Hey all…get your design caps on…
got a call from a customer a week ago about making their house have more curb appeal. They want to update the look, change a few things, etc.
here is what we have so far…they are going to change the garage door by removing the clipped corners on the header, installing a new “cottage” style door that looks like an old carriage house. they are replacing the upper round top window with a window that has a less rounded top, they are replacing the front door with a craftsman style wood door and sidelite..possibly a round top…going to change the entry to accommodate a barrel roll soffit with beadboard trim to match the door…possibly a few columns on each side of the barrel vault…putting wide trim for a rakeboard with a bedmould/crown…possibly adding cedar shakes on the gable above a new trim above the garage door
any other ideas? they have thrown so many different ideas of what they want, it was kinda hard to absorb it all. any pics of projects your have done that would enhance this baby would be great! I’m particularly interested on how to deal with the bow windows…have a few ideas, but I need more input…
so I call on all you talented Breaktimers to expand my possibilities…
thanks in advance!
knowledge without experience is just information…. Mark Twain
Replies
...pics would help!
knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
http://www.cobrajem.com
Curb appeal? Do this and you'll have a crowd.
that is soo beautiful and soo ugly at the same time...knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
http://www.cobrajem.com
First thing is that you need to get rid of all of that white stuff that is around the house. What is it?What about some landscaping. Something to the right side of the walkway to the front door. Some that is tall (2-3 ft) so that atracts your attention and draws in away from the garage and towards the front door.And you don't have the right angle to see, but it apears that the walk comes off the driveway right at the garage door.Maybe even moveing the walkway out closer to the road and you can have landscaping on each side.
here's a rough sketch I did today while waiting for Mrs Me to get home from Dr...
I'll post the pic I took it from as well...
I'll let you know how the meeting goes tomorrow...knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
http://www.cobrajem.com
With all the vinyl, ya' could maybe heat it up an' squash it into some kinda' random amorphous shape . . .
No wait, they already did that!
That's a toughie - That garage kido of dominates the front - touching up the other elements would be like putting decorative tatoos on a birthmark . . .
Forrest (does this post make me sound negative?)
I'm going to mull it over. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
thats why we're going to put in a decorative door...Kinda like this:
http://www.idcdoors.com/images/Galbraith-7-Series.jpg
the existing siding is a wood lap with 2x6 trim...knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
http://www.cobrajem.com
Seems strange that the front door would go up so high near the ceiling of the porch. Would seem to me that it would be hard for them to get their money out of such a thing.
there is actually dead space above the door now. the soffit you see pictured is just there for...decoration?knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
http://www.cobrajem.com
It's kinda bad that the soffit thing doesn't appear to line up with the rough opening of the door...Can't seem to move the door much to center it.
Thats the problem with setting these doors so far back. Kinda makes a cave to the front door.
Could you do something to remove the roof over the front door and change the garage roof pitch to add a porch... Don't know if that would help??
A couple little things- Those outdoor lights look completely builder grade- how about something more craftsman. http://www.rejuvenation.com<a href=""> has nice but pricey stuff, and Kichler has some nice lights too. Second thing I notice is all that concrete walkway- is there room to put flagstone or something over it?
That entryway is in a featureless cave, it needs some detail in there and some more natural light. I'm just not sure how.
zak
Round top and craftsman style dont do well together.
before we get carried away what does the rest of the neighborhood look like?
craftsman was a poor choice of words for me to use...basically the entry door will mimic the garage door in style...cottage is more like it.
as for the neighborhood...think mid 80's middle/uppermiddle class. the same basic style as what you see pictured. this was a model home in it's day. almost all of the houses have cedar lap siding with 7"-9" reveal and trim packages to match this one
...and lots of brown!knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
http://www.cobrajem.com
Just off the cuff ideas: Accentuate the entry and center the dormer above it. A porch with decoarative columns (someone else mentioned this), a floor to ceiling bay window instead of what they have (and no shutters), a nice walk leading up to the front door, some nice plantings. As someone else mentioned, the garage really dominated the front facade--maybe put the door on the side?
what? you no likey shutters????
that was the FIRST thing she said to me..."whatever you do, get rid of those gawdawful shuters!"
cant move the garage door as there are neighbors on each side...they are keeping the bay window (for now) with the idea of replacing later.
Budget is kinda tight...so I'm looking more cosmetic...in some ways it's going to be like putting a prom dress on sow...
...i'm just going to have to make it a perty prom dress!knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
http://www.cobrajem.com
Like someone said before, I think you need to figure out how to make the front entry area more of the focal point and not so over dominated by the garage. This can be done not only with architectural elements but colors. Bright colors such as white, tend to draw the eye more than darker colors. Perhaps, somehow break up the relatevily large expanse of siding above the garage door... OTOH, as large as the garage is in porportion to the fasade of the house proper, it's gonna be tough. I like your garage door idea, but again, you don't want that to be the main item of interest.
