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Partner vs. Salesman employee

| Posted in Business on January 27, 2002 08:38am

*
Guys,

As a followup to my shop based work posting…

I’ll admit, I stink at marketing and sales. I’m a nice guy and that makes for folks loving me to come into their home, shoot the breeze, have a drink but I don’t always get the job.

Long story short (too late huh?). I’m considering just concentrating on doing cabinets, furniture, built-ins, etc and dropppingh the remodeling and new construction biz. I’m wondering whether I should look for a partner who is better versed on the sales and marketing end or try to hire someone as a salesman? That would be a 100% commission job however as I couldn’t swing paying someone unless I had jobs coming in.

Whats your always appreciated take on this? Would either way be better than the other?

And thanks for your ongoing patience with all my business posts. The past year or so has been tough when trying to decide what to do. The economy is terrible for job hunting yet I’m constantly pressed for something more stable and lucrative. Mom said I shoulda been a doctor…but I hate the sight of blood.

Mike

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  1. Peter_Koski | Dec 21, 2001 09:55pm | #1

    *
    Michael, You will be competing with cabinet/custom furniture shops so you have to differentiate yourself.

    My experience is that the only people who make it doing what you described are the one man shows who do it all. They have minimal overhead and they just go from one job to the next. This is a tough one to get the ball rolling on. You likely will be pushing the ball up the hill for quite some time until you get a name (read broke).

    It would take a massive marketing effort to get leads pouring in that a salesman could run for you (read lots of money).

    I think for some time you are going to have to take whatever comes your way until you get "niched". Some people create a niche, others discover their niche. You will likely discover your niche after some time.

    All of this is my opinion so I could be off my rocker. Can hardly wait to hear what the others have to say.

    1. Terry_Smiley | Dec 22, 2001 05:23am | #2

      *MichaelWhy do you think you don't get the jobs you're qualified for and want? Could you improve something about your sales technique, or your work? Isn't that the fun part of being self employed (raising the bar on yourself)?Aren't you already married to your partner?Terry

      1. Michael_Rimoldi | Dec 22, 2001 06:31am | #3

        *Terry, The jobs I lose are always based on cost. They always think the price is too high. Not MY price necessarily just THE price. I get alot of folks who don't know what they are getting into and I'm always the bearer of bad news. Could probably improve my efficiency and sales tactics as I'm pretty much a "I do quality work take it or leave it" kind of guy which doesn't always sell well. For me, there is no "fun" part of being self-employed. Its just a neccessity as I can't find anything more lucrative. Not whining (ahem Piffin!) just stating the facts. And I'm married to my partner alright and her part of the deal is pushing me for a more stable, lucrative and normal career if ya know what I mean? ;) Not being hostile Terry just really frustrated with which way to go. I really do appreciate the input!Mike

        1. Mark_McDonnell | Dec 22, 2001 07:18am | #4

          *Mike,Time to get disiplined.Deep down, you know what you are worth, and you know how long it takes you to produce a job. Do the math in your head, lay out an estimate outright, on the high side, and allow your prospect a couple of seconds to react.If they freak, tell them thanks, call me when you can afford me, bye. And walk away!Your spending all your time taking to folks who can't afford you. When they want to spend time talking, (pumpimg you), only allow 5 min. and move on. Walk! It's important to be a nice guy, Mike, but when your talking business, it's better to be focused on an outcome. People will respect you more.Remember, your a busy guy. People always hire the busy guy.

          1. Andy_W | Dec 22, 2001 07:51am | #5

            *mike:I can't imagine that the market for top quality custom made built ins and furniture is very big. Certainly not bigger than the market for remodelling, renovating and additions. Not many people will pay what it costs to make furniture or built-ins, but when they need a new washroom put in because theirs is moldy, rotten and outdated, they will come up with the cash somehow, as there is no alternative. With furniture, they can always find something at Ikea or The Brick that will do the job. If you are dealing with people that have the green to spend on builtins, they must have the dough for a good reno. One idea I had for getting new business, was to pay former clients for any leads they sent me. Your best advertisement is a well done job and a happy customer! Use them to their full potential!As for getting the jobs you quote, missing out on some is a good sign that you aren't pricing too low. You can usually tell if you have a chance early on in the conversation if you ask the right questions, and then you just have to decide if you want to chat with someone on the slim chance that you will get some work out of it.It never hurts to be a nice guy, and in a few years they might be able to afford you. Somewhere I read "you don't want to be known as the cheap guy, you want to be known as the good guy"Make lots of contacts with your local trades and suppliers, and let them know the kind of clients you are looking for.Hang in thereAndy

