How much do you pay carpenters or skilled laborers on your crew (from Foreman down to the lowest man)? Since this probably varies by region, don’t forget to say what part of the country you’re in, and/or whether you’re in a big city or smaller town. Do you pay per day,hour,or salary?
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
A new code-compliant, spill-safe outlet from Legrand offers a sleek solution for a kitchen island plug.
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Fine Homebuilding Magazine
Fine Home Building
Follow
-
Fine Homebuilding
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial Now -
GBA Prime
Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
- Home Group
- Antique Trader
- Arts & Crafts Homes
- Bank Note Reporter
- Cabin Life
- Cuisine at Home
- Fine Gardening
- Fine Woodworking
- Green Building Advisor
- Garden Gate
- Horticulture
- Keep Craft Alive
- Log Home Living
- Military Trader/Vehicles
- Numismatic News
- Numismaster
- Old Cars Weekly
- Old House Journal
- Period Homes
- Popular Woodworking
- Script
- ShopNotes
- Sports Collectors Digest
- Threads
- Timber Home Living
- Traditional Building
- Woodsmith
- World Coin News
- Writer's Digest
Replies
$4 hr, 1979, Seattle, last time I hired anybody for a whole day for labor.
Southeastern NC, at the coast.
These are subcontract prices:
$10/hr - general labor & carpenters helper
$12/hr - basic carpenter
$15/hr - pretty good carpenter
$20/hr - great carpenter
These are employee prices:
$30,000/yr plus bonuses - entry level super
$50,000/yr plus bonuses - project manager
$65,000/yr plus bonuses - construction manager
Geez,
Glad I don't work in the construction trades. At those wages, why would anyone want to enter?
Jon
All I can tell you is- for twenty three years, I've gone to work because I had to, and I've been in construction because I love building things.
Not everyone in America works purely for the money.
Do you?
"All I can tell you is- for twenty three years, I've gone to work because I had to, and..... Not everyone in America works purely for the money."
I think you inferred something different than I was saying. Construction is a physically demanding trade to be in. It is ashamed the wages are so low for people who aren't Union/commercial/and in a major metro area.
The wages quoted so far suck IMO. Maybe they might appeal to a 19 year old young buck, but man, at 35, 45 you better be pulling in way more than that if you want to be a responsible family man.
WSJ
Here's something that'll really scare you.......Union Carps here in the OKC Metro area are at $19 bucks and change.........just had an offer to go to work on a commercial job as lead carpenter and guess what they offered to pay????? $14 an hour, this is to run the crew, ensure work is performed to scope, etc.....What BS.......If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
"just had an offer to go to work on a commercial job as lead carpenter and guess what they offered to pay????? $14 an hour, this is to run the crew, ensure work is performed to scope, etc.....What BS......."
Just out of curiosity, what is the cost of living down their? Back when I lived in NY (twenty plus years ago) I had no problem pulling in close to $50K/year as a pattern/model maker/machinist in Westchester County, but the cost of housing was horrific, which is why I moved to the Midwest.
Here I was able to buy a 2,400 sq/ft house, with a 2 1/2 car garage, on two very scenic acres, in an excellent suburban community (great schools/no crime) for $96K ten years ago. And around here, most skilled trade journeyman pull in at least $20/hour, and $30 if you're good....as an employee.
WSJ
I'll put it to ya like this. I was paying $450.00/month for a completely refurbished Victorian home in upstate NY, right in the middle of town and in the good section of town. My natural gas bill ran about 45-70 a month in the dead of winter, that included hot water as well. Water was $13.00 per quarter, we took our own trash to the dump unless we wanted to pay 10 bucks a week for a private pick up. I was making 56 grand a year...Now, Oklahoma.....my duplex is $750.00 per month and is one bedroom too small. My gas bill in the mild winters here is $165.00/month on average. My water bill and trash collection is $70.00 a month. The duplex I'm in is one of the cheaper ones around but at least it's in a decent neighborhood....right now I've got a job that pays $34,000/year, as a superintendent, supervising 4 different jobs on 4 different sites. Did I mention my $200.00/month electric bill??The carpenters union around here is a joke..no power for the working man. You have obviously read my posts on labor rates here. Starting as a laborer on a rated job in Upstate NY will get you $17.00/ plus fringes......I spoke to the union rep a couple months ago and just about laughed him out of the meeting. For $230.00 I can become a card carrying journeyman right on the spot, so can anybody else that wants to "be" a journeyman. Pretty sad.We just had a super leave my company, started a new job at 72 K/year but he has to travel. They do all their work outside Oklahoma because they can't make money doing work down here. Guess where they do all their work?? The eastern seaboard and Michigan. I'm speaking to an outfit right now that wants me to travel to the east coast mainly and when we started talking salaries, we spoke about mid 60's to start, they won't do any work in Oklahoma either. Construction is for the most part a slap happy affair here, build it as quickly as possible, don't worry about whether it's right or not, hire whomever off the street and call them carpenters, use subs who hire nothing but illegals for the masonry, brick, drywall and roofing, pay 'em 3-4 bucks an hour and everybody's supposedly happy.You ever want to make 9-10 an hour..come to Okie and call yourself a trim carpenter (laughing).......If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
I live in just east of Rochester, what town are you from? Those housing costs seem low to me. American Tradition
Trim Carpentry Co.
I used to live in Holley and worked in Batavia, now I'm in the Metro of OKC, Yukon.....I was living north of Watertown, a town called Gouverneur, was born and raised in Chaumont just west of Watertown.....If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
Not everyone in America works purely for the money.
Do you?
Is that a trick question or are you one of those people who could win the lottery - say 50 million - and appear on the daily news saying: "It's great and all but I'm not quittin' my job!"
Don't get me wrong if I won the lottery I would still build things(in the greatest shop you've ever seen) and stay busy but wouldn't be nobody on this earth(except my wife) telling me what to do for a few measly dollars.
The reason I spend all this time away from my kids and my wife is only for the money and no other reason.
Besides your making me look greedy and selfish with your outlook on life! I do a pretty good job of that on my own.
Just looked through last Sunday newspaper to see.
Not one carpenter ad listed the pay:"pay per experience".
A couple State jobs for comparison;
police recruit= $32,000
refuse collector=$18,000-$28,0000Richmond Va.
I just started a part time job a few weeks ago, fabricating solid surface countertops from prints and templates and installing same. $22.50 per hour, no benifits. That's about my minimum.
