I’ve read with interest the thread on ‘payment terms’ – I, and my fellow board members, are about finished sheparding a $750K library addition project to completion – –
there is a punch list which is (too slowly) being checked off – – we have had an amiable relationship with the GC, even tho we have gone far beyond the original completion date goal –
the archy has presented a bill for the balance due to wrap the project (because of the financing situation, the project’s $ is resting with the local ‘community foundation’ – the archy presents us with a ‘bill’, we check off on it, send it on to the foundation that is underwriting the project, she checks off on it and sends it on to the community foundation, who cuts the check – – who said community service was simple?) – –
I haven’t kept close track, but generally payment has been made as phases have been completed (this foundation/archy/GC troika have done a number of projects together and are happy with this system)
well, now this thing has drug on for about 3 months too long, everyone is making bag on big projects, and this little punch list is an annoyance – – the electrician is the worst offender, and has been the least professional of all the subs – – if he sees his money we’ll never see him again, and we don’t want to, but he needs to finish the job –
it is our plan to hold this final bill until the sparkie does his job, even tho it holds up payment to some others who are 100% done – – the money goes thru the GC, so we don’t have any way to lean on just the electrician – –
I don’t know what I am seeking from the BT group, unless it is validation that we are acting reasonably – – the project concept has been executed well, workmanship has be good, hopefully the elevator will finally pass inspection tomorrow – re-dedication is Saturday – the landscaper didn’t get the sod in last friday and now the area has had 6+inches of rain, the sod farm is flooded and library grounds are a quagmire, and it’s thundering again as I type this – –
Replies
Believe it or not - Need more info.
1. What type of elec. things need to be done: Circuit panel issues, face plates, light bulbs, fixture installation, etc?
2. You state that the punch list is being checked off "slowly." Is this due to conditions like weather, material availability or something else?
3. What % are you holding?
4. It's the GC's responsibility to get the job completed regardless of what trade is doing the actual work. Don't deal with the sparkie, only the GC. This way the GC has you working on him/ her from one end and the sub from the other end.
5. Is the punch list "growing" as time goes by? I stand by all my work but clients seem to find more punch list stuff the longer I take to complete it. It's the nature of the beast but .......
As a GC I would not expect to be paid prior to the inspections and if in my contract, prior to the completion of the landscaping. I might submit a final invoice early though if the release of payments take a long time.
F.
big picture: slow punch out - - nothing extra-ordinary going on, punch list is getting smaller, it's just been a matter of no one being on the job - - other jobs going where the crew is busy - I/we understand it's a PITA to pull off and drag tools out and set up to run 30' of baseboard, repair wall where new boxes were set, fix/make right a (new) tottering toilet tank, fix (new) sticky doors and align lock, put locks on cupboards - - the (new) boiler leaks, ever so slightly (needs a big plug removed, gooped, retightned - probably HVAC sub would have to do) - hole in exterior masonry where old service came in needs patched - - nothing not in original plans, and indeed most of that list got taken care of last week - -
electrician, however...outlet covers (several places), lights in entry closets, power to computer desks (this really pizzes me off, he came, worked a day, had the circuit to the computer center ran, didn't heat it up, didn't swedge the ends on the Ethernet cables, 'see ya later', nothing for two weeks - I ran an extension cord to the computers and had a friend swedge the ends so our patrons could get back on line) - - east wall outlets, community room (surface mount conduit on old wall - pre-existing ones were removed for work) - outlet in utility area (drop a conduit out of an existing box) - switch/cover for display in 'Indiana room' (now a box with wires sticking out) - timer for outside lights - receptacle for microwave, receptacle for stove (boxes are set with wires hanging out) - label electrical circuits at breaker box (why wouldn't you do that as you go?) - cover for large chase - (I'll take a picture of one of the conduits going out of the chase - way too full in my opinion, we are not asking for any fix there) - - it's obviously a PITA, lots of different tools/items for niggling little jobs, but it's gotta be done - - no curve balls, nothing that's not been on the list for literally months - -
I don't have a figure on how much $ we are setting on, I'll be at the site and check later today - it's significant - - like I say, the GC is amiable, there's been no acrimony, and he was the one that added some items to the punch list a couple of weeks ago - no sense of urgency, at least not by the contractors --
if the electrician had been professional, we'd take a chance on the other minor stuff and pay off, I am unable to trust him, however - -
the elevator is up to Otis, hopefully will pass inspection tomorrow (complex and wonderful - most service over the phone lines, it was interesting to observe the installation) - the landscaping is our deal, and not a factor except I just needed to vent - - scheduled 24 hours sooner and we would all have looked like geniuses - so it goes - "there's enough for everyone"
Don't pay until the project is substantially complete. This doesn't mean that absolutely every little thing is taken care of but you have a very long list. I am sure that the gc is well aware of this and is sufficiently well capitalized that he is not in a big financial crunch. Keep bugging him. This will be a lot more motivation than a check. He has undoubtedly been having problems with this electrician before now and your complaints (calmly and pleasantly delivered) will force him to deal with this to your benefit and ultimately his as well.
Ask your GC how to handle it.
Tell him you can't pay in full at this stage but you would like to get him some of his money.
Make him come up with a number, this will force him to see your fear of non-completion if you paid him off.
You can still resolve this with everyone's feelings intact.
Terry
around here they hold 10% till 30 days after 100% complete and some jobs have liquidated damages.
went to the site today and worked on my punch list - (we are responsible for some of the conservation work on the original structure) talked to our director and checked out the 'bill' - - we are only talking $8200, not much more than 1% of the project, so we do not have much leverage to make anyone jump - -
also found where sparkie cut two holes in our newly refurbished ceiling - we (we contracted for it outside of the scope of the original project) took an acoustic tile ceiling down, drywalled and and put a pleasant lace texture - - while the ceiling was exposed the electrician was suppose to run wiring - - hell, he only had 3 weeks to get it done - - so he shows up late and cuts holes in the ceiling!
this has moved beyond annoyance...
thanks for the advice, I'll talk to the GC tomorrow, pleasantly and under control, but I'll guarantee that bill won't be paid until that electrician has every single item wrapped to everyones satisfaction."there's enough for everyone"
>'Indiana room'
are you in the hoosier state? or is that a kentucky joke in disguise...
remodeler
re: Indiana Room
ya - Hoosier by birth, Boilermaker by the grace of God - - the room holds local history, geneology, artifacts, and a bunch of other stuff that we don't know what else to do with - -
edit to add: the town is 'Roann'
"there's enough for everyone"
Edited 6/14/2004 11:06 pm ET by David Doud