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Pellet Stove? Not this Winter!

Nuke | Posted in Energy, Heating & Insulation on December 23, 2005 05:30am

For the past couple of months, I have been flirting with the idea of buying a pellet stove. Only problem is that the longer I pondered the idea the more scarce the stove became, the higher the asking price for the stove, and now the 200-300% increase in price for pellet-fuels (along with the inversely-proportional availability) is reached a pinnicle conclusion.

So, I have decided not to consider a pellet stove for this Winter. I’ve learned my lesson (I think), and maybe too well. If I consider a backup means of heating my family-room* and near-adjacent areas on my first floor, I think it must be by some other means more affordable and more readily available.

* My family room is 16’x18′ and semi-vaulted with 18′ ceilings. There is a 4′ wide by 8′ high opening to the second floor, thus heated air can certainly ‘travel’.

I have what I call a token fireplace. My home is a five (5) year old track/cookie home, and the token fireplace is ‘suppose’ to be both for burning NG and wood. Of course, I just looked at the metal tags on the unit and its a Heatilator Model B42 telling me to burning wood or use a decorative gas logs. Decorative logs? This sounds like one should not attempt to heat by gas logs, and the use of gas logs is for decorative purposes only. Anyway, pics coming in a moment.

Oh yeah, I’m thinking about wood-stove insert, which is why I am posting.

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Replies

  1. User avater
    Nuke | Dec 23, 2005 05:48pm | #1

    http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat20.jpg

    http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat21.jpg

    http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat22.jpg

    http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat23.jpg

  2. Dave45 | Dec 23, 2005 05:53pm | #2

    About a week ago, the Wall Street Journal had an article about stoves that burn corn.  I didn't see the article, but a customer told me about it.  Apparently they're sorta like pellet stoves but use corn for fuel.  The cost per million BTU's was way less than for other fuels.  I don't know if they're in production but it sure sounded interesting.

    BTW, the customer and I already did the jokes about mixing in some popcorn and making a snack while heating the house - lol.

    1. User avater
      Nuke | Dec 23, 2005 05:57pm | #3

      Yep, I learned about them 3-4 weeks ago. They are even more scarce then regular wood-pellet stoves. I know of no one in my area that can even order one, they are slightly more expensive than wood-pellet, but I think they can burn both corn and wood-pellet.

      But, considering the ability of our country to produce corn this is probably the best thing farmers can do for Winter revenue. No, not growing in the Winter, but the corn being in high-demand.

      Anyway, my fireplace is actually an E42 model, and I think the token gas burner is a GR6. I found the manual online and reading it now: http://content.hearthnhome.com/downloads/installManuals/E36-39-42INSTALL.PDF

      Trying to determine if the flue/chimney for this unit will handle wood/pellet-burning insert or wood/pellet-burning freestanding with coupled flue/chimney. Don't wish to abuse the stack designed for this particular product.

    2. User avater
      MarkH | Dec 23, 2005 06:10pm | #4

      I saw one in a county fair (Darke Co. OH) in corn country.  Man that thing was HOT!. Course it was like 95 outside, but that thing was HOT!  And it really smelled good burning, plus I could see no smoke.

      1. DanH | Dec 23, 2005 06:42pm | #5

        Yeah, and all the popcorn you can eat!
        If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people

        happy?

    3. TJK | Jan 07, 2006 11:12pm | #18

      "The cost per million BTU's was way less than for other fuels."May be true, but how many gallons of gasoline are burned bringing the corn husks home? At present prices ($13/therm NG, $200/ton pellets), pellet stoves have about the same operating cost as a natural gas furnace. Corn husks may be cheaper than pellets but look at the costs associated with getting them in the burner and the loss of convenience. IMO there is a lot of hype about these things and buyers assume they are going to save big bucks on their heating. once the installation and maintenance costs are factored in, pellet stoves really aren't such a good deal after all.

      1. User avater
        Nuke | Jan 07, 2006 11:23pm | #19

        Doesn't matter what it costs to manufacturer and deliver the wood pellets. It only matters what the consumer pays for it at the end. Not like drilling for and distribution of NG is free.