If you don't like what the boss is paying, start your own business.
Of course, for the first couple of years you will start appriciating what the boss "was" paying you.
WTF you talking about??????
Roar!
Obviously a case of mistaken affinity.be an identity
A person with no sense of humor about themselves is fullashid
Just saying that's what I did. It aint easy, and the first few years were hell finacially speaking, but things keep getting better as time goes by.
When I quit my job working for "the man", I was making around $15.00 per hour. I had been there for 13 years, and the raises were nothing to get excited about anymore.
My first year in business doing home improvements I made around $12,000 profit. My second year made around $18,000. Going on my third and looks like I'll hit $30,000 this time. Next year, I'm at least hopefull, will be much better than that.
My point was that if anyone feels stuck at whatever thier company pays them, there are options of taking some positive initiative and change things for the better. But, it aint always easy, and don't usually happen overnight.
Speedy:
Are those profits after you've paid yourself? If I may be so bold, how much was that? (Just give us a range, please)
I'm mainly a one person operation, so the profit is what I pay myself. What I made per hour would be difficult to guess.
Some weeks I make around 1.5k in less than 40, some weeks I end up working for almost nothing. As time goes by, I'm learning how to weed out the nothing weeks.
Hmm ...Both of you haven't filled out your profiles and you both just hit 11 post together...very interesting?
Where you guys from?
raleigh.
Remember the "Malice in the Palace"? The big pro basketball chair and beer throwing fight? That was in Auburn Hills, Michigan about ten minutes from my house.
I'm going to go look for these "profiles" you were talking about? What's the deal?
Click on your name or anyone's and you'll find interesting facts about them that they want you to know. Some are factual and some aren't but mostly it's a simple way of vesting oneself in community.
Look forward to reading yours.
60891.25Are you talking about this post?
I was 17...kinda young to be starting my own business.Otherwise, I have no idea why you're directing this to me.
sorry dude, I didn't mean to direct it at anyone in peticular. Just random clicked on one of the reply buttons to get on the thread.
I just figured out the "reply to all" buttons. will be using that next time.
Edited 7/24/2005 8:02 pm ET by speedy
jagwah:
Thanks for the information, I filled out the profile.
cool! I like your quote. I think they'll be sending you a box of Piffen Screws as a new member. Try not to get to excited.
Kow,
I just delivered a piece of furniture to a designer I do work for in Birmingham. The piece is going into Ben Wallace's house. It's just a stand that hold a glass case displaying a signed basket ball. The stand is 20" square by 55" high all Ask wood that's been ebonized. The materials were maybe $350 (includes lexan box) and the labor was 23 hours. I was paid $3,756.I (kinda) started my cabinet business 16 months ago and the only time I make ANY money is if I "shoot for the stars". I've given up on the average homeowners, and I try for the big shots in your area of Michigan...and Northville, Brighton and Ann Arbor of course!I live in Howell.
That is excellent, keep it up.
That was actually intended to be a reply to your "mo money, mo money" post. It was an attempt at showing there are people willing to pay for high end stuff in our area, so don't give up on your construction career just yet.
But, as I'm sure you know, for every person around here willing to pay, there's 10,000 others that have misguided priorities. Like the people that call me asking if I will make them a huge entertainment center for their $20,000 home theater...but they only want to pay $500 to me!!!
I know what you mean...I had to take jobs in New Mexico and Texas to make $18.00/hr. I did make that working for the same company here in Okie, but that was the exception......tell 'em you want 18 here and they hang up....Plenty of offers to work out of Okie for bigger dollars, but who really wants to be on the road like that for 11 months out of the year? I know we do what we have to, but one of the big reasons I'm going back to upstate NY is so I can be home every night after work, we don't have enough of keeping the family together in this country.....If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
$10/hr - general labor & carpenters helper$12/hr - basic carpenter$15/hr - pretty good carpenter$20/hr - great carpenter
That's about what pay is on the Maine coast as an employee, maybe a couple of bucks an hour more. Subcontractors, $5 to $10 an hour more.
Mike
Skilled laborers-$8.00/hr
Frame Carpenter-$10.00/hr
Highly experienced trim Carps-$15.00/hr ($18.00 if you get real lucky) Have actually had some bosses offer $9 or 10 per hour and thats if you wanted to drive an hour to get to the site. Have had more make this offer rather than the 15-18 an hour offer.
Supers-$35,000/yr (commercial)
Project Supers-$40,000/yr (commercial)
These are OKC Metro wages.........
The illegals will work for $3-4 an hour and be happy to get it here.......
Upstate New York.......
Skilled Laborers-$10-12/hr
Frame Carpenter-$15.00/hr
Experienced trim Carps-Starts at $22.00, all the way to $30.00
Supers-$40,000 to $50,000/year
Project Supers-$1400.00 to $1800.00/wk
NO illegals in my area of upstate and there aren't any for at least 150 miles....
And the biggie......cost of living in upstate NY is about half what it is here.......
If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
What do you pay an individual in a management position with a college education? Residential and commercial. Typically commercial pays more.
Depends on the person and the position. Here in NJ, commercial supers with 5-10 years experience easily get $80-100k/year, and in you're really good, $120k. When you get into the project manager/exec levels, the numbers run from $120-200k, depending on the individual. Entry-level college grad project engineers/assistant supers start out at around $55-60k/year and go up from there.
Bob
Down in this area, it doesn't matter if you've got a college education or not...the pay sucks for the school trained and the "in the field" trained alike.....
Got a link somewhere on here where Okie ranks 40th or worse out of the 50 states in about 150 different jobs, the overall state ranking was 45th.....average carp wage here is $12.67 an hour.......If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
I have no complaints...the 50-60K for an entry level position is excellent in my opinion.(What BobKovacs said above) How does a NY'er get stuck in Oklahoma?
Edited 7/22/2005 3:04 pm ET by James P
Those are entry level wages in the northeast..not down here......
It's a long story about how I came to be stuck here, but not for much longer...soon it'll be back to the north country where there are real lakes and such. I came here 3 years ago and can't wait.......my fiancee is wrapping up some loose ends here and then we're planning on leaving.......If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
experienced supers down here are making peanuts compared to their counter parts in other areas of the country......If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
I just can't get over those wages. back in the late seventies, I was making $12/hr on a roofing crew in Lubbock, Texas.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
hmmm, late '70s I was making $4-5/hr. driving a truck.
