Of the many things that have left my mind in the past many years.
Can’t recall how the numbers and letters on pencil leads mean anything.
Someone fill me in please?
Eric
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Replies
First rule is, "pencil fall down if you don't wear a belt."
-- Little Richard --
Aitchkay
A belt! Is that all it takes? I thought that when you were old "pencil fall down no matter what". Glad you publicized the cure! AitchKay... is that anything like Hoeckler and Kock?
Well, that's what Little Richard says, at least.I'm definitely monitoring the situation closely, but for other reasons: Some time ago, I decided that when the distance from my beltline to my armpits is less than 12", I will give myself permission to put an 8' cap on my 6'-6" truck bed.I'll be able to carry 4x8 sheet stock, completely out of the weather, while still being able to parallel-park in front of all but the UPS trucks. And at that point, I won't give a rip what I look like.As for my monogram, no, it stands for Laverne and Shirley, just spelled different.Aitchkay
Laverne and Shirley? I thought maybe it was short for HK...:)
That was good.
you suffer from the common affliction of Noassatall....
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"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
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If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
I don't have it yet, but I know some who do.
number 2 pencil is most common
Then why isn't it #1?
Found this on Google:
View Image
Everyone knows about the good old number 2 pencil. But who knows what that number 2 actually means? Have no fear, I've taken the time to research this pointless topic for your pleasure. First, a little history.
Today pencils are numbered and/or lettered to tell us how hard the lead is. The higher the number, the harder the lead, and the lighter the markings. However, it wasn't always this way.
The earliest pencils were made simply from filling a wood shaft with raw graphite. The hardness of the graphite would differ depending on the quality of the graphite, thus it was different depending on where the pencil was made.
The current style of making pencils was developed in 1794 by Nicolas-Jacques Conté (1755-1805). Conté, a painter, chemist, physicist, balloonist, and inventor, put into practice a new method of making pencils so that they would be much more functional.
The Conté Process, as it became known, mixes powdered graphite with finely ground clay. This mixture is then shaped into a long cylinder and then baked in an oven. The more clay that is added versus graphite the harder the pencil lead. In January 1795, Conté patented his method as patent number 32. (Pretty high up there!)
Conté's first pencils were numbered for varing degrees of hardness. As the Conté process made its way into the world, other pencil makers decided to use the same technique. Of course, like any product, each company came up with their own standards for how their product should be labeled.
To further complicate things, English pencil decided to use letters instead of numbers. Soft leads were labeled 'B' for black, and harder leads with 'H' for hard. For varying grades they would just add more letters, thus very soft was 'BB', very hard was 'HH', and extra hard was 'HHH'. Simple right?
Later they switched again to a combination of numbers and letters! Where you would see 2B, 9H, etc. Although more complicated, this system allowed for a much wider variety of grades to be made with no more than a two character description. This was the last major change in the English grading system, the same they use today.
The full English scale is:
View Image
Why an F and an HB? Who knows. They're crazy!
Many of the United States companies use a number only system for writing pencils (1, 2, 2½, 3, 4), but the number letter combination for graphic and artist pencils. I guess they couldn't make up their mind.
The No. 2 / HB grade pencil is the middle grade and is the most commonly used pencil for generic use. Harder grades are used for drafting and engineering, while softer grades are used usually by artists.
If you ever need to convert from American to English pencils use the table below, listed as an approximate.
Have no idea of the author.
yup. you can get 9B's with no wood for artistic shading (almost like charcoal) or 9H leads for precise mechanical drawings, or just for tearing your drafting paper while trying to get a visibile line.
k
I remember using a 6H pencil when I was in drafting class in school, it was about like trying to draw with a sixteen penny nail.
HA! Someone I went to school with always used a 6H lead which always brough grief from the prof. One day the prof hammered the lead right into his desk to show it was too hard for our drafting purposes. He switched to 2H after that.
I used to do my architectural drawings in #6 H, which I thought was like using a finish nail, then I'd go to #2 (B?) when I thought it was "roughed in". Sometimes I'd finish some things like border of drawing with softer (6B, I think). Had to worry about anything from about 2 and softer smearing though.
6 H, which I thought was like using a finish nail,
Finish nail is softer than 6H <g>
Had a job captain who held that the only use for 6H was to "break in" a new sharpener.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Thanks, I guess that covers it.
