Replies

1. 
   Piffin | Aug 02, 2003 05:52am | #1

   Sometimes, specialty products can cost you as much at end of line as you would pay for installed.

   Do you have the specialized skills for this installation?

   Have you considered what would hold up the unit if you sit the AL poles on the ground and then pour concrete?

   Do you know whether the crete will corrode the AL if done this way?

   BTW, I'm surre of the product you mention, but four grand for a pergola sounds cheap to me.

   .

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   4cjsgarden | Aug 02, 2003 06:46am | #2

   We would put in metal posts first then the aluminium cover would go over the top of that.  I don't know if aluminum does corrode!.  The reason I think $4,000 is alot at this time is because I have other priorities.  We need to concrete the patio, put a small deck on for coming out of the kitchen area, put a sprinkler system in the front and back yard (3/4 acre), also grass it. plus put trees in the back as we are in full sun.  If we found out the price of the material, and thought we could get it cheaper we would do it.

1. 
   Piffin | Aug 02, 2003 04:10pm | #5

   I'm still trying to figure out why everyone thinks that it's a good idea to place the posts first and then pour around them. They will either sink into the ground or heave up out of it..

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Aug 02, 2003 05:28pm | #6

   y aluminum ?

   here's 4x4 PT, with fiberglass columns & PT pergoal capMike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   deadmanmike | Aug 02, 2003 05:56pm | #7

   Nice work mike! I really like the screens.

   Mike

2. 
   Piffin | Aug 02, 2003 06:07pm | #8

   Mike, could you speak about the windlass? I understand but this is a DIY thread here....

   Excellence is its own reward!

3. 
   xMikeSmith | Aug 02, 2003 06:27pm | #9

   well, when (2) 2x12 PT  caps decide they want to do one thing, and i want them to do another, we eventually resort to force..

    Roy said i'd never get them into alignment, but i thot otherwise and ran a tight loop over a block on top and the main beam framing the deck on the bottom..

    a couple twists with a stick in the loop persuaded the cap that it would like to sit on top of the last column..

   anyways .. i don't know if this is the proper terminology ( windlass ), but it is something i've used in the past in planking boats and other persuasive occasionsMike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

   
4. 
   BillHartmann | Aug 02, 2003 08:10pm | #12

   That is not a what is classically through of as a windlass. The more common windlass is a powered captsun that you can put the rope around one turn and by maintaining tension on the rope the captsun pulls the load. If you release the tension on the loose end (I think that it is called the Dummy end) then it stop pulling.

   But I found a reference to a Spanish windlass which is similar to what you are doing.

   http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/skills/b-p/windlass.htm

5. 
   Piffin | Aug 02, 2003 08:20pm | #13

   The thing I found interesting is that since this is essentially a freestanding wall, it becomes a tensioned system when the top is yanked down like that while the fasteners are hooked up. To some degree anyway, that stabilizes things..

   Excellence is its own reward!

6. 
   xMikeSmith | Aug 02, 2003 08:46pm | #15

   piff.. another interesting point is when the tension on the "windlass" was released.. what happened ?

   did the 2x12's revert to their original shape and pull the 4x4 post out of the ground ?

   i'll never know.. at that one point in time i did have all 4 posts in alignment and got them all double bolted... but your  tensioning point does raise some possiblities for the future..Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

7. 
   xMikeSmith | Aug 02, 2003 08:42pm | #14

   bill... a further search reveals that your capstan ( capstern) is different from a windlass...

   and of course they all operate on the same principle...

   just like winding up a rubber band for a model airplane

   here's another definition of "windlass"

   http://www.jcu.edu.au/aff/history/southseas/refs/falc/1514.htmlMike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

8. 
   4cjsgarden | Aug 05, 2003 08:34pm | #17

   Thanks for showing your photo's other people's ideas help mine, I am not necessary set to one idea.  I think yours looked great.

2. 
   jagwah | Aug 02, 2003 06:37pm | #10

   The reason I think $4,000 is alot at this time is because I have other priorities. 

   Boy I sure don't want to start a downward spiral here but here goes.

   This line has been said to me so many times in my contracting career that. Sometimes I have to go lie down awhile so my blood pressure can subside.

   Anyway, let me say this about that- We all know our customers have limited budgets. Sometimes we go to their banker with them to explain the cost so they can secure a loan. Some of us are bankers as well helping loan the money,(most scary to me).

