O.K. I posted this over on one of the other sites and didn’t get much of a response. Maybe it’s because I have it all covered. What do you guys think?
It looks like the company I work for is expanding to the Carolinas. And until they can find someone to run the operation there I’ll be traveling back and forth to work there as needed which will probably be most of the summer. I have been wanting to build a reinforced room anyway but this little twist is causing me to accelerate my need to get the ball rolling.I’m going to build it in my garage/shop to lock up my tools. The building is block with a cement floor. I am going to build it in a corner so I will only have the front and one side to worry about reinforcing as the back wall and one side will be against the block. I will be putting up metal studs on the four walls so I will have depth for insulation. And of course I will have a plastic vapor barrier along the concrete walls for moisture protection. Here’s the layout. I have designated a 4’x 7′ area Four deep by seven long. The studs are going to be metal. On the outside of the studs I’m going to wrap the room in metal mesh to act as a cage/barrier, this includes the ceiling. Then I’m going to use green board over that and on the inside because there is bound to be moisture as it’s in an un-heated garage. The door will be steel of course with a profesional deadbolt. And it’s a given that any wiring will be in conduit. A buddy of mine who does access control is going to hook up a simple key switch that’s controlled from inside the house. So even if you do come up with a key or a way to pick the lock it won’t let you open it. The room will also be alarmed.
The one thing I’m not 100% sure about is the green board for drywall. I live in Kentucky and there is a alot of humidity. I’m hoping that since it works in bathrooms so well it should be fine in the garage. Anything I missed? I want to be sure I get it right, before I do it.
I learned the reinforcement stuff when I helped rough in an I.N.S, Q.R.T. building in North Carolina recently. The rest I’ve picked up working in banks and helping our alarm guys doing bank security. The reason I’m not just reinforcing the whole garage is because I can do this project for under three hundred, and it will give me a nice conditioned enviroment to store my tools to prevent them from sweating and such. And it will free up a lot of bench and wall space.Besides I’ve always wanted to do it. So do you guys think I have it all covered?
Replies
Gunner,
I saw it over at Joe's but like you said, they ain't much missing.
If they want in, they will get in. All you can do is make sure they bring a lot of different tools with them.
Gabe
Steel studs are not strong in bending. Frame at least the door rough opening with 2by. There was a tip in a fairly recent FHB (within the last 2 years, I'm pretty sure) about getting more secure installation of hinge screws by using a wider trimmer, so it comes out flush with the face of the drywall, or greenboard in your case.
Which brings up another issue. If the door opens in, you're wasting a big chunk of your 35 square feet. If it opens out, you'll need some kind of tamper-resistant hinges.
Consider sheathing the room with 3/4" ply, glued and screwed, maybe both inside and out.
Insulation only makes sense if there's going to be a temperature differential. You do say that it is going to be a conditioned space, but I don't see where you say if you're going to heat it, or air condition it, or dehumidify it, or what. Same with the vapor barrier, if there's no temperature difference between the room and the garage, there shouldn't be any water vapor condensing anywhere.
If a bad storm knocks the power out and you _need_ to board up a window, for instance, will you be able to get to your tools?
How about a video camera mounted inconspicuously somewhere in the garage. Or a fake video camera mounted conspicuously. Foil tape on the windows and a burglar alarm warning sign?
In one sense, the whole exercise seems kind of pointless, in that no matter what you build, right on up to a reinforced concrete bank vault, it can be breached by anybody who knows you're going to be in South Carolina for a week and can get into your garage. Physical security is always a matter of persuading the bad guy that it would be easier to steal from somebody else. How bad are the burglars in your neighborhood?
I think a dry room for your tools is probably a good idea, but once you get it to the point where somebody can't just casually pop the door open, maybe a little extra insurance would be a better inverstment than making the room stronger. Or asking a neighbor to keep an eye on it. (Unless your neighbors are the ones you think are going to take the tools.)
For all the work you're proposing, why not just cut in a footing and lay in more concrete block for the additional two walls? Anyone could cut through pretty much any wall configuration described so far. You could insulate the inside with rigid foam, lay in freestanding shelves and strap them off to the block, and go with the alarm system you talked about. Costwise, I don't think it would differ much...
I've priced the whole thing for $250- $300 The price of one Paslode impulse. It's not that big of a deal to build. Myself and my nephew helping can put it up in a day. Another day to wire the alarm and access control. I don't really think it's all that hard to build.
for a bullet proof room my I suggest hanging some kevlar-enhanced fiber board.
