Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 17, 1999 05:56pm | #1

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   Peter,

   Make absolutely certain that the underlayment is solid and does not flex. If there is flexing or give to your kitchen floor the thin T & G of wilsonart or pergo type flooring will fail. If it fails in the middle of your floor, you will have to remove the whole thing.

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 18, 1999 04:18am | #2

   *Just this week I watched a guy install Pergo o/slab on grade. He seemed a little nuts, but...hey, that's not what I wanted to say. Now, what was it? Oh yeah, seems Pergo has a 1/4" closed cell foam underlay bonded to a poly sheet. It goes down poly side down. No glue, mastic, nothing. He kept a 3/8 - 1/2" gap at all walls. The only glue was for edge gluing the 3" strips.The entire floor "floats" on the slab. I asked him about the hollow sound when people walk on it. He said not a problem IF you keep the foam flat with no wrinkles. Next day, I walked on the floor and what-do-you-know, no bounce. But, at another house, the painter spilled a wee bit of oil base on the Wilsonart floor and started to wipe it up. He wiped it up alright, the "grain" pattern with the spilled paint. Called in an artist to feather in the "grain".

2. 
   stan_ | Mar 18, 1999 05:36am | #3

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   i installed pergo flooring in my bath 5 yrs ago, although pricey I believe it was worth every penny, W/ 2 dogs, a wife and a baby, it has held up GREAT. instead of buying the manufacturers foam I went to a fabric store and purchased a enough felt to cover the floor for about 4 bucks. I did a good chaulk job around the edges before I installed the base to keep the water on the surface of the floor. I love it.

3. 
   Guest_ | Mar 18, 1999 06:19am | #4

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   He's not just a customer...he bought the company!
   Thats it! I'm goin down to the depot to get a sample. Looks like plywood...wonder if it floats?
   Whadda ya think the finish will take..80 grit should put a hole in it.
   I'll get back to you.

   Mr Skeptic

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 18, 1999 06:34am | #5

   *Peter,I have never installed one, but I've thought about it quite a bit. I have noticed that the instructions that Lowe's posts next to the Armstrong laminate floor do not mention anything at all about clamps. But there is an installation kit tucked away in the corner available to rent. It is clamps.I think it was on an earlier thread here that I first heard that clamps are needed.My point being that I could have easily bought it and attempted to install it without clamps, even though I read the instructions carefully more than once.Just in case Wilsonart forgets like Armstrong.Rich Beckman

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 18, 1999 08:59am | #6

   *The clamps on Pergo are terrific. It takes a few minutes for the T&G to "grab" and without the clamps you just can't get a tight joint without wasting time. With the clamps, you just leave them in place unti you come across with the next row, then reset each to apply continuous pressure. Very easy, veeeerrrryyy boring.No one who knows anything will mistake them for wood, but for certain applications (think: moisture & abuse) I like the product. I think of it as being like vinyl but with hardness and a pleasing pattern.

4. 
   KC_Oneill | Mar 18, 1999 06:20pm | #7

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   The only one I've been installing is the Formica brand. It is tops in my book. The fit of the tongues and grooves is exceptional and the underlayment is easy to work with also. The best part is the glue. Seems like it is tightbond exterior to me, but you DO NOT clean it up as you go. You leave it squeeze out(which helps you see that you are getting good even seems) and then wait for it to dry. Then just peel it up ,no mess , no water on the floor and best of all NO SEEMS RAISED FOR 2 WEEKS like pergo and the rest. When you leave a pergo job you are always wondering if the seems will "de-swell" or not. With Formica, they don't swell to begin with. And it is guarenteed in kitchens and baths as well. KC

5. 
   Guest_ | Mar 19, 1999 05:27am | #8

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   I've worked in houses with both Pergo and Formica floors. The scratches would have bugged me to no end. Do you just desensitize because of the money you've saved or is there a way to fix them? Does wax fill them in? Actually, I think the stuff is quite comfortable to walk on. I, also, would never walk on my counter tops, without expecting to replace them.

   But, hey, a floor in a day has got a lot of merit. I'm finally getting ready to build one for myself, and I'd love to put some flooring money into windows and doors instead.

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 19, 1999 07:24am | #9

   *I think you have to work at it to scratch the stuff. I've gotten away with dropping tools on the stuff without problems, and despite the messiness nearby (plaster debris) the floor has held up fine. If you want to save money get vinyl. Or w/w.If the floor has dings, you can repair them. Or you can demo the entire finish floor in about 15 minutes and start over. Better & cheaper to take care of it in the first place, of course.

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 19, 1999 07:55am | #10

   *i like it. It holds up better than vinyl and I can teach almost any one to install it properly. I also like the the installation price. Found out today one of the home centers is charging $5.50 a foot, labor only. Must be I need to raise my prices.

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 19, 1999 08:12am | #11

   *i finally figured out why so many people post in italics. They start their sentence with "i".$5.50? get out, really? I'd heard about $3, pretty good for lego labor. My only problem with it is that it is sooooo boring.

