Looking into getting a framing gun and compressor. Ran across this deal.
Porter-Cable CPFFR350 3-1/2″ Round Head Framing Nailer & 3HP Compressor Kit
Porter-Cable
List Price: $849.99
Price: $469.99
You Save: $380.00 (45%)
Details:
http://www.tool-zone.com/f/Framing_Nailer/Porter_Cable_CPFFR35_B000051WU0.htm
A friend claims it is good “well worth the money” and it will keep up and last about as long as any other rig. Another claims it is shlock, barely usable for assembling bird houses and it won’t make it a week on a real job.
Anybody familiar with this kit? While specific information on this particular kit would be most helpful, brand information or opinions on similar products are welcome.
If it matters, use may determine suitability, I will be building a small garage in the near future. Nothing big. Just something like 16′ by 20′ with a simple truss roof. I have a very limited experience with nail guns and compressors. To date, with a few exceptions, I have gotten by with elbow power and a thumb smacker.
Replies
I have the PC FR350 gun and like it quite alot. The gun can be had by itself for $228 at the borg. I'm not a real fan of the oil-less compressors such as the PC. They just don't last as well, and are noisy. REALLY noisy. Shop-vac noisy. I'm probably going to get black listed here for saying this, but I have a Harbor Freight pancake compressor to run my guns and, frankly, it's a really nice compressor. Oil lube compressor, 2 HP claimed motor, kinda heavy but works well. Oh yeah, cheap as hell. I picked it up at the store for $90. It's not an Emglo or a Thomas, but frankly, its a heck of a lot better than many of those selling for twice or three times the price.
Mike Prisbylla
Trav,
Like you, I hate to admit that I also have a HF pancake compressor. You're right about it being heavy. My biggest complaint is that the range is 80# to just less than 125#. This is too low, and I have to set about 50% of the finished nails shot and hammer home a good majority of the full round head 3" nails. When I tried to adjust the pressure switch, the relief popped off at me. How is the pressure range on your compressor, and are you able to adjust it to adequately seat the nails?
BTW, when I bought the compressor, the oil drainage plug was leaking. The rubber washer was split. Rather than hunting for a factory replacement, I found that a rubber washer for a faucet worked great. It hasn't leaked since.
Thanks
I just bought the same PC compressor from Amazon for $249, the nailgun goes for $228. That totals to $477 so your not saving much. If you want both PC items, go for it! Amazon likes to make you think your getting a great deal by giving you such an inflated price, (that no one would pay) for an item.
I know what you mean about pricing. Many, if not most, of the internet supply houses that carry this kit work through Amazon. Most of those who don't use the same price and those few remaining use a lower list price but jack up the shipping and handling to more than make up any savings.
Most of these only reveal the S&H charges three screens in and just before you make the final order. One or two internet companies keep it a secret until you see the credit card bill as they use a sliding scale for distance and don't include provision for this calculation on their site. If you dig around you can usually find a general listing of this cost but you have to dig and get by with a rough estimate.
I was thinking there was competition and that there would be some undercutting of prices but I suspect that PC refuses to sell to any one that goes below their set point. The same thing happens at gas stations. Not uncommon to see three or four gas stations selling at the same price or within a fraction of a cent of each other. I keep hearing about free market capitalism but I see less and less of it.
Home Despot wanted $450 but with 6% sales tax it exceeded the internet sites. Lowe's didn't have it in stock. I found this amazing as they carry PC nail guns. When I asked they offered to special order the kit for me. Real nice guys as they would only charge me $703. I had them run the numbers again as my jaw swung open. They claimed that that was their best price seeing as that this was a special order for only one unit. They assured me that the unit price would go down if I would just order a larger number. I explained that I needed only one. I also suggested that they might want to cut their price a bit and declined, after much consideration (Hmm. $703 or $470. Tough choice.), having them order it for me. Amazon and HF at least ship for free and seem to have most everything in stock. So what you see is, for the most part, what you pay.
I'll let you know how it goes but I am leaning toward a cheap, $100, HF pancake compressor and the FR350 framer from Amazon. Seeing as that the compressor will be driven hard running nail guns, only one gun at a time as I get exceedingly poor nail placement working two at once, maybe one a year. The rest of the time will be an air ratchet, blow gun to get dust out of equipment and inflating a tire or two so I suspect the HF cheapy might do me for quite some time.