How'd you get a truck driving job when you were only twelve, LOL
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
In some cases, yes they are. The numbers are accurate, at least in the area I worked in and have personal knowledge of. Thats NY...and I know of at least one framing crew down here that the framers make more than the Super does.You wouldn't make that in roofing in Lubbock now....did a Rib Crib there last year. It's overrun with illegals who've taken over masonry, roofing and drywall....we did all the work ourselves, but we were the exception......If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
It sounds to me like there are two economies down there then. I still have a friend in roofing, about ready to retire. He and others knock down more decent wages than that, plus benefits.Mostly commercial jobs. Local well known outfit.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Maybe I should explain what I mean by the twin economies.Every time I have ever moved from opne location to another, I have had to re-prove myself again. This trade is not like being a physician or a university physics professor, or a high school english teacher, where an objective degree and x# years of experince pretty well defines the salary. The money made in this industry is based primarily on production and quality. Until one proves that he can fill both ends of that seesaw, he remains on the bottom of the laddder.
I've always been capable enough to move up the ladder fairly rapidly. Today, I make a decent living and have a fine clientele, but if I were to move again to a new region, I gaurantee, I would move back down a bit until I established myself.When I was making that 12 bucks, there was an endless stream of young bucks that came in and started at seven or seven fifty. They would be gone again in a few weeks. Some of them jhad good potential, but they were not patient enough to stick it out. you are "from away" and mentally, it is clear that you will always be "from away" in NY. but I will bet a buck or three that there are local boys down there making at least fifty percent more than you are. They are a known quantity. That makles a difference in this industry.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Some of your last I agree with, some I don't. You are probably right in the respect that some might be making more than me, but I think your numbers are a tad high. Here's what I know for sure. A buddy of mine here, making around 36K year (as a super) was offered a general superintendents position with an Okie firm and was offered less money for more responsibility than he has now. He's an Oklahoma native.Another Super, who left the company I work for now, has a wife who runs a tanning salon in the OKC area (she doesn't own it nor does she have stock in it), guess who made more money, and nearly double I might add. He's an Oklahoma native.I know a lead man on a frame crew in Mustang that makes 500 a week.The last offer to an ad I responded to called after the interview and wanted me to come to work for them. They were looking for experienced lead men/super/and experienced carp all rolled into one.....for 14 bucks an hour....when I told himn I needed 18 to start I was told that guys with the company 5 years weren't making 18 an hour. Thanks, but no thanks.....I've managed to build a pretty good rapport with many of the people I've worked with down here and I've never once heard of any carpenter making more than I did, at least on the jobs I was on, what I have heard is a bunch of locals (Oklahomans) complaining about the wages paid, mainly due to the cheapening of homes through sub standard labor and practices.I know, Piff, that being in the market for a few more years may bring about better jobs and the like and I don't doubt you there in the least and I don't want you to think I'm not paying attention to your words, because I heed everything I'm told....but this is a different animal down here now and you'd be shaking your head in disbelief if you were here today....
If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
Soujnds like it is time for you to get out of new construction and into remodeling so you cqan make good money selling quality fixes for those shoddy low wage homes
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin
I read your post regarding the moving and having to prove yourself. Couldnt agree with you more.
In the last couple of years I have done just that, moved and had to prove myself. I did and I make within probably a $1 or so of what the top cabinetmakers get in this area-that is ones that work for someone.
I dont know what experience NewY'er has and what skills so I cant coment on why or why not he makes what he does.
I'm wondering how the high end homes are being built in OKC, I dont mean the half million dollar track homes but the 4-8-12 million dollar homes. I doubt that they are done with hack workers and cheap pay. There is usually two economies going on at the same time in the home building industry. I try to gravitate towards the high end side, work is more fun and the pay seams to be much better.
I like your coment on doing remodel work on the low quality homes, down here in Texas shortly after big tracks of shiddy homes sprout up a Lowes or HD plants themselves right smack dab in the middle! I doubt that thats a coincedence!
Doug
The big boxws know their market
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
you are "from away" and mentally, it is clear that you will always be "from away" in NY. but I will bet a buck or three that there are local boys down there making at least fifty percent more than you are. They are a known quantity. That makes a difference in this industry.
Well said.
NY'er has some points but I've heard nothing ever but complaints, it's the Mexicans man and Okie bashing from him for a long time.
Not to start an argument NY'er,(and I may have) but why do you do this work when it makes you so miserable. Somewhere there's a place and an occupation for you that will make you happy, good luck in that search.
Edited 7/22/2005 11:42 pm ET by JAGWAH
Edited 7/22/2005 11:43 pm ET by JAGWAH
late seventies, I was still in diapers. ;-)
it sounds like you are saying that supers make less than good caarpenters in NY
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Back in the 90's I was hired as a punch out man for a builder in Baltimore,
county MD, for 37,500 / year. This company had five supers and two punch out men, and were turning over 120 homes a years. After about six months my super started to tell me one morning about his friend, a guy who was hired as another super recently for the company, had no field experience, but a college degree was offered a job making 18.00 $ / hour at another company doing punch out work. I had punched out some of his houses and saw he was in way over his head.This guy, the one I was talking to, my supervisor, had worked for the co. since he was 18, started sweeping up. I told him that was about what I was making working for him, never in a million years did I think that he was making less than me or even remotely close to that me saying that would offend him. He ended up quitting about a month later as a direct result of that conversation. He said they offered him more money at the table. He said - too late. I would not calll this experience the norm. I, on the other hand, quit them also because they had promised me my health insurance after 6 months. I didn't get it in 9 months and I asked repeatedly about it. They also offered me my insurance at the resignation table (literally), and I said, too late, also. I didn't want to and still do not want to work for companies that do not value their human recourses. Now I am the link between field and office and consider experiences like this valuable.
NY,
That pay scale sucks but before you move do some research. In my area wages were on the rise for a while. Lately I see truck loads of young latino men doing everything and I've heard that the prices are on the way down.
The Trades are a large collection of people who just can't seem to stick together. Throat cutting is all too common. Maybe it's time to punch out?
As an employee the beast I ever did was $20. As a sub I often made $30. Self employed my best year might have been $65K to 70K.
Right now as a Sergeant First Class I take home around $2250 net every two weeks. 30 days vacation, health benefits and a pension.
Not a day goes by I wouldn't rather swing a hammer. But life is to short to be so unhappy and part of that is taking care of my family.
Look at something else. you are loosing the best years of your life right now.
