I have a 30s bungalow that originally had radiator heat long since removed. I would say this is a B level trimmed house, with oak flooring in the living room and some kind of yellow pine everywhere else. After pulling up the old floor covering to prep the wood for finish I’ve discovered about a dozen holes where the old supply pipes ran.
These vary from a true 3/4″ to oblong 1.5″ but are all too close to walls to use a router and template to make a neat patch. Hole saws or whatever, I’m looking for a couple of good ideas. I don’t expect it to invisible but blending on would be nice.
Thanks
Replies
Dutchmen were made with chisels long before the router was invented. So, doing them by hand is a possibility.
That said, my PorterCable 7310 trim router has an offset base, (the Bosch Colt, and several other manufacturers have them also), that lets you get very close to an edge, and a 1/4-in hinge mortising bit with the top bearing would let you follow a template. http://www.amazon.com/Freud-16-560-Mortising-Features-Hi-Density/dp/B000BV7RC2
If you do dutchmen, remember that you can get a less visible patch if you make it irregular in outline, and pay attention to the grain of the patch. Adding a few grain lines with a pen, that cross the patch boundary also helps a great deal. Also, wait until you have removed the existing finish before you try to make the dutchmen, as this gives you a chance to match bare wood for tone.
The other alternative would to be have some new flooring worked in, but I would recomend you have an experienced pro do this, as it is a bit tricky.
Edited 8/1/2008 11:19 am ET by Jigs-n-fixtures
pye
two ways to do this.. first celebrate the repairs by doing something clever and highly visable using contrasting wood and a design that calls attention to itself. Second by careful matching of dutchment with regard grain color and finish..
Either way will require really sharp chisels and a lot of time..
Use the scary sharp method of sharpening those chisels and plan on resharpening them a few times.. one size will not do all you'll need a set from 1/4 inch to 3/4 inch. make your dutchman and then trace it on the where you want it. Now work up gradually to the line getting a feel for how it's cutting shave off thin bits at a time rather than big chunks to minimize mistakes.
Use your dremel tool to shape the dutchman to fit the hole rather than make the hole fit the dutchman..
Edited 8/1/2008 11:23 am ET by frenchy
"Use your dremel tool to shape the dutchman to fit the hole rather than make the hole fit the dutchman.. "
I do this the other way round -- as taught by an old-timer. I make the dutchman first, and taper the edge a bit so it's a tad smaller on the bottom. Put it in place, and trace around the bottom with a marking knife. Rout or chisel to the line. When you place the dutchman, it tightens up as you drive it in due to the taper.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Mike Hennessy.
That approach has a tendency to attempt to split the wood. In addition if the glue should fail due to starvation or something when the wood swells it will want to pop the dutchman out (or split the wood you're attempting to fix). A perfect dutchman is snug but not tight.
I wish my dutchmen were all as perfect as I exposs. I'm afraid I've make my share off too tight ones as well as loose or partially loose ones.
I think the best way is to save them all for one giant Dutchman party and sit down and patiently try to do perfection.. Instead I tend to repair them whenever the need arises..
" That approach has a tendency to attempt to split the wood. In addition if the glue should fail due to starvation or something when the wood swells it will want to pop the dutchman out (or split the wood you're attempting to fix)."
Never had it happen in 30 years. The dutchman is thin, usually diamond shaped so it doesn't push against the grain "head-on", the taper is slight. Makes for a perfect repair IME.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Mike
I ain't sayin' you're wrong. just taht for flooring which is 3/4 of an inch thick and a dutchman that is 3/4 of an inch thick I'd worry if it was too snug. Tapering can make something too snug go in place but also cause glue starvation and the potential to split.
Ah . . . now I get it. We're thinking two different things. When I make a dutchman, it's never the full thickness of the patched material -- only about 1/4" max -- since the patch is usually to cover up some surface flaw.