I'm OK with the door being at the back of the porch, but, personally, I don't care for the single sidelight at all.
Ah, budget constraints! (Unlike the house I'm working in now--they are putting in all new stainless steel appliances, granite counter tops, cherry cabinets!)
Ok, cosmetic stuff: Take off the shutters, some different siding, especially the non-garage part--maybe cedar shingles or something that looks like them--maybe even more decorative and busy (egg and dart, for instance) and leave the existing siding on the garage. I agree with whoever said the large expanse of nothing over the garage door is bad. At risk of drawing attention away from the entrance area, I would consider at least putting in one of those big octagonal louvered vents there. Maybe add a lamp post by the front door with a nice theme lamp--Craftsman or whatever you choose for the rest of the facade.
I would also plant a dwarf purple leaved tree (like "prunus cistena") in front between the entrance and the bay window (but out in the yard a ways!) near or instead of the lamp on a post (or even a floodlight on ground directed up to light the tree at night). Make the front door a contrasting (to the siding) color. Trim the bay window in the same contrasting color. Maybe even better would be the new siding material a different color from the garage, say Federal Blue or sage green, and the door and window trim a warm color--even maybe orange! If siding remains a cream (or is changed to natural cedar), I would consider even a purple door and window trim. Maybe a really nice Craftsman style lamp above the door (is there room?). Art glass sidelight.
If you can, play with photos and make your changes either on tracing paper overlays or do it on the computer to see what this will really look like. Good luck. Actually sounds like fun to me!
Can you move the door to the front of the cave? Add a window or something over the garage door. As they say, make the house inviting, this one does not look that way. Maybe a low picket fence directing foot traffic to the entry. I wouldn't go overboard on the redesigning or there will be a negative return at sale time.
How about this for the front door?
what a hack!! :)
you made it home well I see...thanks again for the help!
knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
http://www.cobrajem.com
Home again! Home again! Jiggidy Jig! It took 2-1/2 hours from Brooklyn Hts. (even with rush hour and a detour) so I can't complain. It was nice working for you. Thanks again, to you and yours, for a nice stay. I'll post the carriage door pics that might help with the pimping project tomorrow.
Here is a novel idea: How about you and the HO stick to your respective day jobs and hire a pro (architect or designer)?
That house needs a little more than a DIY designer...
DG/Builder
you mean like the one I'm bringing to the house on Tuesday?knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
http://www.cobrajem.com
Only if he/she is really good :)
DG/Builder
well...the guy I'm having go with me is a semi-retired architect who is now a developer...I go to church with the guy and was running things by him this morning...he offered to go out with me for my Tuesday visit to see the neighborhood and appraise the house and it's potential.
and you are right, the design aspect is not something I usually dawdle in...when they first called me out to the job, it was to take a look at replacing some trim for their new garage door...and expanded into "Home Makeover: Curb Appeal with a Limited Budget"...sans all the expert help!
thanks for your response...knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
http://www.cobrajem.com
Charlie, I run into this all the time in remodeling as well as new. HOs don't want to spend money on architects or designers. They either think they can "design" it themselves or think the contractor should do it for free since he's getting to do the work. Judging by the looks of the house, I'd say there never was a design professional previously involved on that house.
Maybe this isn't a problem in your situation, but make sure your architect buddy gets paid for design input and you do also. Otherwise it's all downhill. HOs with this mentality tend to discount the value of everything you do.
DG/Builder
thanks for that dg.
yeah, we bartered on an exchange for labor...I'm going to finish his deck and he'll draft and present a few options for me...and the customer has ok'd a "designer's fee". They are really good people, otherwise I'd have passed on this from day one.
as far as the house goes, it is typical of what is in the neighborhood. This was a model home in the mid 80's for the builder of this development, and all the houses surrounding it are basically variations of this house...only brown..LOTS OF BROWN! this is one of the only houses there that has any color at all.knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
http://www.cobrajem.com
Keep the pictures coming. I gotta see how this turns out.
you and me both!!knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
http://www.cobrajem.com
typical snout house - hard to do a great deal with it. Might want to consider some element above the garage door area - that is a large blank spot
Two small things I'd get rid of for sure: , (1) the roof detail in the gable apex of the garage, (2) the asymmetry at the front door due to the single side lite.
The biggest problem is the dominance of the garage. If you changed the gable into a hip roof, it would be much less prominent, but that's a pretty large undertaking. That change in roofline *might* help you refocus attention to the entry door, but it's a difficult proposition no matter what you do given the current footprint of the house.
