Patio at level of doorthreshold
Shaken_not_Stirred
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
I am interested to learn how one builds a brick or paver patio without a step down from the exterior door of more than two or three inches.
The obvious issue here is that the grade must be built up to cover most of the rim joist. This obviously requires special care. Or is this just NOT A GOOD IDEA?
I would guess that during construction one could run tar paper down over the rim joist and beyond it a few inches and then cover that with galvanized flashing (say two feet wide) nailed only above the level of the patio. Then run the siding down to within an inch of the patio.
That would be a guess. Interested to hear from experts.
Replies
If this is for handicapped reasons, then you can do better than 2-3 inches, you can detail it to be flush.
otherwise, 3 inches is what is known as a "trip step" meaning an awkward step. Believe it or not, it can really throw people off.
Don't know where you are, but in snow country it is not a good idea to be right under the threshold for snow-melt reasons, even with proper pitch away from the house.
Bear
Shaken -
Your instincts are right - water and termites are both potential problems in the scenario. Here on Long Island, we have sandy soils, and many of the stoops old and new, are brought up to just under the door threshold (same concept/same problem). Termites get in and chew the wood up good. You can try membrane/flashing/tar to cover it, but not a guarantee. Pressure treated lumber is the biggest help but it rots too.
If the house is on a slab, that's a help, but again water infiltration can be a problem. There was a thread about two months ago where someone had a deck built in the back yard that was up against the house (on a slab) and water was getting in under the sill in a few places.
As far as the short step, on a deck I think many/most people can deal with it. Put it on in a set of stairs and it's a killer.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Checked your profile for your localle.....wondering what your climate is like. Get much/any snow?
Is this for handicap issues? You might consider a ramp.
As "awkward" as some feel this step may be, it is somewhat critical.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
My first question is, "Do you have to build it to the same level?"
If the answer is yes, my second question is, "How much time are you willing to spend a lot of time removing the door and first couple courses of siding to flash everything over the joist.
I spent a 17 degree morning replacing an exterior door and repairing the framing beneath it because it was improperly flashed and the deck was too high.
You can do it, you just need to really, really, really think like a drop of water. And, tell your customer they will eventually get water penetration if you're in a non-desert area.
There are a gazillion flashing illustrations on the web.
Ok, lots of question.
Pacific Northwest. So, yes we have snow. I think the bigger problem with snow, rather than the melt which could be handled with buried drains, is the snow would pile up aainst the siding (not good).
The nature of the question is more of a look forward. I plan to build and like patios, but would like the most comfortable means of getting in and out of the house.
I don't like the idea of two steps down right in front of the door.
Now, I suppose one could build a six by six foot landing very near level with the threshold and then step down to the patio.
I would think long and hard about building a deck level with a door threshold. That's just a time bomb. It isn't a question of "Will I have problems", the only question is when.
If there is any way to do this with a small step down to the deck, I would strongly recommend it.
Dave5,
This is why in my original post I added something like . . OR is this just not a good idea.
Before I posted I was thinking of the water adn insect problems, and hence I asked the question.
You must admit that millions of homes are build with threahold level ENTRIES. And the big difference here being that most are covered.
I know that it's done a lot, but I'm still not a fan of the idea - lol. Another poster in this thread mentions overhangs and a definite slope on the patio and these features would definitely help.
I recently replaced 12 french doors in a semi-mansion and five of them are level with the outside patios. Four of them have no overhang and face south - the prevailing wind direction during rainstorms. I spent lots of time flashing, caulking and sealing and I'm pretty confident that they'll be ok. The HO is planning a new home and they've said that it won't be done that way.
So what is most comfortible? One step say down 7" and with a 3 foot tread? Then down to teh patio, for a total of 14" drop? Other ideas?
Here's a picture of my door - deck - patio path. The step from the door to the deck is a little higher than I really like, but I didn't want to block the crawlspace vents. The deck is about 6' wide and the steps to the patio are around 7".
Sorry about the mess, but we got hammered by a severe wind storm the other day and I haven't had time to clean it up.
Dave has it right. You need an inch or two, or wind driven rain will blow through there like it was a garage door.
-- J.S.
We have a local architect that does designs for quite a few of our local high end houses. He believes that one should not step up into a house, but that the entry terrace should be at the same elevation of the foyer floor.
The door threshold is stepped over, but the exterior paving has the same grade as the floor within.
To accomplish this, the foundation wall on the entry door elevation is raised, capped with a ripped PT 2x10, top flange hangers support the floor joists heading off at that wall, and thus there is no exposed rim joist.
His entries are always well under a large roof overhang, and typically finished in stone, random fitted flags or cut, set on a mortar bed, and sloped away to drain at something like 1/8 inch per foot.
I poured my front porch level with the door. But my whole house is concrete and the porch is covered so no termites or water damage. I lived in a mfg home for ten years, that right guy. trailer trash. I got tired coming home and walking up five steps everyday. I wanted to drag my feet into the house and later when I become handicapp.I got wrote up by the county inspector, That was the second time I told the county to "Bite Me" the beginning of a loveless relations with a wally world wantabee county inspector.. 2+3=7
Stinger, great detail for entries! May not be as practible for say a 20 foot patio along a wall. And without a porch roof to keep snow from piling up agaist teh siding.
Could be done, of course. And if high end, why not.
Thanks for teh idea.
I have a deck and wheelchair ramp in the back of my house. Neither are attached to house. There is a 1" space in between.
No bugs can walk from deck to house and we use the door year round so the snow is always shoveled away.