For the floor thru'-hole, I'd probably make a rough patch to fill the hole with, e.g., plywood to bring it up to 1/4", or less, from the top. The rough patch would just fill the hole, more or less. I'd then rout the recess for the dutchman in a diamond shape big enough to to cover the rough patch and extend into the surrounding flooring material. That way, the sides of the hole for the dutchman don't need to be as precise for the full depth and there's not really much routing/cutting/chiseling to do.
But, now that I think about it, doing it full depth, with slightly tapered sides may actually be better. You could make it oversize, thickness-wise, glue & pound it in, and then plane it flush to the floor. Kinda like a cork or a barrel bung.
Finishing it off with shellac, of course. ;-)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
MIke.
Thank you, I guessed that's what you were attempting to explain and frankly that approach sure would work. The limitation being resanding..
However I still worry about taper on a full depth plug, it does two things wrong. First it starves the joint for glue at the contact point and second it puts pressure on a narrow board. (most are 2 1/4 inch and we're talking up to an inch and a 1/2 dutchman) assuming we're saying that the dutchman is exactly in the center of the board that could leave us with as little as 3/8ths of an inch on either side to resist splitting.. if we are off by even a little bit that would indeed be dangerous..
However if it was between two boards then no problem. Worst that would happen is the boards open up a bit.. No biggy!
Nowdays I use my Fein MM, but before that I just used a sharp chisle.
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I've done this many times by using 2 holes saws.
Find two hole saws where the plug from the larger one will fit into the hole from the smaller one. I usually use 2" and 2-1/8". I use a drill press to cut the plugs with the larger hole saw. Take the guide bit out so the plug is solid, and clamp the material down that you're drilling into.
For the floor, I use a piece of 5/4 or 2x material, and make a guide by drilling thru that with the smaller hole saw. I then line up the guide over the old hole on the floor, and drill thru the finish floor. Then simply glue the plug in the new hole, tap it into place, sand, and touch up the floor finish.
This technique works best with a finish floor over a subfloor, just because having the subfloor there keeps the plug from falling thru. But I've done it on floors without a subfloor by adding a cleat under the flooring. If there's access underneath, I'll screw a block under the hole. If there's no access, I'll slide a cleat thru the hole in the floor, glue it in place with some construction adhesive, and figure a way to clamp it in place until the adhesive sets.
I find a round plug, if you take the time to match the grain, disappears pretty well. The eye seems to flow around the round plug, rather than stop at the straight line of a square patch.
Thanks to everyone, going to give it a shot this weekend.
AsI was thinking about my post, I remembered I had to do something to the tooth set of one of the hole saws to get the plugs to fit. I think I set the teeth of the smaller hole saw a little larger, but it's been so long, I'm no longer sure.
But once the hole saws are fixed to work together, patching holes goes pretty quickly.
Well, pye,How'd it go?My first choice would have been Jigs-n-fixtures' trim router approach. It's fast, and you get a clean joint, and consistent depth. Removing any shoe mold should get you close enough to the wall to hide that line -- sometimes you have to change to a larger diameter bit after roughing out the basic mortise to achieve this. Take a light pass, as the offset routers are driven by belts which can strip out with bigger bits/bigger passes.I've tried Shep's hole saw trick, too, but only on exterior work. He's right in his second post -- the plug usually rattles around too much, so grinding off the inside teeth of the plug-cutting saw, or the outside teeth of the hole-cutting saw, or maybe both, would be necessary.I've only used the hole saw trick to patch woodpecker holes in rough-sawn cedar, where it worked great. Stain your plug stock a little dark, so it looks like a knot, and set it with construction adhesive, which also serves as a gap filler/putty. You know the woodpeckers will be right back to start fresh holes, so you can't agonize about perfection here. No sense trashing a hole saw to achieve a perfect fit in this case. Inside, however, tweak away! AitchKay
A little hot glue might hold the cleat in place while the construction adhesive sets up.
good idea, but my hot melt gun sits in my shop most of the time. <G>