Otherwise, you're left with just embracing the dominance of the garage. You could add a nice-looking multi-lite window and center it in the gable to give some character to what is now a large expanse of boring siding. Also, using a different siding material in the gable than on the main floor walls would help break up the expanse.
You mentioned "Craftsman" a couple of times; If you went with this style you could: add brackets and large barge rafters at the roofline; add brackets under the bow window; change light fixtures to art glass lanterns.
Some of the landscaping changes others have suggested might also integrate into a Craftsman theme.
Edited 3/25/2006 2:11 am ET by Ragnar17
PS: I'd like to agree with whoever said that curves (palladium windows, etc) isn't consistant with Craftsman style homes.
Thanks all for your responses! It's nice to wake up and get the cheese in my head chruning into gear with all the different responses...
keep em comming!knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
http://www.cobrajem.com
Yup, a snout house. Actually been zoned out of existance in some places. Not to my taste at all. Temple and monument to the automobile.
Any chance they'd go for walling off half the front of the garage with an exterior that matched the rest of the house with a nice window and then having a single garage door to one side. The sf of the garage looks to exceed that of the house. Is there really a need for a two car garage? One bay for a car and the bay now without car access for storage/work space.
Maybe a front porch from the house out even with the garage or even beyond it to reduce the prominence of the garage. Trouble with that is it would tend to make the interior of the house darker.
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
My design philosophy is that the house tells you what it wants, not the other way around. This is a take off on Andy Engel's "don't try to teach a pig to sing. it doesn't work and annoys the pig."
The problem you have here is that the house has no design. It's an accumulation of mismatched features, and it's only real purpose is to be the gravestone for the arch who came up with it.
If the HOs had the budget, and it made financial sense based on market and resale values, they should wipe the slate clean and let the bones tell them what style the house wants to be. The windows are a killer. The garage is a killer. The gable is a killer. This house will never be craftsman.
With a limited budget, and the most obvious "curb appeal" problem that the unbearably ugly garage is the primary feature of the front of the house, I would ignore the rest of the front (except to remove the shutters and change out the front door consistent with the garage) and just deal with the garage itself. Settle on a style, find proper garage doors (probably split them into 2 doors to break it up), put another ugly window above to break up the expanse of the gable end and maybe a 2' pergola cantelevered over the garage door. Plant wisteria to grow across the pergola. If they can afford to change over the windows, do it. They're hideous.
SHGFor every complex problem, there is a solution that is clear, simple, and wrong.
-H.L. Mencken
One last thing about the barrel vault over the front door. Don't. It's just wrong. In the right place, they're great. This is not the place. It's just adding another mismatched feature that won't work with anything else. They might think it will go with the windows, but the last thing you want to do is take a bad idea (palladian windows) and expand on it. I like the idea of a louvered vent in the garage gable instead of a window. Makes more sense, less expensive and accomplishes the same thing.
SHGFor every complex problem, there is a solution that is clear, simple, and wrong.
-H.L. Mencken
I agree with the garage area...it is a red spot on a white dress...just ugly and completely focus driven...We are going to break it up and try to detour the eye elsewhere...knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
http://www.cobrajem.com
That's a lot empty space above the garage door. What about just doing the upper gable of that garage in Cedar Impressions or something like that? Just break it up some and give the eye something else to look at.
That dormer thing on the roof is the killer though. With the rakes running so close to each other it looks like it's sinking into the house. Can't think of anything you can do with that on a short budget.
On the porch, it looks like the beams are painted the same as the rest of the space. (I'll have to go back and look, I might be wrong). Just painting them white or another contrasting color will give it some more definition and shadows to look at. It just kind of all slurs together.
EDIT: I took another look at the porch and now I can see better. There was a glare on my computer screen. That whole area could be reworked to make it look nicer. There should be some resemblance of a beam running across the front. I'd leave the height alone, but push the soffit/ceiling up for definition, and paint it a different color than the house color. Probably just white would work. Then rework the front of that soffit to make it look like a beam. This would give that corner board (with the house numbers on it) something to hold up. Corner boards are supposed to resemble columns that hold something up. The one there now just sorta terminates halfway through the soffit. Also, solid white vinyl soffit material would make a nice cheap ceiling in there.
I also think the upper returns on the dormer are too large for the space they occupy. Maybe scale them back some so they don't draw the eye so much.
Another Edit: I just re-read your first post again and it seems you've already covered much of what I suggested. (Guess the glare on my screen was worse than I thought!lol) I like the idea of a barrel vault in the entry way. How about pulling the rakes of that little front dormer out so that they have the same overhang as the soffit on either side. Then the fascia would come across, head up and back down the little gable and continue on as fascia on the other side. Know what I mean? So that it would be continuous. It would break up all those sharp angles and terminations around those clunky returns flanking the little dormer.