          2. Stan_Foster | Dec 22, 2001 03:36pm | #6

            *Mike: I would just stay with the upper end people. These people want quality and they also want to show off their $100k cabinets, or their $50k stairway. Rich people have rich friends. Your nice work will sell itself, especially if you have permission to show some prospective clients your work. I have several of the nicest people that I have built stairways for that let me show them to clients. I am very careful not to intrude, but you would have to understand how nice and open these people are. It is very good advertising. Also- keep a nice photo album of all your work with phone numbers available for the individual jobs. They will rarely check up on these numbers, but just you offering them is showing you are trying to be open and honest. Insist they call any number to ask any questions. Also, what works good for me is to invite prospective clients or contractors to your shop when you have a project well underway. Show them first hand what sets you apart from the others. Constantly try and improve your methods to stay ahead of the "pack". There are lots of cabinet makers in my area, but there are just a few that are exceptional. These people stay with the upper end homes and are all busy doing the more lucrative jobs. I know of a friend of mine that does beautiful work building special mantles, custom arched mouldings, cabinets, etc. His biggest problem is he is too cheap. He is BURIED doing jobs for the average Joe who cant pay what he should really be getting. I told him that I feel it is far better to work on high end jobs, and during a slow time, spend time out looking for more high end work, than taking every job that comes along. I dont mean to say to shut the shop down completely. We all have to have some money coming in, but I always leave out a few days trolling for the big fish. The last several years, my biggest complaint that my wife hears is that I miss the challenge of going out and trying to land some big fish. They just keep jumping in my net and keeping me buried in sawdust. Good luck finding the situation that suits you.

          3. FredB | Dec 23, 2001 12:23am | #7

            *Michael:In a topic last year we covered this kind of situation. Essentially, if you can't get work at the price you need the market is telling you to go do something else.I remember posting how to calculate what your price had to be. Then commenting that if, for any reason, you couldn't make a go of it at that price to understand that the market was telling you you were out of line. Then you either needed to reduce your price, do something a little different to differentiate yourself, or go into another line of work. In this case I doubt adding another person to your company would help. More likely it would hinder. Plus, what do you offer a quality person that would entice them to join you when they could make more money somewhere else?The market is a lot like Mother Nature. It goes along on its' way without a whole lot of concern for any particular individual. You can influence it some. But in the end it is the individual that has to bend to the environment.

          4. Mike_Smith | Dec 23, 2001 02:03am | #8

            *Mike... remember the story about the 30's ganster bankrobber.. a reorter asked him why he robbed banks.. and he replied.." cause that's where the money is"... if you want ot stay in your line.. you have to go where the money is..from '75 to '90 we were a new home builder... after the '80s home building had changed to commodity building.. and i struggled until i found another niche.... design / build remodeling...we only sell what we can make a profit on to people who who can pay the price...sometimes we're surprised at the ones who can pay the price ..and want to...

          5. ANDY_C._CLIFFORD | Dec 23, 2001 02:33am | #9

            *High end low end..bottom line is most everyone wants quality work. You're working on the biggest investment of their lives....their homes. If youre a small company then how many jobs do you need at once? Focus on getting the work that works for you is my motto. What youre good at and what you like doing. Isn't that why you're in this business? Or isn't it? I don't think there really is a BIG picture in as much as focusing on individual jobs and using THOSE jobs as your advertising...word of mouth and the end product is always the best way to land more jobs. Maybe you talk to much small talk when you walk into a potential customers home......I know I use to till I got hip to the fact that too many people just wanna talk, pick your brain, show off..etc etc...Work smart, not hard. Don't spend so much time yakkin'. You can show how nice you are in ten minutes. Its all in your eyes and body language. Keep the talk to THE JOB....Talk about how you love your work and how each job is so important to you....how you want your work to stand the test of time. Thats why people call you into their homes. Your not Howard Stern....he gets paid the big bucks to talk.

          6. Don_Lockman | Jan 27, 2002 08:38am | #10

            *Mike, I agree with Terry. The only partner you want is your spouse. My first business was a partnership. What a joke! I left a great job to do this and lost my butt and my temper in the process. I went over a table after him one night. He was saved by his wife. I signed the signature forms for the bank, only to find out he threw those away and set up the business in him and his wifes name. Then my employees and suppliers did not get paid, let alone the IRS or myself.I got a disolution on the partnership, had they G.C. pay all of our bills out of what they owed us and split the rest. We each got a thousand but he probably got away with 20,000, cause I had no recourse on what was previously made. Because I could not sign checks the IRS went after him. He now builds sheds, and I build multi-million dollar homes. MORAL of the story "NO PARTNERS" Be fair, be honest, do a quality job and keep your customers happy! Don

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