I was about to purchase some leads for my Fixpencil and couldn't decide.
Second rule is, "You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead."Greg
I always buy 2B lead for my mechanical pencils. I used to use "H" lead, but it didn't seem to fax well. The 2B lead seems to do much better.
Losing a limb doesn't make people handicapped. They have to do that themselves. [Mike Meitzel, competition dove hunter whose right arm was amputated]
I mug the kindergartners waitin for the bus, get them neat fat pensckills that write real wide an dark.
If ya pick em up by the ankles and shake em, you wind up milk money too.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
That's a rather interesting financial plan!
You too?
Now stay outa Henry Co.,... thats my turf
USA English
#1 B
#2 HB
#2½ F
#3 H
#4 2HAnd of course the hardest pencil is #9½ VWell, for about 4 hours, anyway...
Click here to get to:
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Another bit of triva to make that scale somewhat usefull.
The pencil hardness scale is used to determine dry or cured paint film hardness for most industrial application.
After a paint film is dried, cured, baked, etc. it is tested with a series of pencil (generally Eagle Turquoise) to scratch the film. The pencils are sharpened with a sharpener that leaves about 1/4" of the full lead core exposed and the lead does not taper to a point. The cylinder of lead is then flattened by rubbing it across a piece of fine grit sandpaper. Holding the pencil at a 45 degree angle it is pushed into and across the paint film. The first pencil to scratch or cut the paint film is one above the film hardness.
The method and testing procedure is listed as an ASTM.
So now you have some more usefull stuff to clutter your mind.
You were just dying to share that with someone. :)
Seven years as a lab tech. in an industrial coating lab 32 years ago and I remebered that!
You must know the Sward Hardness scale too. We used that when we graded WaterBased finishes. IIRC Glass is 10?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Water born coatings and powder coating were just being developed when I left the field. I didn't get to do much with them. I worked in the general industrial lab early on, then moved into the coil coatings lab, but my forte' was in the development of insturmental color matching. You know those little machines in the paint and big box stores that they slid you color swatch in and it spits out a formula for a near perfect color match? Those little beast were just climbing out of the primordial soup in the early seventies, and we were a part of thier DNA.
Well then , there ya go.. I can cross link most co-polymers in my sleep..mlk and ammonia....just a surfactant and an emulsifier , add some DB or EB glycols and we have joy. The alipahatic resins are proprietary to the manu, ( hood products, freehold NJ) but I got the formulas...I can cook up a great brew of Polyshield, but it's not real "green" or legal to send by air..
I coulda been a contender, but my eco self , walked away.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
I was bummed out of both school and corporate america by 76 when they sold the division I worked for. Took the package and started my remodeling business.
Never look back, don't count yer mistakes, and always learn sometin new each day.
Not a big success, but happy with my past decisions.
For woodworking projects, and for high -end trim jobs, I like to use a slightly hard pencil -- it stays sharp longer, allowing a thinner line. Recently, the pencils that I bought at an art store (which were marked 2H) have get a bit short, so I've been buying some pencils.Started with a pair that were marked 3HB. They were very soft, almost like muddy clay.Then got a few that were marked 2H (Ticonderoga). Also very soft, thought not quite as bad.I'll probably go back to the art store, and I'll probably buy a range of 'numbers' so that I won't need to go back.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
I got a beef with the ERASERS, not the penskills..I do the crossword puzzles and SOB, the erasers suck ( not that I HAVE to use them that much LOL) but really, they seem to dry out or sumptim. And newsprint is shabby enough , rub it with a bad eraser and it's like a booger.
yeah, I know, use a pen, like Confuscious does. * milk bones to who can name that song, and artist*
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Edited 12/11/2008 9:11 am ET by Sphere
Now we're getting somewhere.
Amen to the erasers.
They suck.
I have to look hard and long, but sometimes I can come across a 0.5mm mechanical pencil that I can easily fit a pink pencil end eraser on it without screwing up the lead advancement mechanism.
It's gotta be the soft pink ones. And those are getting rare!
sometimes I can come across a 0.5mm mechanical pencil
Do you need to use a metric tape measure with a metric pencil?
Only when drawing metric lines. The circles get a #2.
