Hi,
I am a homeowner who loves to do improvement projects. It has become my hobby and I always have at least one underway. I have successfully finished a 1200 sq ft basement and built a 12 x 20 shed on a foundation. I always sub contract things I know I cannot do to professionals to ensure high quality results, and to learn. As such ocassionally freinds will ask my opinion on something they would like to do, have done, or maybe is underway. Yesterday a doctor freind of mine asked me to take a look at his attic as he had hired a handyman to finish it as a playroom for his 4 sons. The house is a 1920’s tudor and the attic has many dormers and angles, but the center height is about 14′ and it should make a great playroom. At this point the framing is about is about 90 percent done and it is absolutely horrible. There is not one straight, level plumb, surface or right angle in the whole room. There are up to 1 inch gaps where the studs come together. In addition, he built some enormous soffits (30′ long and 6′ tall) that are attached to the rafters by toe nailing through the skinny end of a angle cut 2×4 with one nail each. He is starting to sheetrock this mess and I really think it will collapse before he is done.
My question is, this guy is installing 1/4 sheetrock on the BACK of the framing that has space behind. Does anyone know why this would be done? Based on what the rest of the work looks like I would guess the handyman has no idea what he is doing, but I figured it would be better to check with the pro’s here first just in case. I think I have convinced my friend that you get what you pay for and he should rip out this mess, hire a professional, and start again. It is a nice house in a very desirable neighborhood.
Thanks.
Replies
Dont know why he would rock the back side of the kneewalls.
Cant think for any firestopping reason. Perhaps to minimize drafting and have the insulation in an enclosed space but I have never seen this.
I agree that it sounds horrible and you need to tell the friend to stop, get the building inspector in and see what is what.
(if no permit, shame on all but a building inspector would hopefully catch some of the mess)
If he is rocking, what about wiring, smoke detector (it is going to be a play area for his kids so if he values them, he better do it right) a window that complies with emergency escape guidelines, etc.
The roof also needs proper ventilation that the guy will likely screw up if he blocks the flow of air in the roof system.
BTW what area, your profile is not filled out and there are plenty of good contractors you could find right here.
I'm in Pittsford, NY and my friend is in Brighton, NY.
Good point that he is beginning to rock w/o wiring. There is a lot of new isulation installed by the prior owner and it looks professionally done. It is up in the rafters - this job would not even require insulation. My friend is not going to continue with this guy - being a busy doctor he just didn't know the work was bad, or exactly how bad.
Hi, there are so many things that sound wrong w/ this handyman's
work it is great you could help your doctor friend w/ your input. As mentioned there are electrical, ventillation(min. 1" airspace between roof sheathing/insulation), insulation(proper thickness), egress, openable window located w/in 24" of finished floor req. guards(at least this is a req. in this state), floor system capable of "live loads" compared to just a ceiling designed for limited storage.
Mebbe the 1/4" rock is for blowing wet cellulose later? It'll act as a backer for the cells to be blown to after the mechanicals pass inspection.
As for out of square, maybe it was an effort to match already existing 1920s houses? :) Big gray area whether the existing joists will handle the loads of living space up there.
Seems like a complete re-evaluation of the work/job is in order to include the AHJ? Demoing poorly done work later seems harder on a house than it is to just do it right the 1st time which it's still not too late. I think you're on the right path convincing him to gut what's there and start over.
It might be a good idea to ask the handyman what his plan is before jumping to conclusions. For instance, the suggestion someone here made that the ¼" 'rock is a backer for blow-in isn't that far fetched, altho I wouldn't do it that way personally. This handyman may be more experienced than you know about--not a lot of people outside the trades even know that ¼" gyprock exists.
I can't see the framing from here so it's not possible to judge its quality. But a knee wall tucked under rafters will have to be attached more or less in the manner you described, with toenails to the rafters going through the top plate, the back edge of which will have to be bevel-cut to mate with the roof slope. I'd use two toenails per rafter; but having only one isn't going to make it fall down without something else being wrong, too.
I smell a bit of panic here which isn't conducive to clear thinking; I suggest you and your doctor friend slow down a bit and talk to the handyman before deciding to tear it all out. It might not be as bad as it looks at first glance.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
I would love to see this framing, but 21/2-3 hr drive for me. We had a person from the finger lakes on here, wonder if he will chime in.
Geez Frammer:
I am bidding stuff that is 2 1/2 to 3 hours away right now if I get it.
Only did one job that was about 2 hours away but paid well and went smoothly.
If I travel over 1 hour, it takes me a week to recover! I had an accident 2.5yrs ago and can't travel. Before, I would have emailed the guy and put the wife and kids in the car for a day trip.
UGGH
That stinks.
I assume back issues from the accident?
Something that therapy will resolve?
I have a marginal back but have only had to cancel about 5-6 days of work in the last 2 years and missed one family trip due to it.
Jeff in PA -Look south and you might see me. (unless I'm racing up 81 to T.I.)
Snowmobiling?
Actually it is my neck and shoulders that caused my problems
Eeek
I had a neighbor growing up who killed himself in a sled accident. (aka snowmobile)
I was doing some business with him and he was a good guy.
We ended up developing our family farm and the property that he owned next door. (bought it from his mom)
We named the street after him.
It was the only way we could think of to memorialize him in a nice way.
Young guy and everyone liked him!
I tend to take it easy on em as I vacation in the 1000 islands and people die every year on them up there.
Agreed. That's why I was asking here rather than just assuming it was wrong. More info - the handyman is really a painter with zero building experience. The price quoted is 1/3 the lowest I would have expected. Bottom line, the guy probably gave an honest representation of his ability and the price reflected it. My friend just has no basis to understand a wall is not just a wall. I think they are going to let the guy keep the money and say thanks but no thanks and start again. I will try to get some pictures next time I'm over there - they will speak for themselves.
I will try to get some pictures next time I'm over there - they will speak for themselves.
That would be best, I think. Sometimes we imagine things that aren't really happening. Describing a 3D structure accurate in nothing but words isn't actually that easy to do. (That's why architects have to learn how to draw, LOL....)
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
will have to be attached more or less in the manner you described
I think his concern is not with the kneewalls, but with hanging soffits."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
we are insulators and we wold use tis just as a backer for 2 lb spray foam,especially if its 2x4 We would get r 6 per inch
So, your friend,
the doctor,
cared enough to hire the very cheapest to build a room for his kids and now there is concern about the safety of the actual structure this person is adding?
I'm shocked!
How could you possibly get shoddy work from the handyman/framer?
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
It took me a while to understand that it's not necessarily best to build plumb & square inside a crooked old house. It sounds like this fellow isn't much of a framer, but that's not the only part that makes buildings stand up. Just drywall, with something halfway decent to screw it to, makes for a partition that generally can do what partitions do. It may not be "Fine Homebuilding", but that ain't what the doc paid for. Those minimally fastened big hanging soffits do sound a wee bit scary. You might suggest at least adding some H4 clips or somesuch to that.
Please keep us posted. I'd be interested in any confrontations/solutions that arise, just out of professional curiosity. Sometimes a contractor knows more than you realize, and sometimes he really is an idiot.
}}}}