LOL I'm not looking for bullett proof,but I have been around the stuff your talking about. Pretty cool stuff, banks use it alot to protect their teller lines.
Gunner or Pannamared,
Have you got a web site for that stuff. Our cashiers window area of our customer service lobby is the only place we haven't remodeled. It is about 18 years old and looks it. Aside from the bullet proof glass, the whole cabinet line is built around 1/2" plate steel. the very thought of changing any of that makes my butt pucker, if you know what I mean. Sounds like this kevlar reinforced panel would be a whole lot more installer friendly.
Dave
Dave-
National Gypsum (http://www.nationalgypsum.com) makes a Lexan backed wall board they call Hi-Impact Brand. They sell it for prisons and such.
Ted
Don't think a Lexan backed product would afford the protection of the 1/2" steel plate we have now. We have never been robbed, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. We have had the police respond to crisis calls on occassions, to escort an irrate customer out of the building when our security people could not talk them into leaving. You might be surprised at how upset some people get when thier gas and electricty are turned off. That 1/2" of steel and bp glass provides a real sense of security to the people that work behind it.
Dave
IMHO what you really need is some analysis of the threats you wish to counter. Some thought as to what what potential sort of forces your dealing with and how long you will have to keep them at bay will yield a more meaningful result.
Designs made to counter heavy weather, storms, tornados etc. will differ from rooms designed for physical security from intruders. Even rooms designed to protect from intruders may vary considerably. Most robberies are committed on a target of opportunity and are easily deterred by the simplest of means. On the other extreme a concerted attack by a trained and well equipped group would likely penetrate any defense. Even the DoD frequently concedes defeat and adopts a planned retreat strategy where the attackers are delayed as the family flee out a hidden escape route.
Anything you can do to harden a safe room will help but uneven coverage will only waste money and leave you vulnerable.
When I was working on the Federal courthouse reno. in Portland Me., one of my co-workers had the unenviable job of lining the judges bench with 3/8" Kevlar. No one knew how to cut the stuff , some one suggested a jigsaw w/ a metal blade, % minutes later he was 1/4 inch into the stuff and the blade looked like he had taken a torch to it! If I recall he ended up using carbide grit blades and it was still slow going.
The 3/8' stuff was supposed to stop anything short of a 357 mag. Down stairs on the street level was the federal Marshall' offices with the holding cells for the Bad guys (sp) The windows got 2" thick lexan. This was speced to stop a shoulder launched rocket propelled grenade! I hope it never has to!!
some one was going to take a chunk of the Kevlar home and "experiment" on it with his hunting rifles never heard about the results though.
Mr TLayers
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Dave they are the way to go. http://www.armortex.com/welcome-products.html
Diebold inc. also provides bullet resistant glass and other bank security equipment. They don't offer the wallboard though.
The only thing I might caution you about is providing a capillary break between the greenboard and any masonary contact. Green board is water resistant untill you cut it, then like anything else it can wick in water. I don't have any trouble with my block walls sweating in a unheated detached garage, but the slab does. Crazy thing about that is it is 4" concrete over 6" crushed stone with a poly vapor barrier under the slab. At certin times of the year a piece of DW setting on my garage floor cuold soak up a lot of water. You know how crazy the weather and humidity is around here Gunner.
Dave
Dave this is the kind of stuff I'm looking for, good point. And yes our weather is crazy,especialy latley. I have had enough rain.
From the few I've seen, aren't chain-link enclosures or wrought-iron cages the popular way to go ?
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I have a safe room in my basement using crib style construction as follows:
Used let-in lag bolts and liquid nails to attach a 2x4 treated bottom plate to the floor leaving space for a two foot door.
Constructed the walls by laying courses of 2x4 s flat on top of the bottom plate with interlocking corners pig pen style. these were shot down with a nail gun using lots of 16p nails. The wall was stopped short of the ceiling to allow the nail gun to function.
The roof was constructed of Three layers of 2x6 s cris crossed with sheet metal between each layer and on top.
For resistance to sawing I put a thin strip of sheet metal between the wall layers at every other course before nailing.
The door was built the same way.
The outside of the walls and the door is/are covered with green roofing metal.
Used real heavy strap hinges with carriage bolts to support the door, these are covered by the sheet metal finish .
Used the heaviest hasp and lock system I could find . The hasp is attached like the hinges and is covered with the finish sheet metal.
Of course the lock is the weakest part of my system but the room is extremely fire proof and the construction will hopefully delay entry until police or neighbors are alerted by the house alarm system
Arrow,
You live in Bierut?
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