Amazon just sent me a message that there would be a delay with shipping my compressor. I have never ordered anything from them before but it was $20 less than locally with no sales tax or shipping! I can deal with a delay since I won't need it until May.
The lack of tax and shipping was a powerful, about $38 or 17%, influence. I have ordered several times from Amazon, both books and tools, and have had nothing but good experiences.
One thing to watch out for is ordering from Amazon affiliates. I ordered an out of print book and have yet, despite e-mails and requests, to see any return after 6 months. I'm out about $40 with little in the way of recourse. I have taken it up with the credit card company but I have little hope of a refund. So be careful and order only from well established companies. A cheap, but frustrating, lesson.
FWIW-
I own the smaller 2hp PC pancake compressor and a FR350 gun. The double firing that some have mentioned can be easily corrected by obtaining the single fire trigger (i.e. non-bump fire) from PC. After that I've had no major problems, but the gun has jammed a few times and it is a pain to unjam. I don't use it every day but overall it's a great small and portable rig. If I used it every day for framing or roofing, I'd probably get a different compressor. Otherwise I have no regrets.
The PC FR350 framer came in last week. The HF 2HP pancake compressor came in this afternoon. I think they shopped it on its side as it was covered in oil. The filler cap/dipstick was very loose so I think the small amount, maybe 4 oz of oil they ship with was lost. Took some time to wipe everything off.
I added the 350ml bottle of oil to the crankcase and changed out the small barded connector it comes with with the female quick disconnect they were kind enough to provide. They also gave me an adapter that that has a male quick disconnect and a barb end. Handy if I want to throw on a piece of tubing. Can't imagine the need but if I want to I can.
I will have to look into the Mobile One oil. They specify a non-detergent oil. Is Mobile One non-detergent? I guess I need to dig out my old hose, blow gun and automatic chisel. And get some nails to fit my gun.
I'll post back with how everything works out. Maybe with some gnarly photos of nails sticking out of body parts. ;)
I just gave the PC FR350 framing gun and HF 2HP 4gal pancake compressor combination a go. No great work out mind you but I shot something like 30-12d and 50-8d brights. No problems, no jams or double shots. I bump fired about 30-8d in a row without anything resembling a double shot.
I tried out the depth adjustment and it seemed to work well but I was, while making an adjustment, thinking the gun with the dial in ,toolless, depth adjustment would be nice. Still I was able to get the heads just flush reliably without too much trouble and haven't messed with the compressor settings. Toe-nailing was easy with the 12d. The gun easily sunk the 12d nails in a PT 4by4.
The compressor kept up with the gun and while I'm no where near experienced and fast the 30 shot string of 8ds at about two per second went in with the last one sunk well. The compressor didn't seem to labor and caught up a few seconds after the run.
In conclusion I am pleased with the gun. With only limited testing it does everything I want it to do, so far. The compressor is a pleasant surprise. At $105 with handling, free shipping, I was expecting a fairly anemic performer barely able to keep up and would have been satisfied with it. Grumbling with an eye toward getting a better one but satisfied with the value for the money spent.
This compressor might be a little light for commercial production in sheathing or roofing but I think it would do well for trim and some framing. It certainly looks to cover, as I'm an electrician who is building for myself, my needs. If you get one you might want to take off the shroud and check all the fasteners for tightness. I found a few loose. None in critical locations.
One thing I hadn't expected was that it has a sight glass on the pump body for checking the oil fill. A nice touch. Its not mentioned in the manual but the dip stick fill mark lines up with the top of the sight glass. I will know more about it as it ages and gets a work out but for now I think its a good deal.
Regarding Amazon and Pricing....
The computer site Slashdot.org (I'ma computer geek most of the time) had a link to an interesting story on Amazon.com's pricing habits.
I also read the comments about it from Slashdot users. Apparently, Amazon can present you with different pricing depending on your browser, operating system, ISP, time of day, number of visits, phase of the moon ;-)....
I won't shop there.
T.
