I ran into a friend yesterday who is a plumber. We were shootin’ the breeze and I asked him if he’s using a lot of pex tubing. He said he’s using more and more of it but is a bit concerned because two weeks ago he was called to a house to look at a leak.
You guessed it. He said the Pex had been chewed in two places by a mouse or rat or something (he replaced that section with copper). Has anyone here heard of anything like this before?
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Replies
Guess we need to remind folks to wash their hands after peanut butter and jelly sandwiches before running pex (;-).
Does sound like a real threat though.
I had always thought this would be a future problem with pex, but since it's code I let it go. This is the first time I've heard the concern/problem from any one other than my mind. Seems to me a stuborn rodent (they're all stuborn) would chew through copper as well if it really wanted a drink. I'm interested if any one else has had this experience.
Perhaps the people had tried to poison the rodents. Some poisons cause increased thirst, so the rodent goes looking for water....instant karma.
That's why I installed a mini water fountain right under my PEX manifold...
If that is what happened then there must have been a leak for them to know that there was water in the PEX..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Or, the pex just taste's yummy!
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I don't know why that would be true. They're pretty wily and they can hear it flow. I haven't heard these stories about PEX actually, but i have about CPVC and i've seen chewed pipe. Kinda like soft candy/hard candy to a rodent's teeth, i would imagine: certainly it's capable of chewing through.I posted a thread a while ago about people's experiences with PE pipe compared to PVC for underground, in regard to rodent chewing. The friend i was posting for told me in her area that the gophers will chew right through PE even 4' down, but not PVC. She buried a wire a foot down and got the plastic insulation covering on it chewed to pieces, but not after she dug it up and encased it in PVC. IOW, they seem to like soft pipe for its own sake, but not hard pipe. Still, i've actually seen chewed CPVC supply lines, so if it's not the plastic itself they want, i'm thinking it was the water inside they were after.
I just got tuned to this thread and the concern. I have not seen pex chewed by rodents yet, but plenty of wiring has been in same houses.I know that the wire coating contains lead ( that's right - don't be chewing it) and that lead tastes sweet. That could explain why they like wire.Chemicly the PEX is a whole lot closer to the PVC
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I read a report about a guy who got sick, got put in the hospital, got well, went back to work, got sick. This cycle kept repeating, but no one could think what he could be coming in contact with as an electrician that could cause this, so one day the medical person watched him work. He noted the guy would strip a length of wire, then stick a bit of the covering in his mouth to chew, like gum. Bingo! Lead poisoning from the coating...
"If that is what happened then there must have been a leak for them to know that there was water in the PEX."That's what came to my mind. It would be a feat to "smell" water through plastic I'd think.
>>That's what came to my mind. It would be a feat to "smell" water through plastic I'd think.Some rats carry dowsing rods....
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- Psalms 109:30-31
Maybe the rats were using little, teeny dowsing rods! ;-)
Ed: I see someone else beat me to my clever answer!
Edited 4/26/2007 8:08 pm ET by Danno
I think possibly they are using more advanced technology, afterall rats are the smarter among rodents. Probably sent out some research rats to do a study (with grants of course), then they wrote up a paper, distributed it, then the field rats discovered its truth in practice and some enterprising sewer rat charged for access to the pipes. Mind you, they accomplish all this in a matter of hours, whereas it takes us about fifteen years or more. Like I said, they are the more advanced among rodents.
Yeah, they probably experimented on "lab people" too! Ever read or see "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"? (Earth and its culture turn out to be an experiment by mice to learn the secret of the universe--or something like that.)
Rats are recreational chewers.
Just as some dogs are recreational barkers.
Offer a rat some alternate behavior when he's bored and he'll leave the pipes alone.
Now there's a market--things to give to rats when they're bored--little lever press Game Boys, little DVD players, little big screen TV's (or just give them your old 13"--to a rat that'd be like a movie theater!.... Of course, you'd have to find a way for the rats to purchase these items. Can you tell I'm bored today? Guess I should go watch TV.
Edited 4/27/2007 10:22 am ET by Danno
Is ther a rat porn channel?
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Hmm...rat porn channel, I guess I'll have to look--but I don't have cable, so I doubt it. (Maybe it's "blocked" so only rats can tune it in!)
My cat is a recreational chewer and has a love of wires; speaker wires, mouse cords, headphone wires, cellphone chargers. In short, those small things that make life a little more livable or easier, he attacks with a vengeance.
