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pine flooring over vinyl

RedfordHenry | Posted in Construction Techniques on September 28, 2009 02:26am

Situation: Future guest bedroom on first floor in an antique home.  Client would like to do some general upgrades, mostly cosmetic.  Existing floor is old sheet vinyl over ??.  I am planning to drill a few holes to determine exactly what the subfloor is comprised of. 

Existing flooring is actually in good condition, no tears or lifting, etc.  I haven’t checked completely yet but the existing floor seems reasonably flat with no soft or springy areas. 

Future floor will be 1x pine v-match, face nailed with cut nails.

Normally, the old floor comes up, but I sense that any attempt to remove the vinyl would likely lead to ripping out everything down to the joists.  I am presently assuming the existing subfloor is 1x with some sort of underlayment for the vinyl.

Assuming the subfloor is reasonably sound, I am considering installing the pine directly over the vinyl but wanted to ask others opinions.  Would you even consider this?   

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  1. User avater
    NickNukeEm | Sep 28, 2009 04:01pm | #1

    Although I don't see any reason why not, I'm sure someone who has actually done it will chime in and give some more usable advice.

    My reason for replying is to caution you on the use of pine flooring.  I have wide pine plank flooring, installed in 1985, and it is in horrendous condition.  I've had the house on the market for almost a year, and the first thing people see when they enter is the terrible floors (the RE agent doesn't want us to refinish the floors until we move out to give the new owners - whoever they might be - undamaged floors.)  Unless you are using reclaimed antique pine, I would reconsider your present plan. 

    And if you do install new pine floors, think twice, and then again, about using the exposed nails.  They might look antiquey and quaint, but refinishing those floors in 15-20 years will be a bear.

    "I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul."  Invictus, by Henley.

  2. User avater
    Dinosaur | Sep 28, 2009 06:47pm | #2

    The vinyl or linoleum tile is no problem, but I'll second what Nick said about face nailing the pine: you or your successors will regret it. Pine flooring needs to be refinished within 15-20 years, depending on traffic and the owners' tolerance for dings and wear. You start trying to sand face-nailed floorboards and you're gonna shred belts, then get down on your hands and knees with a nail set....

    OTOH, I have no problem using pine flooring per se. As long as you realise it won't wear like hardwood and that's okay with you.

    Dinosaur

    How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
    low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
    foolish men call Justice....

  3. FastEddie | Sep 28, 2009 07:01pm | #3

    One reason not to remove the vinyl is that it, or the adhesive,  might contain asbestos.

    "Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

    "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

    1. User avater
      Dinosaur | Sep 29, 2009 12:35am | #5

      That sounds like a good reason to leave it alone, actually. It doesn't bother anybody unless it gets abraded and the particles become airborne.

      Dinosaur

      How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....

      1. RedfordHenry | Sep 29, 2009 02:51am | #6

        Thanks for the valid reasons to leave the vinyl down.  My clients are quite aware of the pitfalls of pine flooring, but this will be for a guest bedroom "suite" in a 200+ yo house.  Will get minimal traffic (plus ~five coats of oil based poly).  I might actually be using some reclaimed fir which would wear a heck of a lot nicer.  We'll see..  

    2. Piffin | Sep 29, 2009 07:45am | #8

      that is actually a darn good reason NOT to remove it. 

       

      Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

      1. FastEddie | Sep 29, 2009 05:18pm | #9

        Even if the vinyl itself is clean, the mastic might be hot.  I am preparing to do a major renovation of a branch, which was built in the early 70's, and we have discovered that all the sheetrock joint compound is hot.  Demolition is going to be a nightmare, cuz it has to stay open for business."Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

        "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

        1. Piffin | Sep 30, 2009 02:03pm | #10

          None of that applies to this vinyl.it is almost always better to leave it in place and encapsulate rather than to disturb it and send particles flying around that will be in the air for the next 18 months or so. 

           

          Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          1. FastEddie | Oct 01, 2009 03:19am | #11

            Nope, does not apply, just an interesting comment."Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

            "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

  4. andybuildz | Sep 28, 2009 11:46pm | #4

    I faced nailed all of the wide pine plank flooring down in my own house (see my website below if you want & look in the goose hill rd project).
    What I did was I set all the nails enough so it can be sanded........one time.

    I'd have to say that anyone that wants pine floors doesn't care about the worn dinged up look it gets over time so any sanding they'd do would be pretty much a good screening or very fine paper grit.

    I'd be weary of nailing over a cushiony surface especially face nailing b/c face nails pretty much go straight in vs toe nailing which gives the nail a bit more holding power.

    I also glued the planks as well as nailing them using tubes of PL. Not sure how the PL will work on vinyl...especially with any kind of gloss or greasy film.

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  5. Piffin | Sep 29, 2009 07:28am | #7

    Yes, but use rosin paper or tarpaper to prevent squeaks.

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

  6. User avater
    dedhed6b | Oct 01, 2009 04:34am | #12

    Rethink V match, the V's will collect every thing. Consider shiplap or just butt square stock together.

    "Shawdow boxing the appoclipse and wandering the land"
    Wier/Barlow

    1. RedfordHenry | Oct 01, 2009 05:05am | #13

      For flooring, the V's go down against the subfloor

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