   But the bottom line is none of us owe the client everything on their wish list within their within their small,"This is all we can afford budgets".

   You don't go to a Cadillac dealership with a full line of accessories and then present your Pinto budget. The dealer might explain if your close how you can get the cad. but have to lose som excessories like wheels headlights and motor.

   Wanting to see if you can get the pergola pieces at wholesale is great. Wanting to put it up yourself is fine. Do you have the ability, I know you do because you sound like a person who will research this matter well before starting. That's why you made this post.

   But for some of us contractors, please refraise that sentence next time:

   The reason I think $4,000 is alot at this time is because I have other priorities.

   I know $4000.00 is the going cost. But with all I want to get done within the budget I have I've got to find a way to reduce this amount. Any ideas?

   You have to be sensitive to us, we bruise easily. Ha Ha

1. 
   4cjsgarden | Aug 05, 2003 08:30pm | #16

   oops, point taken...I'm not the one with the right words sometimes, need a little improvement.  I'll come to you Bob, when I want to phrase something better Ha!, sure don't want to offend anyone, appreciate you all taking your time to reply!

3. 
   Piffin | Aug 02, 2003 07:49pm | #11

   Bob makes a great point.

   To have your cake and eat it too;

   use a garden hose and sprinkler instead of installing an automatic underground system

   mix an pour the patio concrete by hand, yourself, or have a patio-pouring party

   grow your own trees for shade. There are fast growing ones bred. A tree big enough for shade will set you back a good part of that four grand.

   Like you said, it's all about priorities. What is most important? You used the word "cheaper". Is that your highest priority? If so, you might have found the wrong forum.

   We be glad to help with "Fine", but cheap doesn't get much good reaction from professionals.

   .

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   4cjsgarden | Aug 05, 2003 08:43pm | #18

   Hate to say it, but would like to have my cake and eat it Ha! (just being honest!)...But piffin, I didn't say cheaper, read my first thread!, (even though I may have thought it!).  I can't use just a hose to water the area, it is too large.  I am doing the flower beds at the minute and it takes me 1 1/2 hours to do that!  As for pouring concrete, we have too much to do and know no one in this trade, I'm sure it would look a fine mess when we have finished! Ha.  I have thought of the trees, and they are still an option!

4. 
   4cjsgarden | Aug 06, 2003 03:52am | #22

   oops, noticed in another thread i did say cheaper...I stand corrected!

2. 
   FastEddie1 | Aug 02, 2003 07:50am | #3

   20 years ago I installed a metal carport cover for the same reason...too much cost.  And besides, it looks simple...bet I can do that!  I got a quote from a supplier-installer, and thn asked how much it would cost for him to sell me the parts.  So basically I saved the labor portion of the quote.

   Do it right, or do it twice.

1. 
   4cjsgarden | Aug 05, 2003 08:47pm | #19

   That's an idea, I never thought of that!

3. 
   TomT226 | Aug 02, 2003 03:57pm | #4

   Why aluminum? Look at 3-4" square tube. Since this is not a load bearing structure, span with 6-8" purlins bolted to the posts, then use 4" purlins tacked on to that. All of this can be cut with a circular saw with an abrasive blade. Put a coat of red oxide on it, then paint it the color you want.

   This stuff comes in 20' lengths. Put in your posts, pour your slab around that, then cut your posts off to the length you want.

   Check with a local welder. He can help you with the fab and the welding/cutting if you don't want to do it yourself.

1. 
   4cjsgarden | Aug 05, 2003 08:52pm | #20

   I have thought of that too, putting in 3-4" square tubes (or posts).  The reason I posted on here was to get people's ideas, and you all are giving me some.  The reason I when asked why "put them into the ground then pour concrete", is because some contractors have told me that is the best thing to do - even the builder of our home! - but I do get your point piffin, what is the best way to do it?

1. 
   TomT226 | Aug 05, 2003 09:08pm | #21

   There are pluses and minuses in doing it this way. It's a pain to float the concrete around posts in a slab. The posts have to be either within the pour or on the back edge so the concrete doesn't fracture with movement.

   You can use the posts as part of your form. Tack your wire or steel to the posts so they will be an intergral part of the slab. A column bolted to a slab is only as strong as the bolts holding it.

   Since this is only a pergola, it will have limited lift and rack in high winds, but you won't have any walls either to help stabilize it.

   I've built 3 structures this way, and helped on others, so it's not unusual.