I don't discriminate.
Edited 12/11/2008 10:28 am by peteshlagor
just saw this thread, and wanted to reply before i see if anyone else does (love them milkbones).
"they say confucious does his crossword with a pen." from a tori amos song. can't remember the title, but i listened to that great cd a lot.
and here's my favourite crossword joke.
an older vicar and a younger vicar are doing the morning crossword.
the younger vicar says- the crossword is rather...naughty...today.
the older says- how so?
well, #7 across, a four letter for a woman, ends in unt.
what's so naughty about aunt.
ohh... pass the eraser.
You get the milkbones, it was her.
Woulda been from the "Little Earthquakes" CDSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Now you have the info, good luck finding a good pencil!
I mostly use the caran d'ache Fiixpencil, 3mm lead for work.
I need lead and I'm ordering a few more pencil bodies as well to go in my BT Christmas to to who ever is picked for me.
http://www.montgomerypens.com/search_results.asp?collection=Caran%20dAche%20Mechanical%20Pencils
Eric,
You didn't say what you were using your pencil for, but you may find this information interesting and useful:
In Robert W. Lang's book "Drafting and Design for Woodworkers" he has this to say regarding pencils:
"The standard No. 2 pencil has too soft a lead to be used for drafting. Pencil lines need to be clean and crisp, and in the process of creating a drawing line there are times when you need a narrow, barely visible line and times when youy need a wider line......4H is the hardest you will need and is used for preliminary layout work and for very thin lines on the final drawing. HB is about the same as No. 2 lead and is used for lettering and for very thick lines. 2H is in between and is used most often. With proper hand pressure, a 2H lead can develop both thick and thin lines....mechanical pencils with a .5mm diameter lead don't need to be sharpened....it makes sense to have three, one equipped with the each of the three hardnesses mentioned."
actually, that's true. and you can get good at rolling it around in your hand to lay a fatter line or a thinner line. also, if you rotate it as you draw it towards you, it'll always be sharp.
still, 4h is pretty hard.
2B or not 2B, that is the question.
k
Heard a lot about drafting what's good for marking trim? Dark & holds point?
Thats kinda where I was going with this.
I use the pencil for marking, not drafting. I'm not sue what is in there but it does dull quickly..
Ok, just pulled the lead in the spare. 3B which is probably just where I need to be hardness wise.
Now that I think about it, I think it was 2H that I used the most. I also found that 6H was hard to erase and would have almost been better off to do prliminary work in a softer lead.
I keep at least one .7mm Pentel Quicker Clicker in my belt at all times. The last thing you want is to be up a ladder holding a piece of crown ready to mark, and your pencil lead breaks.With the QCs button on the side, it's easy to advance the lead one-handed, so you don't have to climb down. I also use the tougher .9mm size sometimes.I've got a sweet old L.S. Starrett pencil-compass, and I use an old Lady Cross (i.e. no pocket clip) mechanical pencil in that. Very, very nice setup! But now that everyone has switched to metric, it's hard to find leads to fit those old twist-advance models. The Current Cross takes .5mm. That's too fragile for ANY carpentry, IMO. And laying out holes on CDX has to be the very worst operation when it comes to breaking pencil leads.So wood pencils in your scribers is unthinkable to me.But who sells leads for those older models? Our very last true office-supply store in town folded a few years back.AitchKay
Just to clarify things a bit.............this thing has a 3mm lead. Never broken it. Got turned on to them by someone here.
And no, you don't loose them. One lead lasts longer than a handful of pencils.
Caran d'Ache Fixpencil Metal with Sharpener - 3mmStyle: Mechanical Pencils
Caran d'ache metal fixpencil with sharpener - 3mm car...