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 20, 1999 04:28am | #12

   *Andrew,I was shocked too. They tell me ( he's reliable, does some side work for me) they can't get it done fast enough. I have no trouble selling the labor alone at 3.50 (same price as depot). Boring or not it's hard to argue with the money.

2. 
   Guest_ | Mar 20, 1999 04:50am | #13

   *I seriously doubt the homeowners were working on scratching their floors, but they were scratched, none the less. I've seen at least six house with floors like this. From 6 months to 1 1/2 years old.Do you that have these floors do anything special that you wouldn't on a wooden floor? Like no shoes, pets, children? Special floor mats? How do you fix dings?A curious onlooker, BB

3. 
   Guest_ | Mar 20, 1999 05:07am | #14

   *There ain't enough money in this world for me to ever install cheap countertop material on any floor.

4. 
   Guest_ | Mar 20, 1999 07:44am | #15

   *Actually it's much stronger than countertop material. And I've been impressed how much abuse even formica can take short of countertop homicide with a knife or hot pan. Wood, which I prefer generally, i didn't want in a kitchen that gets water, repetitive foot traffic, and moppings all the time. Sadly, many people will mistake it for real wood.Rob, I wasn't saying I wouldn't do it! But I would be bored -- putting in one of these floors makes drywalling look like brain surgery.Billy, we haven't -tried- to scratch the floor, but it has endured a lot of abuse from the nearby kitchen gutting -- including pieces of plaster, sharp tools, bits of concrete pavers tracked in from outside, even a screw that my wife slid across the floor under her foot. There are some superficial scratches, but you have to get down on the ground to see them at an angle. My Pergo experiment was the 40 sq. ft. pantry; I figured even if I ruined it I could just replace the entire floor in an afternoon (the floor extends under the base cabinetry and the perimeter caulked to watertightness ... plus the cabinetry is merely screwed to the wall). I do try to sweep, and put a doormat by the door.Haven't fixed a ding yet. In principle you use your circular saw to do a shallow plunge cut and punch out the offending plank, carefully remove bits of T&G from neighboring planks, and glue in new plank. Because all Pergo patterns are color consistent, it should match OK...In the kitchen I had no (easy) way to get the stove and refrigerator out of the way so I slid them to one side, Pergo'd half the floor, then moved them again and finished.

5. 
   Guest_ | Mar 20, 1999 05:40pm | #16

   *Andrew, one correction, repairing a pergo type floor is brain surgery. Once the floor has failed, (break in the joint) you have to remove the floor and replace. If you glued the joints properly, it's a one way trip. Pergo can't give that stuff away in Europe. I was at a proffessional trade show in Toronto, and the Pergo people were offering the stuff at $0.60 US to the Russian delegation and they walked away.

6. 
   Guest_ | Mar 20, 1999 06:09pm | #17

   *I'm confused about some of these posts,talking about caulking the perimeter. These are floating floors right, expanding and contracting. Is the caulking just sealing the raw edges or what? I haven't seen any directions to caulk at the perimeter in the directions I've seen, but maybe I just missed it. I'm thinking of putting it down in my basement; a contractor friend has it in his place, lots of kids etc., he's pretty happy.

7. 
   Guest_ | Mar 20, 1999 09:30pm | #18

   *Toronto is in Europe?OK, I'm going to give this repair thing a shot with some scrap. Wish me luck!I forgot, I did have some problems with the last install -- I kept chipping the laminate with the "tapping block." There should be a waiting period between framing and Pergo'ing.I just want to find someone who will pay me $5.50 per sf!

8. 
   Guest_ | Mar 20, 1999 09:35pm | #19

   *Pergo does recommend non-silicone caulk in wet locations because the edge is so vulnerable. they have a long version of their instructions somewhere. i caulk to the wall in the kitchen because upon the inevitable plumbing mishap if water gets back there it will cause trouble.caulk -should- expand and compress with the wood movement -- we're only talking 1/8" or so. Pergo caulk is about $8 a tube, I'll see how Dap's painter's caulk does (a baseboard will conceal the caulk).

9. 
   Guest_ | Mar 20, 1999 10:50pm | #20

   *Two separate sentences, two separate comments, although related. The Construction Showcase that is held every year in Toronto, attracts buyers from around the world. European buyers told us that they didn't buy Pergo products in Europe so why would they do so here. The Europeans have this little thing about products that end up in landfills prematurely.

10. 
    Guest_ | Mar 21, 1999 11:27pm | #21

    *Andrew, seems like a couple of extra bucks spent on caulk could be worth it in this instance.I think I could use this stuff. I'm not easily board. Easily floored,BB

6. 
   Peter_Rawlings | Mar 21, 1999 11:34pm | #22

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   I'll soon be installing Wilsonart laminate floor in kitchen.Planning on undercutting jambs and casing,same as vinyl,installing 1/4 round at base. Since I'm a virgin at this type of flooring, would appreciate any insights or techniques from the more experienced amoung you.