        1. TJK | Jan 08, 2006 12:35am | #20

          "Doesn't matter what it costs to manufacturer and deliver the wood pellets."So if I pay $50 to have a ton of pellets delivered, that cost doesn't matter? You might want to revisit the logic in that.The total cost of pellet fuel has to include delivery, taxes, and disposal if we're going to compare it with NG. Around here people are spending $2K-$3K for pellet stoves that are no more efficient and cost the same to operate as an $1100 DV gas heater. Somehow they think they're saving money.

          1. User avater
            Nuke | Jan 11, 2006 04:40pm | #22

            A $50 delivery fee seems darn small compared to some of the $500 NG bills some are getting now. NG in my neck of the woods is considered a luxury by the suppliers. Of course, where I grew up that is not the case. And because of the local southern mentality, they'll spend a heck of a lot more on non-fuel account fees for NG than a $50 delivery charge for the season.

          2. TJK | Jan 11, 2006 06:56pm | #24

            Yes, those miscellaneous fees and taxes on gas bills are a nuisance - in the Summer they're anout 20% of the total. I've read that most pellet stove owners burn 2-3 tons per heating season. That $50 delivery charge might be doubled as most folks don't have enough dry storage space for the mountain of bags needed to cover a whole season.Truth be told, coal-fired pellet stoves would be a real bargain in terms of fuel cost because coal is about 1/4 the price of NG for equivalent BTUs. But how many harried home owners and medicated mini-van moms are going to put up with the dirt and ashes from coal?Good, fast, cheap, pick any two...

  3. Mooney | Dec 23, 2005 07:27pm | #6

    Your profile does not list where you are and thats a reacurring problem to a lot of threads.

    In the area I live in there is no other logical choice but wood as all the coal has expired.

    Theres a feeling I get from burning with wood thats self sufficient. There are many choices of wood supplies .

    The goverment gives it away in tree cutting areas and all down timber.

    People lose trees every year and pay to have it removed.

    All roads and right of ways are public. If a tree falls in a right of way the tree is free for the taking . Normally I carry a small trimmers saw in the tool box as thats the easiaest method assumming one is driving a pick up or van.

    People sell wood off the stump to get it cleared and often give it away in their own wood lots . They want lumber trees to stay and want the "junk" such as Hickory thinned. Of course people own their own wood lots too for their own use.

    Currently wood is selling here for 35 to 40 per rick or 80 per cord. Thats cheaper than any utility. Its also split and stacked for those prices. Pick up prices at a wood lot are 25 per rick. Uhaul and load.

    Ive bought from hardwood mills before . Ive used bundles of hardwood slabs that come a little over 8 fet long and are 4x4 ft square or larger which makes a cord per bundle . The bundle sells for 15 dollars and must be cut to length but they offer free loading on a trailer or flat bed truck. I once hired a dump truck to deliver 4 bundles dumped for a full winters supply which cut up to over 8 ricks of 2ft wood. 60 for the wood and 60 to the driver for a short haul . 120 dollars for the winter and some saw work. The only way that works is to have an ash dump under the stove . The ones that dont have that option is a pos going that route. It is a prefered method however for out side wood furnaces that take 4 ft lengths. The have a shaker grate and a large ash panthat will pull out into the yard for removal. Those customers order 8 bundles per load on a 4 ton with a lift on the back.

    The new wood I will be trying is their end cuts . After a logs sides are shaved into slabs the ends are sqaured and cut to length. Those end up being 3 to 6 inches in end cut length to 6to 10 inches sqaure normally. Many of those come from the butt of the tree and are very heavy wood providing longer burning times . Since the out side of the tree is gone and you are burning the heart of the tree and there  there is little ash. Thats attractive in an insert or wood stove thats large with out an ash dump. Lots easiar than handleing 2 foot wood . If you get 16 inch wood , you will be charged the same price per rick losing 8 inches per stick. That makes the cut wood considerable higher delivered. Cost here loaded is 15 dollars per load. My case , I got two cords on my load stacked.

    Tim

     

     

    1. User avater
      Nuke | Dec 23, 2005 08:44pm | #7

      Mooney, with all due respect my profile shows I live in the 30519 zipcode. If this is sufficient then my apologies. I am tied to the township of Buford, GA, but I do not live within the city limits. In fact, I live a lot closer to another township that I am not tied to. Was the zipcode I have listed in my profile that difficult to consume?