Click for Details>>
List Price:
$22.00OUR PRICE: $17.60Gotcha. You’re talking about what we used to call a lead holder. As opposed to what most people know as a mechanical pencil, the kind that doesn’t need sharpening -- all you do is advance the lead, and you’re ready to write. With a lead holder, though, you have to sharpen the lead, defeating the purpose of a mechanical pencil.I have owned a lead holder or two (I thought they were just leftovers from the 60s). And about 30 years ago, I worked with a woman who insisted on using a lead holder. None of the rest of us on the crew were impressed with its utility.The only pencils I use that need to be sharpened are rectangular carpenters’ pencils. When properly sharpened, they make a beautiful line, as fine as any mechanical pencil, but much more durable.Here’s how you sharpen a pencil -- Yes, you read that right, I’m giving instructions as to the proper way to sharpen a pencil. Who’d of thought!First, think of a dagger or spear point: four bevels. Two pairs of identical bevels, one pair the mirror of the other. Try to hit it first time with a fresh utility knife blade. Four cuts. Now fine-tune a bit until the lead is pretty symmetrical.Now here’s where you get a good edge: turn your knife blade perpendicular to the lead, and scrape the point into a perfect V on both sides of the pencil. More V-shaped for fine work, more parabola-shaped for rougher work. You can make a tough point that lays down a consistent .3-.5mm line without breaking if you’ve done this right.And throw away those stupid twist-sharpeners for carpenters’ pencils! Carpenters’ pencils are beautifully designed. Take advantage of that good design, instead of ruining it with an amateurs toy.And Eric, forgive me, this rant is not aimed at you! Just a couple of bees that have been in my bonnet for years!So Eric, I’m all ears. I know lots of folks -- especially those who started out in old-school drafting rooms -- swear by lead holders. So let’s hear you testify! I want to be a convert by 11:00 PM!AitchKay
AitchKay, you're nuts!Do you realize this thread has 45 posts on Pencil Leads?PENCIL LEADS!!!GET A LIFE!!!I hereby sentence you to wearing a pocket saver until Jan 1, 2009.The gavel has dropped!HK
But wait a minute! There's more! What about the sharpening details for my special, flush-scribing pencil?Once you try it, you'll always keep one in your belt!But after that mean-spirited attack by HK, I'm taking my ball, and going home.... Unless you REALLY want to know...Aitchkay
You must have got a hold of some of what Sphere is smoking.
Yes, a lead holder, and the caran d'ache is a hold over from another time........perhaps reinvented.
I abhor flat pencils except for framing, and it is usually this old timer giving the kids sharpening lessons.
Flips their wigs when they see me pull out a pocket knike sharp enough to put a point on a pencil!
Lately when at work, I have been travekling with a Staedtler little aluminum block pencil sharpener thingy.
Works great for the round pencils, most of which ain't worth a damn anymore.
I keep one of those Staedtler alum. sharpenators in my finish apron, along with a big ol' pink pearl eraser. And if I'm using a traditional roundish pencil I try to used a nice soft one- no need to permanently emboss a piece of stain grade or some such.
But, truth be told, for finish work, especially light toned stain grade, I gave up regular pencils for Dixon film markers (same diameter in size). These are NOT china markers. They will mark on even slick surfaces easily (they're made to mark on plastic film). Kinda like a mini-crayon only harder. Wipe mark off with yer finger or a little spit. I tell ya they're the shizzle-dog!View Image
What is plastic film, and why would you mark on it?
Inquiring minds want to know.
"What is plastic film, and why would you mark on it?"Photo films, printing films, x-rays, etc.. To make notes, mark points of reference, make crop marks, etc..
"...round pencils, most of which ain't worth a damn anymore."You got that right. So forget about 'em. That Caran D'Ache .7mm hex pencil looks like it would work. Bombproof. That would be nice. Eraser's too small, though, a common problem.But give a carpenter's pencil another try some time. You'll be surprised how well it works if you sharpen it well. Fine-tuning by scraping is best -- you can see what you're doing. But if you are a draftsman, sandpaper works, too. Buy the soft, not the medium lead -- you don't want grooves in your work.Aitchkay
How shall I draw thee 2B or not 2B
You can make it fool proof but not idiot proof
There is a pencil museum is Keswick, in the English Lake District. Google 'cumberland pencil museum' .
That must be a well visited site!
Hey, Eric,I'm thinking we need to do a road trip!I'll wear a pocket saver, and a bow tie, and....Hmmm... I'm looking at my selection of cardigans right now.Aitchkay
Hey, DW got me an argyle (sp) sweater for Christmas!
We'd make quite a couple to go visit the pencil museum.............
Sounds like a date, Eric!Aitchkay
so well visited we never heard of it during our vacay there.
It rains a lot in that area, there is a lot of demand for short-stay indoor tourist attractions!