60968.3 in reply to 60968.2 I checked on your cost of living claim. Using the MSN Cost of Living Calculator and comparing OKC with a similar sized up-state NY location (Rochester)...I discovered that up-state NY has a higher cost of living (not 1/2 that of OKC). If you move back you would need to make another $3000/year to maintain that fine standard of living you have become accustomed to in OKC. That pay raise you will need only amounts to about $1.50 an hour (very likely since the average carpenter wage is probably $3-4.00/ hour higher. After the cost of relocation, you might break even the first year, then its wine and caviar baby...oh yeah, you already have the whine.Posted in the wrong thread.BTW if you run the COL caclulator for Yukon, OK and a similar sized upstate NY town, you would likely find the COL in both places to be quite similar.
Number one....Rochester area is western NY, not upstate.....Check out http://www.ocpathink.org, you'll see what the average carp wage is here in Okie.Upstate NY is anything north of Pulaski for people who know the state, most from out of the state think of upstate as anything above the city...not so.Whine?? Call it what you will, but before you jump at me, have the facts straight.....The Rochester area is more suburbia just like here, I'm talking about the upstate NY where I can still buy land for 300 an acre, have a City within 40 minutes of me, one of the largest land area military bases 15 minutes away and still enjoy a cost of living that would have most people drooling.....no McMansions there either.....If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
Here are the results for a Cost of Living Comparison between Yukon, OK and Batavia, NY:http://houseandhome.msn.com/pickaplace/comparecities.aspx?FromState=OK&FromCity=Yukon&ToState=NY&ToCity=Batavia&btnCompare=Compare&EarningFromCity=%2450%2C000&EarnToCity=%24108%2C678&Changed=1&prevFromCity=35&prevToCity=4&prevFromState=OK&prevToState=NY&EarningToCity=108678.16091954&Ratio=2.1735632183908Up-state NY, still higher. I compared OKC and Rochester, NY as representative cities, of similar size, from each region. Rochester is the closest city to Batavia with a pop. over 50,000. If you get the facts, you will find that your perception of COL differences is, in fact, wrong. You could earn more than the increase in COL though, so a move could make since (especially since you dislike OK and love rural NY).
It's a no-brainer, but not for cost of living.
Just read your post #55, but there's no place to reply, so came back here. Batavia, FYI, is located smack dab between Rochester and Buffalo, I know because I lived there for almost 5 years. You aren't looking at upstate NY, you're looking at western NY and anybody that knows the state will tell you without a doubt that there's a difference.When you get to upstate there are a couple places where the cost of living is higher, but it's more in the resort type areas like Lake Placid, Alexandria Bay, etc.You'll never find the area I'm talking about on any MSN search because it's too remote to even be considered. I appreciate your research into this, but having lived up there for 40 years I know what I'm talking about.If you have access to a map of NYS...locate Syracuse in the central part of the state and then go 100 miles straight north, please note how the area I'm referring to is right on the fringe of the Adirondack Park area...also please note the lack of any major suburban areas in that area......Friends of mine bought 100 acres of hardwoods there a couple years ago for $10,000...right next to a state highway and 10 minutes from town, you think for one minute I could get 100 acres in Batavia or Yukon for that?? You can't buy 5 acres for that in either place.....If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
You have a point, the farther you go from urban centers the cheaper the land (in both OK and NY, and elsewhere). But, the farther you have to drive for milk, eggs, and bread...work...etc. I'm living in a semi-rural area, on a couple of acres I bought for cheap, but commute to Rochester, MN to make more money. No complaints though, I enjoy the drive, like my work, and have a nice country place. Life is too short. Live in a place you enjoy and do satisfying work for a decent wage. See you in the Adirondacks : o )Go 100 miles north of Yukon, OK and check land prices too.Edited 7/24/2005 9:40 am ET by basswood
Edited 7/24/2005 9:57 am ET by basswood
NY'er stuck in OKIE
I don't know a lot of the details----but I go to Rochester ,New York every fall for a few days.
It has always impressed me favorably----right size, upscale residents, fantastic old houses, ( a little too much snow---but you can't have everything), great cultural amenities for a town it's size
If that's the kind of place you are looking for----- I don't blame ya----I wouldn't mind working there myself---------------------------------
I DO wish ya would move already 'though !!!!!
We GET it---ya hate oklahoma
It was me---i would move NOW already---let the girl freind meet ya there when she's ready.
Best wishes, Stephen
Yeah...Rochester and the burbs...Greece, Mendon, Irondequoit, it was a nice area, always liked being so close to the big lake......finger lakes region is beautiful, all that wine country, the friendliness of the people..wow!!I read on the net the other day that Kodak is planning on cutting another 10,000 jobs soon..thats gonna hurt the local economy. I can remember about 12 years ago when the Kodak CEO got his 7.7 million dollar bonus...don't think they're gettin' bonus's like that now...digital has hurt them bad and they self admittedly state they didn't jump on the digital bandwagon when it started, now they're wishing otherwise.Ft Drum in upstate has almost a billion dollars allocated over the next 10 years for upgrades and new construction, already getting returns from the resumes, it may come down to being able to pick and choose the new job.......spoke to one on the phone the other night and it started as a superintendent in the low 60's-high 70's...hard to pass that one up.....think there's going to be at last count 1500 new multi family homes built, it's amazing what the addition of another division will do for the local economy..sorry to see the areas affected by base closures...If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
you seem to be ignoring the fact that you are comparing rural out in th e sticks NY state to Urban Oky. Try the same comparison of rural out in the sticks Oky to Urban NYC and see what ahppens to your figures.But if you want to be accurate, accept his comparison of Rochester and urban OK, or compare rural NY with rural OK
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
upstate - To anyone living in NYC, anything else is upstate.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
After the cost of relocation, you might break even the first year, then its wine and caviar baby...oh yeah, you already have the whine.
ROFLMAO!
And forget it you'll never find his holy land. Just north of Yukon or El Reno where he is is my family's homes. I was born in El Reno and my father contracted there for over 40 years til his death in 1999.
The best people around and just as good as anywhere else in this great country but apparently not according to NY'er. Land north of El Reno before you get to Okarche can be bought for almost nothing but it's wheat country , very flat and undeveloped.
Wages are tough there but then the area is a bedroom for OKC. Professionals live there for the low housing cost and work in OKC for the higher wages an educated professional can get.
Like everywhere else in the country a well trained carpenter is not looked upon much better than your average day laborer.