In retail this practice has been termed "price point hunting" if I remember right. Your selling a product. You raise or lower the price a bit, sometimes a substantial bit, and see what happens with sales.
Remarkable things can happen. Sometimes raising the price sells more. I'm told this is because customers see a more expensive product as more desirable. Sometimes lowering the price can lower sales. At some point many people think there must be something wrong with a cheap product. Sometimes relatively small changes can make a big difference.
This is also why you see the $.99 or $.95 added to so many prices. Mentally people discount any portion lower than a dollar. Research shows that most people are just as willing to pay $10.99 as $10.
This process can fine tune the profitability of sales. If your selling a product for $1 when the customers would just as well pay $2 there is little reason not to raise prices.
I suspect that the results shown are not actually linked to the browser or ISP used. Most likely it is a randomly generated variation that is logged into the cookie that is put on the machine involved. This would yield better pricing information for Amazon to use than linking the price with the browser or ISP used. It also explains the change in the price when the cookies are deleted. I suspect the researchers haven't repeated the test enough, or lack sufficient knowledge of marketing, to get good repeatable results and interpret the changes in pricing behavior.
Nothing all that nefarious about this scheme. It is common to most retail operations. They just do it slower. Often taking weeks between pricing changes. It sometimes takes months for a brick and mortar retail outlet to get usable results. Amazon is just doing it faster and in a form, internet sales, that allows you to repeat the pre sales pricing procedure in a time frame that allows people to notice the changes.
How did you think people decided what sells for what price? Ouija boards? It's not just cost plus profit margin any more.
You should check on the factory specs for your gun. Mine reccomends 75-120 psi or something like that. I think that too much pressure might cause premature seal failure. If it's not sinking the nails all the way, try removing the rubber nose piece or adjusting the depth setting.
BTW, I'm really pleased with the HF compressor. A tip to anyone with an oil lube compressor, use full synthetic motor oil (such as Mobil one) for crankcase lube. Extends the life of the compressor quite a bit.
Mike Prisbylla
Pittsburgh PA
I'm getting off this thread a tad, but I noticed you recommended fully synthetic motor oil for use in a compressor. I made the same suggestion a while ago in a previous thread to someone who had a compressor outside in a cold climate that would barely turn over in the cold winter. But as I noted in that thread, the mfr. of my compressor specifically warned not to use the stuff. I think (just a guess) automotive motor oils are high detergent, (ie. they keep dirt in suspension), specially formulated "compressor oils" are probably not. If this is the case, dirt will settle out and not cause additional wear. Since you change the oil on a car regularly this is good, but most people never do on a compressor, so you would want it to settle out. Just an educated guess.
Jon
Sounds good to me. I have a friend who does research for the API (American Petroleum Institute) who either would know or could find a source for information. I might send him an e-mail. Who knows. I might learn something.
I agree with the other poster who said oilless comps are noisy, as I have a PC 6 HP, 20 gal comp. It works well, though. As far as the compressor itself, if you only plan to run one framing gun, the comp should be all right. But if you are going to be using two or more guns or two staplers, you will need the capacity of a larger comp. As far as the gun goes, I've heard mixed reviews about the PC's. I've heard a lot of complaints of them double firing on JLC's framing forum. My main concern would be availability and code acceptance of round head vs. clipped head nails in your area. Some codes require one over the other, and therefore your local suppliers will have greater availabilty of whichever nail is most commonly used. In my locale, clip heads are more common and therfore supplies of those are greater. Keep in mind, also, that there are many more clip-head nailers than there are full round head versions.
I have the framing gun and its nice, Never jammed yet, they make a magnesium version of it, If I were to do it again I would get that one, I dont use mine everyday, but it gets used frequently so I cant saw how it will last under constant abuse.
I do not know where you are from but look up your local Porter Cable "store" in the yellow pages for your area, if you cant find it there http://www.portercable.com has a dealer locator, give them a call chances are they have one refurbished and you can save a few buck, same warranty.
I bought mine that way, paid a little over 150 for the gun alone but the guy told me it was a special deal since I was buying a few other things, so I dont know what they usually go for refurb'd, though I have a feeling the deal wasnt all that speacial anyway.
Edited 2/26/2003 4:02:07 PM ET by CAG