Replies

1. 
   maliseetroofer | Nov 24, 2003 06:44am | #1

   hello will,

   pine is good for cabinets regarding it is pine plywood. do a 1/4" pine laminated to malimine on the outside and the inside shelves is malimimedo the cabinets mostly of malimime.  if you try it mostly of 3/4 pine ply you have a lot of staining to do.  for the stain i preferr polyurethane(3 coates)

1. 
   brownbagg | Nov 24, 2003 07:03am | #2

   I like that knobby pine with a clear coat

   The best employee you can have but you wouldn't want him as a neighbor " He the shifty type"

1. 
   maliseetroofer | Nov 24, 2003 07:12am | #3

   i know how you feel.  my boss lives across the street.  he's not a problem, his wife is. pine ply is also sold in white pine(no knotts)very costly but beutiful wood.

2. 
   RW | Nov 24, 2003 07:23am | #4

   Okay, a little incredulous that you're asking after the bid is accepted, but nonetheless . . . Pine is difficult to stain, yes. It's because the early and latewood offer differing densities and absorption rates.  They even sand a little different, which is sometimes evident enough to be seen where the grain lines grow wide, like on cathedral figure.

   As to what pine looks good, that's totally subjective. Some like the knotty rustic look. I'm more the guy that if it has to be pine, it's going to be clear, tight, SYP. For staining, you can do a couple of things, depending on your whims, to at least reduce the issue.

   1) gel stains by their nature do not absorb as much as oil based stains. They tend therefore not to blotch as easily, but can take a little practice to use since they can be used for different effects. I'll wager if you brush on and wipe off, you'll have nearly the same end result as any other stain. If you cut it a little and brush it on evenly and let it sit and dry that way, you'll obscure the grain some but have a more even color. 

   2) pretreating the wood with either a wood conditioner or a very cut down layer of dewaxed shellac will partially seal the wood and therefore help to even out stain absorption. 

   3) Alcohol or other NGR dyes - dye particles are hundreds or even thousands of times smaller than the particulate matter ground for your average stain. Dyes will offer a more even color on almost any wood. This doesn't really obscure the grain so much as it simply reduces the contrast by giving the whole thing a more monochromatic look. 

   4) Sherwin makes a stain in their Sherwood line that's a Xylene based stain concentrate. Effective technique with this product for blotch prone woods - brush it on, it does not have to sit long at all. Wipe it off, immediately take a brush just moistened with xylene or lacquer thinner (wet, but not dripping all over) and brush the piece back and forth. It will pull the darker areas out and even the contrast. I prefer this method because it's simple, effective, and the Xylene based stains dry super fast so I don't have to twiddle my thumbs waiting for things to dry. You can lacquer over it in an hour. If your topcoat is going to be brushed, however, give it extra time to set so you don't pull the color into the topcoat.

   "The child is grown / The dream is gone / And I have become / Comfortably numb "      lyrics by Roger Waters

1. 
   hacknhope | Nov 24, 2003 11:05am | #5

   Definitely take up the wood conditioner suggestion or you might have a horrible problem with blotches and you can't fix them.  A "circa 1850" brand product was a huge improvement, but I can't compare to others. Also, practice a lot on scraps of the same material, of mixed densities.

1. 
   ProBozo | Nov 24, 2003 06:38pm | #6

   saw in the woodworker supply catalog recently that they have a new? stain for poplar -- keeps it from being blotchy....check it out, might work on pine too.   I was thinking i'd give some a try.

   You also may want to ask this over at knots

2. 
   Piffin | Nov 25, 2003 01:42am | #8

   I'll take a ticket to stand in the line for recommending fine sanding and conditioner to avoid the spotchieness.

   But let's all remember that we are talking amoung a group of "Fine" Homebuilders. I think half or moire of the population wouldn't recognize a splotchy uneven stain job unless you pointed it out to them.

   Another thing that I don't know if has been mentioned, a light stain colour shows the unevenness less than a dark. In other words, the closer the colour is to natural, the less the problem is..

   Excellence is its own reward!

3. 
   goldhiller | Nov 24, 2003 06:41pm | #7

   RW has covered many techniques already, but I'll add another to the list of contolling color on highly blotch prone woods. Shading and toning materials.

   Technique I usually use involves shooting a clear coat first, followed by either just the colorant or by coats of the colorant suspended in the finish material. A bit of a difference in appearance in the two approaches, but either does obscure the grain a bit. Not a lot, but some. Still, it beats the H out of looking at a blotchy piece. Mixed with the finish = more depth in visual appearance. I like that.

   Materials for this that I'm most familiar with are those from Mohawk Finishing. Either the base concentrate or universal colorants depending upon the approach you choose (suspended color or not) as the base concentrate isn't compatable mixed direct with varnish or any finish containing large amounts of mineral spirits.

   If you shoot (this must all be done by spray gun) the colorant direct and then clear coat over the top, make sure you mix the base concentrate well on the weak side and sneak up on the desired result. Then clear coats over the top.

   If suspending the color, 1 part color to 10 parts finish + thinner is a nice color-controllable recipe. Again, build color slowly and when complete, shoot a couple of clears over the top. Of course, this procedure can't be done entirely with cat-lacquers as the final film thickness will exceed that allowed. Save the cat for the final coats if your going to use it.

   Minimum order at Mohawk is currently $85 + S&H. That's about 4 quarts of the colorant and a quart goes a long, long way. So you might want to seek out a cab shop in your area that would sell you want you need for this project. On the other hand, those base concentrates and universals can be used to mix your stains as well... for other projects.

   Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.