Three beaver homes within a mile of me. One at the end of my driveway. They take down a tree every now and then.
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Here in the city the only thing taking down trees are the city and stupid landlords wanting to expand their rentable space by adding parking spaces. Of course that means removing every living thing grading and covering it with asphalt.
You got me to wondering whether rats are socialists or capitalists. Since they can get the accomplishment thru committee and onto success that fast, they must be capitalists.
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I dunno Piffin, since I haven't seen any rat breadlines, I'd say they are probably social-democrats.
>>>>>>there must have been a leak for them to know that there was water in the PEX.I've not handled any PEX, but is it possible there would be some condensation on the exterior of it?http://grantlogan.net/
Dat's true.But I think that SP thoughs on going through a tight hole maybe more common..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Some poisons cause increased thirst
Ah, but don't foprget, Rodentia must gnaw all the time, or their teeth will grow too long to use. So, the varmits will gnaw on what feels best in the best protected spot they can find (often just like one's canine with your favorite shoe--singular shot, too <g>).
I've seen gnaw marks on MC & BX, and wondered how long that gene sequence would take to get "opted out" . . . <g>Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
If the critters lived long enough to reproduce first, it sounds like a behavior that's here to stay!I find antlers all the time in the woods gnawed to nubbins by rodents. There must be something in them they need in their diet. Anyway, as hard as antler is, PEX would be like an after-dinner mint.
If the critters lived long enough to reproduce first, it sounds like a behavior that's here to stay!
Ah, quite, my never-ending worry about invariantly inattentive drivers on the road ...
I find antlers all the time in the woods gnawed to nubbins by rodents. There must be something in them they need in their diet. Anyway, as hard as antler is, PEX would be like an after-dinner mint.
Yeah, I've heard that antlers are near-perfect chew toys, and there's calcium & such in the keratin in the antler, too. I know from opening enough undisturbed walls, that all the rodentia will gnaw on just about anything, as long as it's handy, hard to soft or vice versa.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
"my never-ending worry about invariantly inattentive drivers on the road ..."The only humane thing to do is run 'em off the road before they start having families. Just do it, Capn...In the bit of googling i've done on this today, it appears almost all the stories have to do with PEX (or dishwasher drain) where it goes through an opening. It seems an almost-big-enough hole invites them to go through, but they chew some extra room if they need it...in the plastic instead of the wood, naturally!So...among homes that wish to support both plumbing and a rodent population, extra-large holes to handle rodent traffic is de rigueur.
Chipmonks chewed the bejeezus out of my phone line before i got strung and several times Ive found where there was a stump and chewed nut on the phone line was eaten too. Since im responsible for the last 1/2 mile of phone line u can see how much fun this can be (partic. when it rains and internet speed skids to 9k.
I dont think mice "sensed " water in the pex.. they were just exercising thier jaws.
but your phone line is not in PEX. There has to be something that makes them focus their chewing on a thing they choose. Beavers are Rodents too. Whay don't they take the studs out of houses?
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Beavers are Rodents too. Whay don't they take the studs out of houses?
Where the heck are you located?! You guys have beavers living in your house thereabouts?!jt8
"The lowest ebb is the turn of the tide."-- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
The only humane thing to do is run 'em off the road before they start having families. Just do it, Capn...
Oh, it's sore, sore tempting, except usually, they are swerving at me, and there's not enough reaction time left after saving my own neck to exercise any fertility options for the truly deserving on the roads . . .
So...among homes that wish to support both plumbing and a rodent population, extra-large holes to handle rodent traffic is de rigueur.
Yeah, but if a person puts cayenne powder in the Durham's pookie, it seems to help encourage rodent domiciling on some other stud bay (just don't scratch y'r eye <g>)Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
We need coextruded PEX with cayenne in the outer layer only to discourage rodents. Or type L copper will work, too.Bill
need coextruded PEX with cayenne in the outer layer only to discourage rodents.
And the cajuns'd turn that inside out, like as not <G> . . .
Pest dude I know says cayenne and peppermint would be ideal anti-gnaw, as that would turn away about 90% of the rodents
Or type L copper will work, too.
Sure it would, I just don't want to see how big a Helper it takes to pull it through the "home runs" like pex <G>Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
What brand is that and is it any harder to pull?