I live here in Tulsa and I bet paid very well but then I stopped working in low level starter tract homes and started working for builders who don't build smaller that 10,000s.f. It's a much happier world where my talents are appreciated where it counts, in my paycheck!
Jag:
You make an excellent point that I forgot to mention in my previous post, the lack of respect and prestige by the general public toward people in the building trades.
Stop and think about it. Do you want your daughter to marry a carpenter? Hell no. You want her to marry a doctor or lawyer or anyone else who would be able to offer a middle-class standard of living and security. Pity if she falls for one of us.
If he were a carpenter
and she were a lady
would she marry him anyway
and have his baby?I'll take a carp for her over half the dinks she has had chasing her. One test she uses to weed them out - she tells them that they have to meet her parents to get their approval to date here. She has found out that the one who roll their eyes and avoid "The Meeting" are not worth investing any time in, but the ones who agree and look forward to meeting her family turn out to be worth putting on the short list.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"The best people around and just as good as anywhere else in this great country but apparently not according to NY'er."You have to understand the cultural handicap NYers are saddled with. They are raised knowing that they are better than anyone else in the world. I know, I were one.Life showed me different. The NYer has yet to live.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You evolved to a higher life form? That explains a lot and something for me to aspire to.
Only meqant that I was from NY and had that superior inbred attitude for a year or two after leaving there. now, I admitt to being raised in NY, and then ask folks not to hold that against me.;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hey Piff..I don't think I'm better than anybody else...this started as a thread concerning wages and pay scales.....go to http://www.ocpathink.org, you'll find a listing of about 150 most common jobs in the country...see where the rankings are for the trades down here and maybe you'll see....I'm not saying by any stretch that there aren't good carps around here but see what they're getting paid in relation to the rest of the country and you'll be surprised.Ranking 40th or worse in over 90% of the jobs listed is bad, and the overall ranking of 45th?? What do you get from something like that anyway??Granted, rural living is far and away cheaper, but to have to drive an hour or better (here) to get to the city and make $14 an hour?? I'd much rather live someplace where I could drive 15-20 minutes and make $1200.00 a week any day and I'm sure there's not one person out there who would say otherwise.If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
This keeps getting better...Oklahoma has the lowest cost of living in the entire U.S.A.http://www.homesweethome.com/lowest_cost_of_living_nationSo if your wages are 40th or average 45th, you are still better off than the average American! Money goes farther in OK than in any other state. Employers aren't dummies, pay must be reasonably in line with expenses or you can't keep employees. OK employers, with the COL numbers in mind, might need to reduce their pay scales.
I don't think the impression you have made for yourself here is limited to this thread about wages. It runs back over several of the posts of the past couple of months wherein you have consistantly complaioned about wages and conditions in OK, denigrated carpenters in general there, and repeatedly proclaimed how well you were doing back in NY. Deny it all you want, you 'tude is showing and the complaining is getting worn out.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Didn't know looking through rose colored glasses could make you so testy.This is all about wages Piff, and I'm sure you aren't going to work for $12.67 an hour.
I've never been an advocate of unions and have no problem saying this here knowing there are union carps that read this, even that wage here sucks big time.The fact of the matter is, whether you feel it's complaining or not, this is the way it is here and where in any of these other threads have you seen wages this far in the toilet?Yeah, I complain, a lot in fact. Maybe if a few more out there started complaining a bit then things would get better. Fact of the matter is, this place (Okie) is almost nothing but low paying jobs, diluted with a slew of illegals just to drop the standards of what could be fine craftsmanship lower. There are a lot of great old homes in the OKC area and the craftsmanship is superb, not any more though, nothing like that has been built in years. Why is that?? Why did craftsmanship just head south never to return again??Nobody ever said you had to read any thread I've posted. You do that on your own accord. Call me a know it all or whatever, the fact is that the wages suck and you know it...read back some of the other threads responding to this and you'll see nothing that compares. Like it or not, this is what it is and I've provided fact to this forum.Sorry you don't like my postings, I don't like some of the ones out there either, but life goes on......If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
What? Me testy?I'm just observing the weather. You're the one complaining about it. I never saw anyone change the weather by complaining about it. Or make more money by complaining about what they make. All my income increases have come from doing something.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
NY'er
I lived in Tulsa, OK back in the early 80's, moved back up north in 85.
I was making around 9-10 an hour then. I think Jagwah said that he is making much more then the $12.67 that you keep quoting.
I have a brother that lives in Tulsa and an ex-BIL that lives in OKC, I keep in touch with both of them.
I'd bet that I could arrive in either of the two towns and be making much more then the $12.67 that your quoting.
There building some high end homes in both cites, they aren't getting those done for track home wages.
I think you need to go out and look a little harder, the good wages are there. Maybe it isn't worth the effort, I think I've read that you plan on being back in up-state NY by winter. BTW, I think of anything north of the city as up-state!
Its been noted before that you do come across with a negative attitude, at least towards the Okies, try enjoying the place, it cant be all that bad. Some of the best times I had were in Tulsa, OK. course I was younger then, that probably had something to do with it.
I used to run around with a guy in Tulsa that was from the UP-Mich. We'd be out at a bar and he'd had to many and start talking about the "stupid Okies", I told him that he was on his own if he continued to do that, man did he get into a lot of fights, couldn't shut the f__k up about it!
You know what they say, when in Rome.........
You say your leaving for home soon, try to relax and enjoy the good things about the state, the're there, gotta open your eyes!
Not trying to be all preachy but man, your bummin me out.
Doug
Ole Pif didn't like it when I posted on here about Tenn. (Top PAy) Seems i'm a "Crotchity old Geezer" :). But if you feel bad in OK its the same here. i've worked on the road in OK City and Tulsa. I know what your talkin about. Was in Syracuse last October. Don't know about the wages but the people up there seem to enjoy " Pis*in each other off. Was dissapointed cause I like the finger lakes region. And when I was there several years ago they were a lot more freindly. Anyway your right about gettin grumpy about it. But to many live by the "Don't worry be happy" attitude
For those who fought. Freedom has a special meaning the protected never know.
