.Let's hope so.Have you committed to the full year with this money or do you have a max loss you will tolerate in this play?
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i think i have to close it out in late jan or early feb .... or let it ride and come up with the $20K from someplace elseMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
OK, that is the time line, but I was asking about the risk/return ratio. How much are you interested in losing?I know winning is the goal, but I like to assess downside risk and know how low I am willing to ride an investment before I ever buy. Some are golden that I will hold till the cows come home no matter what the daily price says they are worth that day. Dividends help that way.Other companies are more volatile.. If they are going to drop on me, I want to drop them and I want to decide first when to do it, before my money is on the line and my heart is in my throat while the price is falling into the gutter.You might just have more Moxie than me though. When I read your opening post of this thread, I thought of a stock account right off, then nixed the idea of taking on more debt to do this kind of thing.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
He might be in for a decent ride, I don't anticipate the market to go down maybe another %5 at this point.
Mike's one month result, down 4%, illustrates the risks associated with short term trading, as opposed to long-term investing. In the short run, no one can predict which way the market, or any stock, will go, because we can't account for possible external factors. In the long run, no one can time the market. If they could, they'd be billionaires. If everyone reading this posting offered an opinion about where the DJIA will be in a month, someone will probably be right. If I spin a roulette wheel and everyone predicts what number the ball lands on, someone will be right. Both correct results would be due to chance, not genius.
Long term investing, on the other hand, is a bet that the world economy will continue to grow over the years and decades, as it has in the past. While there is no guarantee of future prosperity, it is reasonable to expect that the stock market will grow over time, more or less in line with past growth.
Mike's result's also show that short term schemes to use other people's money carries some risk. I appreciate his willingness to continue to show results, even if not good. We all have a tendency to talk about our successful investments, and not about our unsuccesful ones. Don't ask me how my Prime Computer or American Motors stock is doing.
As to dividends, I hold a bunch of dividend paying stocks, but many of them have been clobbered lately. Bank of America is still paying a great dividend, but that hasn't helped the stock price much.
Got enough to retire yet?
jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
not yet....
close of market 7/11/08....
AAPL
10.71569
$172.58
(2.29%)
($4.05)
$1,849.31
9.95%
($150.69)
(7.53%)
BRK.B
1.35280
$3,909.00
(1.64%)
($65.00)
$5,288.10
28.45%
($711.88)
(11.86%)
EIX
19.28898
$51.74
(0.21%)
($0.11)
$998.01
5.37%
($1.99)
(0.20%)
EXC
11.52712
$90.55
(1.19%)
($1.09)
$1,043.78
5.62%
$43.78
4.38%
FE
12.82495
$83.21
0.40%
$0.33
$1,067.16
5.74%
$67.16
6.72%
GGB
83.51662
$22.16
1.56%
$0.34
$1,850.73
9.96%
($149.27)
(7.46%)
PBR
30.58719
$61.71
(0.05%)
($0.03)
$1,887.54
10.16%
($112.46)
(5.62%)
RIO
26.43742
$31.51
(0.03%)
($0.01)
$833.04
4.48%
($166.96)
(16.70%)
SA
45.83791
$21.08
9.11%
$1.76
$966.26
5.20%
($39.64)
(3.94%)
SU
30.88794
$60.17
3.21%
$1.87
$1,858.53
10.00%
($141.47)
(7.07%)
TAP
17.36020
$54.25
2.17%
$1.15
$941.79
5.07%
($58.21)
(5.82%)
Print
Total: 11 Securities
$18,584.25
100.00%
($1,421.62)
(7.11%)
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Not here to argue it, just sharing my own thoughts. It's Mike's money.
Or the banks that is.OK it's monopoly money...;)One of the beauties of the free market is how we can each do our own and put our money where our mouths are.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I think Piffin was responding to my point that one could follow Buffet without paying the price of admission.He is saying that one could certainly do that, but the risk of the stocks going up in price after Warren buys are significant, so you may be better off just signing up with him instead of being a trail blazer.Buffet doesn't care if the stock goes up or down a week after he buys, but a copycat would.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Here's a couple that my son is trying to get his clients to trade up and out of right now. He got them in over a year ago. He is starting to do ok for himself. Just got off the phone with him and he has some nice checks coming his way.
CHK: 63.96 +0.57 (+0.90%) : CHESAPEAKE ENERGY CP - Yahoo! Finance
BQI: 4.38 0.00 (0.00%) : OILSANDS QUEST INC - Yahoo! Finance
Has has about $1,000,000.00 in clients money in BQI.
Makes me think about changing careers.
The CHK he was trying to get me in around $24.00 and I didn't.[email protected]
I've had CHK since $30.50. I still expect it to double again over the next couple years. They are getting to be the largest nat gas distributor in the country. They have roughly doubled the number of wells in production and own rights on lots more area. They are drilling as fast as they can, genrating electricity off it, and buying up smaller fish.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Mike:I got into some of this recently.
HSVLY:NASDAQLike most things, June has not been kind. Huge demand for castings and forgings worldwide. Mike