The bow window is tough. Is it staying? Anyway to do raised panels above and below to make it look like a full walkout rather than just the window? I don't know if that would hurt or help things.
View Image
Edited 3/25/2006 1:21 pm ET by dieselpig
Edited 3/25/2006 1:28 pm ET by dieselpig
thanks Brian...looks like we're on the same page as far as ideas...
I met with them yesterday and it looks like we are going to add cedar shakes above the garage door with some sort of additional window or gable vent...the barrel vault is looking good and the bay windows will be addressed in some fashion...
also pitched the option of getting rid of the small dormer above the door and putting in a skylight...we'll see.
it all comes down to money...them paying for it and me making it!knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
http://www.cobrajem.com
Hey Charlie!
I'm just curious as to how much that house would sell for as is. How many sq.ft., # of beds and baths, ?
BTW the garage door idea looks bitchen.
TRIGGER
Put a round vent over the garage door. Bag the sidelight on the entry door, but keep the glass. The screen door uglifies the door thats there. The sinking gable is really, uh, yeah, uh huh, hmmmm....... Some paint changes to the left of the gable might help camoflage it away. The front window is tough to take. So are the shutters. A really smart person will know when to stop spending on this. I have a 70's barker of a home, and have not yet learned to stop spending on it so I have a big mea culpa on that topic1Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities- Voltaire
Here is the pic of the old carriage house doors I am going to copy for my shop and a couple of pics of the last craftsman style door I did (nothing real noteworthy). BTW I know you mean to do a cottage style, but even full-on craftsman would be fine with me...just sick of builder basic. I don't mind mixing styles myself.
Charlie,
Sounds like the homeowners want to make their tract home into a castle. I would advise these folks to be very careful on what spend on facade of this house. If they go wild they will not see a return of their investment on resale.
I'm an appraiser. I have dealt with homeowners who have overimproved their home for the neighborhood they are in. One guy spent $35K to dig out the crawl on his Split Level and convert it to a basement. He got mad at me when I gave him $15K value increase for a 500 sq. foot UNFINISHED basement. What he didn't realize is that the $15K was generous. In his neighborhood the quad level Splits were selling only $8K - $10K higher than the tri-levels.
That being said, it's their money. The front facade of this house is way out of balance. In my opinion the best candidate to balance the size of the Garage is the bay window. With the addition of a roof structure of some sort it could balance the Garage element, see attached photo.
I'm assuming the room with the bay window is the living room. Assuming you could do it structurally an added window above the bay could make a dramatic statement on the inside of the house as well.
Edited 3/26/2006 3:00 am ET by catch32
I like what you did with the dormer above the bay window. Really helps balance the garage. Would be even cooler if the dormer could also be faceted like the bay--angled walls--but hard to fram and costly I'm sure.
thanks for your response...
I like the idea of the dormer above the bay window...and it would work well with the large living room behind it...I meet with them again next week and will pitch it to it to them..
as for your other concerns...I don't get the feeling from them that they are looking at putting what would be the equavalent of 21" spinner rims on Pinto...they understand what they are working with and have set some rather rigid parameters for us to work in budget wise..and they seem to be very sensible people.
I once had a guy that wanted to put a 15,000 bathroom in his 89,000 house...and thought I was nuts that I didn't think it would add 30,000 to the sale price...knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
http://www.cobrajem.com
Paint.
There is nothing about the yellow body color that helps this house. I'd go with a much darker, muted shade of something else. Think gray with an addition of some combination of green/red/blue. No, not to change it to green, or red, or blue, but just enouch color for a rich, subtle effect.
Then think about a trim color that is complimentary to the body color you decide on.
Bruce
Between the mountains and the desert ...
Is that dommer functional. It looks like a dummy window in the picture.What about just lossing it altogther?
yeah, it is a window that provides light to the bathroom below it. I'm going to push them to omit the thing altogether and put in a skylight...but we'll see...
it's all going to come down to money.knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
http://www.cobrajem.com
well i see lot's of good stuff that can be done ....Garage door you could make you own carrage door just by adding a 1/4" skin and some applied mouldings .
the gable box could be turned into a bat house they are attractive
put a wooden 30 degree bevel wooden drip from soffit box to soffit box and add cedar shingles and some cedar trim boards over garage door
get rid of the vinly corners and clad the corners with cedar and trim the windows with cedar
if the windows are all at the same height put a freeze board around the house
build a cupola for the garage roof and so on ...will send ya some pics of houses i have done if interested
any pics would be great...
never heard the term "bat house"...could you elaborate?knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
http://www.cobrajem.com
paint is completely their department...I think they are going with a 3-4 color scheme but as far as the exact palate...that is up to themknowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
http://www.cobrajem.com