Thanks 8!! You know, looking at this and the research I've done, it has eliminated all the arguements about high end homes versus tract homes, "you just haven't found the right employer" etc., etc.Most people understand the value of construction and there are some here in the south that do as well, but from the looks of the wage differences it doesn't appear some of them value it more than making the almighty dollar. It appears to me that they understand it better the farther north you go and they're willing to pay to get it, maybe thats cause people demand a better standard there.I've worked for both commercial outfits and residential outfits here and the BEST I've ever made here was 18 an hour, no bennies. Most offers are for 14 or so......Laborers make more!!! (In NYS) than carps here.If this doesn't tell people out there something about what they consider "good pay" then the rose colored glasses are thicker than I imagined...If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
I did the math...I'd have to work 5,117.9 hours here at Okie D.B.rates to make what I can in NYS in 2,080 hrs......isn't that something like 2 1/2 times in duration????If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
To put it another way...I'd only have to work 845.3 hrs in NYS to make what it would take me a year to make here, guess I can always find something to do on the side with the 1235 hour difference....If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
Actually I have to disagree with you. I don't think that people value good construction. They just want plain cheap! i been doing this for 45 years and I was makin 15.00 an hour in the 70's. I moved here from Colorado. Hated the Enviros and the Developers both. ruined a good state. Anyhow Its barely get along down here. Pricing two jobs. One for a Judge and the other for a big time GC. There constant refrain is "Whats cheapest" Its all chip board exterior, termite barf and caulk interiors here. And of course the mexican mafia is big here. But the guys that employ them are worse. Kinda upset though cause the banks in NY are giving mortgages to the illegals (knowingly) if they got a pay stub and light bill. No credit check or hoop jumpin like whitey
For those who fought. Freedom has a special meaning the protected never know.
Somebody else today was telling me almost the same thing about Colorado, have never been there but told it's beautiful......what a shame.....I'm glad I'm from upstate NY, about 100 miles north of Syracuse, way up there....Adirondacks in my back yard and the St. Lawrence out my front porch, Lake Ontario as my side yard....If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
Like your tagline...I was a Marine for 6 years......If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
Norther Adirondaks gotta be cool. Are the people freindly up there. Woodsy type. Don't know if I could handle the winter. Not cause of the cold and heat (I lived up by Vail at 11000ft) but i live simple down here and that means 4 cord of wood a year. (got central heat and air but I'm a cheap SOB) up there it would be more like 8 or 10 cord. I'm 60 years old now. It would probably kill me and I hate fuel oil. I bought 6acres,11yearold house,30x60 barn for 119,000.00. How much would it cost up there. This heat is tempting me to go colder.:) Might go back to CO but there expecting housing to drop 21%.
By the way you haven't told everyone how pretty OK city is :)I was a navy air squadron 4 years 2 on the flight deck off V-NAM
For those who fought. Freedom has a special meaning the protected never know.
Prices seem comparable to upstate. Undeveloped land with hardwoods goes for anywhere from 100-300 an acre. You can still get a small farm with 100 plus acres for under $150,000.Heating costs would be a bit more..the day i flew out of Syracuse for here it was 37 below zero, and my home town a couple years gao got 21 feet of snow in January alone. Sounds like a big deal, but people up there just deal with it and move on...About the only construction that shuts down in the winter there is paving, anything else we just keep on building. Had a concrete pour scheduled there a few years back and we got 5 feet of snow that morning, we poured anyway, and yes, we had no snow in the forms before the pour and we covered and heated with lp heaters for a couple days after wards.....more to follow...If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
People upstate are real friendly, probably some of the best. (Notice I didn't take the NY attitude and say they WERE the best)If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
<I was a navy air squadron 4 years 2 on the flight deck off V-NAM>What aircraft carrier where you on? My dad was on the Corral SeaI believe back in 67'
WE passed the Coral Sea and the Forrestal (all blown to he*l)on the way over in 68 on the "America" Spent 11 months there. Came home got married and three months later got sent back for 11 more months on the Constellation A6-B's..
For those who fought. Freedom has a special meaning the protected never know.
Must be something in the water......here I am at 45 years old and I quote this..."haven't lived yet". Yer a crotchity old geezer and I'm a "pup".....guess expecting to make a decent wage for those 25 years experience is tooooooo much to ask for, never thought of myself as unrealistic....
Least at the rates in NY I'll be able to take the fringes and tuck them away for retirement, which by the way is what a lot of employers are doing up there for the past few years...and I'll still be making approximately 7 bucks an hour more in my take home pay...
If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
I had a 401K when I moved to Tenn. Thought I had it made. Then 911 while I was working in Tulsa on a Talbots and the dot-com bust. i had all the good stuff :) trading in the 50's now there trading in the 2's LOL. Finding good payin work around here is the full time job. You can do the actuall work in your sleep :). Trimmed some "High End" Condos in Gatlinburg. They just wanted the trim up (termite barf) .40 cents a square ft including those high end "split jamb doors". Talked to a painter. said they used 1800 tubes of caulk in a 6 unit building to make it look good. LAughed my A** off...
For those who fought. Freedom has a special meaning the protected never know.
I know the feeling....last summer I had to take and detail 4 houses right before selling....used more caulk in the corners where the drywallers did a hack job it wasn't funny.Know what the builder said?? "For what I'm paying you" ($15 an hour) you shouldn't have had to use caulk. Offered to do the work with drywall compound but he said that would take too much time. Wonder what I was supposed to use?Always complained about taking too much time....potential buyer wanted a different type of tile in the shower, so I had to take down the frameless glass doors, pull the old tile and green board,(they didn't use durock) go to the store, get the durock, back to the job site, install the durock, fill the joints and pull all the crap from the shower pan the contractors screwed up when installing, completely prep it for new tile, in a matter of 6 hours and the builder told me I took too long and wondered what I'd been screwing off doing the rest of the time. I gave him a typical NY'er response.......If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
Its all about turn over and bucks. High end except for the few is a myth. High end around here is 20 more tubes of caulk. To much HGTV and now this Extreme makeover doin these place in 7 days. Would really like to get a look at one of them. K&B did one. i use to frame for them in Colorado. Not much I havent seen a house trimmed out in real wood for 4 or 5 years no matter what the cost.
Old Bill Riley is tearin Hillary,Patacki and Bloomberg a new one about the state of NY and taxes tonight...
For those who fought. Freedom has a special meaning the protected never know.
Piffin
You have to understand the cultural handicap NYers are saddled with. They are raised knowing that they are better than anyone else in the world. I know, I were one.
I know that you lived down here in Texas at one time, don't know if you noticed it or not but I think I could substitute the word Texas for NY in that paragraph! I'm always amazed at the people that I have meet down here who have never left the state of Texas(yea, I know its a big state)some of them think that everything that goes on in the rest of the country started right here in TX.