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No brand, pure speculation. Hard to pull if you have cuts on your hands :-)Bill
Got stuck behind an inattentive drive this morning on the way to work. when I finally passed her, she had a cig in one hand and a cellphone in the other.
jt8
"The lowest ebb is the turn of the tide."-- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
I know her. She was behind me, flicking ashes out the window, too. And driving with--her third hand? I pulled off the road and watched her weave on and run up someone else's rearend. In a real hurry to get where she was going.The way that relates to the OP here is I'm thinking run some Pex up her tailpipe and show the rodents the other end of it. Can't they chew through metal too??
an inattentive drive this morning on the way to work
Trade'ya; Was honked at for being stopped behind a stopped vehicle (was waved at to "go! go!") by someone on cell, smoking, and eating breakfast . . .
O, the folk who ought to be sent to dirty jobs . . . <g>
Off to lunch, and to dare death once again upon the road.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
But what if you took a section of PEX and ran it from their tailpipe, through the trunk and out under their seat. Most of 'em have the windows rolled up.
jt8
"The lowest ebb is the turn of the tide."-- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
It's calcium.
Seems like a lot of extra effort there, with the rodents eating the calcium so their teeth will be grow strong so they can wear them off chewing antlers so that...
I've heard many times mice & rodents like pex, and also elec. wire or at least the cable sheathing.
I did'nt read all the replys- anyone think it might be the water they are after ?
All life forms need water to survive.
If i'm going to be your secretary, you're going to have to give me more incentive.
"I've heard many times mice & rodents like pex, and also elec. wire or at least the cable sheathing."You've heard...
But do you know?
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Critters gnaw on antlers to get the calcium, IIRC. Porcupines are noted for also chewing on axe handles and outdoor privy seats--because they like the salt left from sweat!
Ah ha! That explains what happened to the cork grip on my fly fishing rod!Todd
I'm sorry, but my karma ran over your dogma!
Too bad, i would have loaned you my dogma to get rid of your rodentia.
thats ok, i'm pretty sure i can get the karma to run that over too.
I shall look for your residence on the cover of Good Housekeeping.
i have heard that they are replacing lab rats in experiments with lawyers.
there are more lawyers than there are rats so they are easier to find, the lab techs don't form the attachments to the lawyers like they do the rats, and there are some things the rats just won't do.
But how do they convince them to breed with each other?
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you are speaking about the lawyers? they will breed with (screw) anything or anybody!
Was it the cherry flavored pex? How could they resist....
Had rat/mouse eat through the dishwasher drain line. Made a hellofa mess when running the dw.
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u shure it was the PEX leakin and not the rats :) lol
I did copper for myself. i read where if there was a hole to put steel wool or something as the rats wont chew that, i know that wont help all the pipe but maybe where it went through wood???
Steel wool can eat it's own way through copper.
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My dog watched me put up a roof today, laying there gnawing happily on a scrap of 1" PVC. I can see how rodents would just love to do the same with a cool (or warm) PEX "worm" that has the added bonus of a juicy surprise in the middle. It sure looks pretty though before the walls go up -- all those bright colors and curves.
Rats chewed through an ABS waste line under the sink in an apartment I maintain. Replaced with PVC and the bstds chewed through that too.
I pity the rat or mouse that ever gets in this house.
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That's a queen sized bed by the way.
We are planning on installing PEX in this house, and although I've had some concerns about just this issue, I've never found anything that looks like it's been chewed. Of course, the people in this house have always had cats, and there's also a small feral population. Perhaps that's why.I doubt a ground dwelling rodent would last long.
Now if only they'd take care of the darn squirrels.
I had a mouse population i removed with a Tin Cat, which worked more effectively than the six felines who live here. Now the only time i have a problem is when one of the cats gets a mouse and hauls it IN to show off!
Our cats love to do squirrels.
Just yesterday, the dog came in with one between her teeth, proud as can be!
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At least one of the other posts are correct, rats and mice will chew on anything to keep their teeth down; they never stop growing. They can smell or sense water from a long distance. If someone has a mouse or rat prob. I would not use pex or cpvc. Luck.
For sure that happens.
I have a customer that built a house on piers. Rodents were living in the FG insulation under the house and while there chewing through the pex tubing.
He tore all the FG out to eliminate the habitat and I sprayed the underside of the entire house with Corbond.
He was sceptical at first but called half way thru winter to report he was very happy and he would be a reference at any time.
Not sure how many times he got a leak but it had to be major to undergo all that cost & effort.
Stu