      1. User avater
        jocobe | Dec 23, 2005 10:22pm | #8

        Georgia?....Does it get cold there?I live in Maryland and corn is more expensive then pellets, or it was last time I checked. I always buy pellets in the middle of the summer and store them in a shed just for that prurpose. Otherwise you get hosed on the price.View Image

        1. User avater
          Nuke | Dec 24, 2005 03:58pm | #11

          I guess it depends on what you call cold, and what you consider to be cold enough to want to generate heat. Its currently 28ºF outside (WC 23ºF). Heats been on several times during the night to maintain 58-60ºF inside. Right now, I know of no one selling available inventory on pellets (well, not at crack-pricing). A two-day brief interruption in caveman abilities took the first floor to 45ºF, some 10 degrees colder than my walkout basement. Yeah, I think Atlanta might get a little nippy once in a while.

      2. Mooney | Dec 24, 2005 01:47am | #9

         Was the zipcode I have listed in my profile that difficult to consume?

        So Im supposed to click on your profile then go to a zipcode locator .

        Have a nice day.

        Tim

         

        1. User avater
          Nuke | Dec 24, 2005 04:02pm | #12

          So Im supposed to click on your profile then go to a zipcode locator

          Well, I thought I was being more precise. I cannot expect everyone to know where Gwinnet County is in the state of Georgia. I don't live in Atlanta, Savannah, or some other highly-recognizable township. There is no pleasing everyone in everything, and you are proof in the profile. So, how would you prefer to see people specify their location? I'm editing mine now to meet whatever preferences you have, but I leave it to you to define the precision.

          1. User avater
            MarkH | Dec 24, 2005 04:33pm | #13

            Did you mean Gwinnet(T) county? I'd just say north georgia or outside of Atlanta.  I think most people only want a general regional location. If you want the axe murders to find you a street location and zipcode would be appropriate.  As for zipcodes, I just click and slide them onto the google toolbar and get an instant map. I like that.  I used to work over in Cobb county some (not construction).  I love northern Georgia especially the NW corner.

          2. VaTom | Dec 24, 2005 04:38pm | #14

            How's this http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=17&n=4206494&e=702713&layer=DRG25  for precision?  X marks the spot.  LOL

            I remembered your location from your other postings that apparently Tim didn't see.  But I found your zip code annoying too.  Not often we need that much precision.  In your case, Atlanta area, or even N. Georgia would suffice.

            Several of us have mentioned central Va, which is close enough for anybody who doesn't live here.  After that, it's simple to ask.

             PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

          3. User avater
            Nuke | Dec 24, 2005 04:50pm | #15

            I've updated my profile. :)

            Now, if I could get someone to carpet bomb my location with some corn or wood pellets ...

          4. VaTom | Dec 24, 2005 05:12pm | #16

            That's one looong dialup load that I cut short.  Also uses Google, which I avoid for their archiving policies.  Other than that, interesting.  <G>

            Can't help you with pellets or corn, but if you want a rather large wood boiler, I've got a surplus one.  Assuming you've got a semi, you can haul home a few hardwood cords while you're here.  Mostly it just rots in the woods.  We don't burn much.  Or get cold, even though we've had snow/ice on the ground for 2 wks now.  PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

          5. User avater
            maddog3 | Dec 24, 2005 09:42pm | #17

            Up here , shelled corn $6 / 100#, but I don't know how dry it is...

    2. byoung0454 | Jan 11, 2006 06:08pm | #23

      All roads and right of ways are publicThat may be the case in your state, but in Missouri the right of way is still private property. Now if the state or county have a setback on roads that is state or county property, but in the case of utility right of ways that property is still private property.

  4. TTF | Dec 24, 2005 09:04am | #10

    What region do you live in? I bought pellets for $165 last year and $178 this year. The farm store told the price increase was due to the fuel cost to deliver them. I live in Oregon where most of the pellets are manufactured. It the only fuel I know of that hasn't shot up significantly.

     

  5. 4Lorn1 | Jan 08, 2006 09:56am | #21

    I have head a few complaints about pellet stoves.

    One said it took too long to train the rabbits to use the hopper and, after all that effort, didn't burn well or put out much heat.

    Edited for clarity.



    Edited 1/8/2006 1:58 am ET by 4Lorn1

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