A lot of great people down here, as well as any other place in the world, same goes for OK. I think NY'er just misses home, I don't blame him, I do to. I think you advised a while back that a move home might just be what the doctor ordered!
Doug
The vein in Texasis more of a good natured braggart swaggering around and enjoying the reactions for th efun of it all, Cowboy style. But the NYrs just plain KNOW. Just ask'm. I've been accused heere of being too much of a know-it-all occasionally. maybe it hasn't all worn off yet!;)When I started on a crew in Lubbock, one old cahloot said, " Yah, my wife is a damn Yankee from up noth too - Amarillo. An Ah'm from back East - east of Dallas..."The old tribal instinct is still alive with all of us, ego-centricitry strengthens tribal bonds and used to ensure survival of the group, but I have enver seen it refined quite like the way a child is raised in the Empire State.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I was born in Texas, and raised by a NYer...so that explains why I'm a swaggering, know-it-all, cowboy yankee.
;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
And just how much above and beyond the tract home builders do the 10,00sq ft. builders pay their carpenters with 25 years experience?? this is after all a comparison on wages and such. Best I could find here was $18.00 an hour and had to fight to get that.Carps Union is 19 and change here...you telling me that there are builders paying better than Davis Bacon wages on private jobs??Best outfit I've worked for down here so far is from Tulsa, a great GC and very good in taking care of his men. You ever want to know what my talents are in carpentry and why I'm squawking like this...you could always talk to him and find out what HE says.....If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
For those of you who don't want to check out the link I provided, here's the trades rankings.....Carpenters-47th $26,370/yr @ 2080 hrs/yr= $12.67Electricians-39th $36,690 @ 2080 hrs/yr= $17.63Plumbers-47th $32,250 @ 2080 hrs/yr= $15.50If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
I did exactly what you said, I looked and sure enough, the costs of living are similar, in fact, I'd have to make a couple dollars an hour more there in NY to enjoy the same standard of living I loath here.With that in mind, I did some research and found out the following facts, right from a State Agency on their website..I won't bore you with all the gory details, but I'm gonna show you carps wages based on davis bacon for Canadian County (Yukon) and Monroe County (NY)Monroe County Base-$22.72 Fringes- $13.13 Total- $35.85Canadian County Base-$12.18 Fringes-$2.39 Total- $14.57Difference $10.54 $10.74 $21.28Now, if memory serves me correctly, the difference in living here/there was about 3500 a year.Hint---I think the difference in wage more than adequately covers that 3 grand......to the tune of about $44,262.40 for a 2080 hour work year. That makes a grand difference of $40,762.40 a year.Would you like the website???If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
And before you tell me Batavia is in Genesee county, which I know anyway, Genesee county goes off Monroe county scales. Rochester is in Monroe county FYI, similar to the situation between OKC and Yukon here....If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
Yea but you make it up in savings on the heat bill come winter!
Doug
true...how true.......did I ever mention state tax rate in NYS is 4% and Okie is 8.75% ?????If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
Dude..... move.....now.
I'm losing money just listening to ya.
Bostons rates have got to be right up there....I know the COL was bad back 10-12 years ago,,had some friends over there.....in Winchester I think, near the state line with NH??If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
Okie is 8.75%
We got something similar down here in Texas, but we dont pay state income taxes!
doug
you lucky dogs you!!! No state taxes, (that's a real concept, eh???)If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
Just one last thing Bass...that "rural" area you spoke of where I came from, and not making a fair comparison...here's St. Lawrence County carp rates.....Base $ 21.51 Fringe $10.45 Total $31.96 x 2080 hrs/yr=$66,476.80Not too bad where the COL is half of what it is here........If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
don't forget to say what part of the country you're in
I think you forgot.
And didn't fill in your profile either.
John
Edited 7/22/2005 11:39 am ET by john
I am in Alabama. A small town called Tuskegee in fact. The two larger markets near me are Montgomery and Auburn. Going rate for labor is around 80/day, skilled is 100/day and up.
Old hash but...
Chicago...(Union) Journeyman Carp..$34.20 hr ($1.00 raise on the check in Oct.)
Apprentice:1st/yr 40% of Journeyman wages
2nd/yr 50%
3rd/yr 65%
4th/yr 80%
Real good Ins.
Pension
Seperate Putnam Act.
My co.offers a 401K
With 3 kids the Ins.is worth its weight in gold.
I pay $6.00 for all perscription drugs.
If generic they are free.
That alone has saved me thousands.
Add that to the hourly wage and what do you come up with?
Wow. I'm horrified by the pay rates I'm seeing. I pay one of my carps $22/hr, he has about 5 years experience framing, all with me. I pay my other carp $17 with 2 years experience, he's been with me for 9 months. When I have laborers I pay $10 to start and bump them to $12 right away if they can do basic carpentry tasks too like layout and install strapping, cut a straight line, read a tape etc.
FWIW, neither of my carps are at the point yet where they could run the show without me. We're getting there, slowly but surely. I love them both like brothers. They work like animals for me and I do my best to take good care of them. Some guys might think I'm crazy paying them what I do, but hey.. I'm making good money and they're a huge part of the reason why. I like for them to know that I appreciate them. We've got a good system going and we're all reaping the benefits. I just wish I could afford real benefits for them (and myself for that matter). I do give them nice bonuses when we finish a frame ahead of schedule though.
We work in the suburbs west of Boston.
In the wash dc area ,labor is 8-15/hr; the avg is probably 12. the range for carpenters is about 18-35. Self employed folks and contractors charge anywhere from 35 to 100/hour.I pay my helper 15-20 and charge 45-65 for myself ,depending on the circumstances.
Boston
Laborer - 26.00 HR
Carpenter - 32.00 HR
Superintendent - 47.00 HR or 100.000 a year
I'm a super here in Boston . With the stress involved in the job , it's still not enough .
Mike- Foxboro
Is it harder to be a super in Boston than anywhere else?
I was a super in the mountains of N.C., made $36,400, health insurance and 1 week paid vacation with 3 years of superintendent experience, building a 6000 sq. ft. multi-million dollar custom with enough stress to make me quit and start my own venture.
The median income in my county for a family of four is $52,000 and the average house sells for $200,000 +. Multi-million dollar vacation/second homes going up all over the place and workers still getting paid like they were working on shacks.
The highest wage I made as a carpenter was $15/hr plus health insurance(paid health insurance and paid vacation is uncommon in the trades here) about 4 years ago. I'm about as skilled as they come in this area, hence the reason I was able to start my business and find work.
At the time I was working on a 7000 sq.ft custom that was going to cost the homeowner about $4 million not including the $1 million dollar lot it was on. It was their 3rd home!
Boston is tough . It's also tough if you happen to be Union , which I am . You have to deal with the B.A.'s , the subs , the police , the fire dept. The owners , your own people . If I wasn't married with three kids , I would gladly put the tools back on . The pay is good yes , but the hair is gettin gray .
Mike - Foxboro
Agreed! About five or six years ago I was offered 80K plus per diem to super a job in Boston. I turned it down, mainly knowing that I would be out of my element anmoung unions there
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I am hiring good frame carpenters in Florida from 15 to 19, and need lead guys to run crew from 19 to 23 an hour. Framing nearly 450 homes a year.
I'm scheduled to take the Michigan Builders License Exam next Friday, but after reading this thread, I may rethink my twenty-five year construction career.
Why is it that if your neighbor wants his batrhroom remodeled he shops around for the lowest price, but he wouldn't come over bragging about how cheaply he got his hair cut or his tooth filled? Why is it than when your kid is sick, the cost of the doctor is much less important than competence or proximity?
I could finish college if I set my mind to it and maybe get into health care where prices are rising. Mo money, mo money, mo money.
Or how about when their Mercedes E320 needs a repair, they don't hesitate to pay their Mercedes mechanic I would think at least $60/hr to fix it. Many people want a Mercedes but are only willing to pay for a Yugo including many G.C.'s out there.
Take the test . If anything you owe it to yourself . When you get your License make up your own mind . Having your License will put you in the control seat . I'm trying to change things out there for the better . Maybe you can too.
Mike - Foxboro
Skilled lead man gets $25 per hour. "Good" carpenter gets $15-18. Strictly labor gets $8. I'm in very rural Colorado and I pay better than other locals if I judge by the rumor mill info.
"A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel." Robert Frost
Has Hasbeen been had?
A person with no sense of humor about themselves is fullashid
I hate to sound greedy but this is why I got out of the trade. My last job was as a lead carpenter for a large remodeler. Supplied ALL my own tools. Everything from compressor, table saw, mitersaw, tilesaw to ladders and sawhorses. Everything. Did everything from framing to tile and brick work. On high end jobs. $15.00 an hour. No benefits. 40 hours a week max. I made $15.56 an hour as a union foreman in 1985!! I started as a framer in 1976 for $3.00 an hour LOL. Went to work in a Goodyear tire plant, three years ago, for $30.00 an hour. Unlimited overtime and full medical, dental, vision and drug benefits. Paid holidays and vacations. Yes, I would much rather be building but $30,000 a year vs $70,000+ a year is a no brainer for me. Now I build for myself cause I can afford it.
Mark
Went to work in a Goodyear tire plant, three years ago, for $30.00 an hour. Unlimited overtime and full medical, dental, vision and drug benefits. Paid holidays and vacations.
That's because people don't see actors on TV trying to make their own tires. They are willing to pay a premium price for a quality tire.
These days television, and big box stores are expanding their customer base by convincing every homeowner that they can build/remodel their own house in 60 minutes, with commercials.
Now homeowners feel the three best tools to have when doing their home remodel is a video camera a sick kid and a make-up kit.
"These days television, and big box stores are expanding their customer base by convincing every homeowner that they can build/remodel their own house in 60 minutes"
Justin,
EXTREMELY well said.
WSJ
out of curiosity----where is your tire plant?
I am in akron , Ohio
and HERE---things worked the reverse !!!!
that is---in the 70's and 80's when the tire plants shut down------a lot of the tire builders bought paint brushes and hammers---and were suddenly " contractors"
I don't fault you however---- most of my town was built with tire company money--one way or the other
Heck---my neighborhood is " Firestone Park"-----and we have another one " Goodyear Heights"
your blimp flies overhead almost every day here----sometimes several fying together in formation.
best wishes, Stephen
DUSTINF,
working in a tire plant, what is the philosophy behind the Post Office still doing re-treads - - - versus new tires. Dont delivery drivers at all ranks deserve to have the reassurance that their company stands behind them with a solid new tire vs. retreads? The time has come to double check "the books" & hold the executive decision makers accountable for not allocating money to the "right places" versus their own pockets!
Edited 7/24/2005 4:28 pm ET by chipper
Chipper,
I don't work in a tire plant
and---you would have to talk to the Post Office about your question
Best wishes anyway
Stephen
LOL
Many times over, I'm sure!
My problem is that the memory of being the one hired for labor and carpentry is too fresh... I sympathize too much with those now doing what I once did."A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel." Robert Frost
The salesman from Nationwide Labor, left a card the other day, (along with some note pads). Can get a Day Laborer (AKA, Rent A-Rummi) for $10.85 per hr. all taxs & ins included. They must pay the guy $6 an hr, $35 a day.
Bob's company pays pretty well. Since Feb, he has worked for them as a Quality Assurance Inspector (sheetrock to finish.) Ten to twelve hour days, but he loves it.
They build upper-end condos and apartments. Supers make between $95,000 and $120,000. The Warranty Tech makes $70,000 and has headhunters trying to lure him away gauranteeing him $30,000 above that.
Bob says experienced framers here make $25-$30. (Sacramento, CA)
His favorite saying lately is:
"I used to work for a living....I used to be a General Contractor..."
He's just damn happy he doesn't have to drop bills and collect money anymore.
cheers!
Bay Area, California rates for time and materials labor:
Foreman: $60/hour billing, he gets about $45 and a basic health plan (Kaiser)
Senior Carpenter: $50/hour billing, he gets about $40; health plan ditto
Carpenter: $40/hour, Gets $30, basic health
Labor from Contractor's Labor Pool (CLP) sub contractors:
Carpenter: $50/hour billing, gets less than the Senior carpenter in take home;
Laborer: $21.50/hour, as above
Day laborer: $18/hour, all goes to him, no insurance, no guaranteed minimum rate.Others: (for interest)
Senior Electrician: $90/hour
Junior Electrician: $65/hour
Helper $45/hourLow Voltage Electrician (Audio/Phone Systems, Home network)
Senior Designer: $110/hour
Senior Installer: $75/hour
Installer: $60.hourPlumber: more than anybody else on the job...If it's useful.
GC runs 13% "overhead" and 6% "profit"; makes it on his subs more than his employees...
NotaClue