Plastic post protector for pole building
Stray
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
I’ve hemmed and hawed about how to build my shop, and have run into numerous roadblock delays along the way. What it comes down to is it ainn’t gonna get built unless it’s post-frame style (due to funds, or lack there of). I’ve always worried about longevity of the wood in the ground though.
Anyone ever used these:
Looks like a plausable idea. Various places on the net have them at like $25-$35 each. Not cheap, but still not as expensive as a 4′ poured stemwall and footer….
Location is upstate NY. 32’X32′ single story
Any feedback appreciated!
Thanks.
Ithaca, NY “10 square miles, surrounded by reality”
Replies
Have you seen these?
Welcome to Perma-Column
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I did, but asummed the price is even higher than the protector sleeves. Ithaca, NY "10 square miles, surrounded by reality"
I realize this is a VERY old thread, but I am just in love with the Perma Column product!!! Well referenced, Eric Paulson! :D
stray... around here.. we have to use PT poles ( usually 4x6 ) that have been treated to .60 retention
most ground contact PT is treated to .40
i have no concerns about burying our .40 PT posts for decks , etc
if you use .60 it should outlast you and i on this earth
forget about the fancy protectors.. dig your post holes to your local frost line.. mix a bag of Quikcrete for each post.. tamp it nice and level so you can dance the posts into alignment
and backfill with well draining gravel
i think you're going to like pole-barn construction
I agree with you and have thought of one more thing to do to keep the poles going a long time. Oil/poly porch paint. Paint the stuff on the post up to a foot maybe above the ground level. In other words, seal the treatment into the wood with this tough paint. Microorganisms do not get into the wood as easily and the preservative can't leach out. I do not build these but do think about adding small ones to what I do.Nobody is as good as they seem, nobody is as bad as they seem either.
Thanks Mike. My gut agrees with what you say about longevity.
With the "new" PT chemicals, I didn't know if there was any hesitation with their long term performance underground. Sometimes when you take the "bad" stuff out of a product...it doesn't work as well (like asbestos in cementitious roofing!).
I have done pole frame constrcution on barns for others, and I do like it. Quick and straightfwd; which will get me into my workshop sooner...Ithaca, NY "10 square miles, surrounded by reality"
Site work and finish grading will keep your posts good forever.
If liquid water doesn't sit on them at ground level, they will last basically forever.
If those perma columns mentioned above appeal to you, I know Fingerlakes Construction in Cortland carries them. I looked into them a while ago, they are pretty expensive.
My thought was to use the perma column to above grade then frame the pole building with non-treated lumber. Might be worth running the numbers to see if worth it dollar wise. If I did it I would use rough-cut hemlock or pine for the framing, which is widely available in the area for about .35 cents a bd. ft.
Edited 1/24/2007 7:24 am ET by andyb
I'll give Fingerlakes a call. Thanks for the tip. Ithaca, NY "10 square miles, surrounded by reality"
We have bought finger jointed poles - the first 5-6 feet are treated, then untreated above - this enables us to use nailguns and standard hardware above grade. Drill the hole, drop in a concrete pill, place the pole, backfill.
I haven't priced it, but pouring cement in the holes to grade and welding perma-column like brackets could be a reasonable solution for someone who doesn't want the poles in the ground.
I've never heard of that. Is it .60 treated? How is the price, compared to a regular PT pole?Ithaca, NY "10 square miles, surrounded by reality"
Here is the website of a company I have used. The real savings com in when you start to go with the longer poles. For an example, on their closeouts flier, 6x6-16's are $34, and laminated poles are $52. I have ordered 30' poles from them.
*Posts treated with 0.60 CCA Glu-lam bottom approximately 6'9” is treated with 0.60CCA Treated yellow Pine (TYP)
http://www.abmartin.net/index.htm
and finally,
Build your pole building twice the size you think you will need, and tall enough to facilitate trucks with racks/canoes whatever on top.
Treat every person you meet like you will know them the rest of your life - you just might!
Thansk for the link!
I hear you about the size, but my lot is tight, and I can only get 32' X 32'. Even had to get a setback zoning variance to do that much.
10' ceiling will be high enough to pull my truck/canoe into it; but with any luck there will be too many tools in the way to ever do that!Ithaca, NY "10 square miles, surrounded by reality"
Regarding pressure-treated poles:
All of your utility poles are pressure-treated wood. Typically they use an extra treatment for the butt end, often using small knives to make small notches in the pole to improve penetration.
I can show you poles that I KNOW were erected in the '20s at the most recent. So, proper treatment will give you a long, long life.
Yeah...but those oldies were coated in great (but carcinogenic) creosote. I just wasn't sure if the new CCA treatment was likely to last as long.Ithaca, NY "10 square miles, surrounded by reality"
What Mike Smith said, plus:The "new" treatment is called ACQ. CCA has been around for a long time and does contain suppposedly bad stuff.Around here (Colorado), I can still get the CCA .60 retention type members in 6x6 and up. Everything I see at Lowes/HD is ACQ and is probably less reliable plus it requires stainless hardware/fasteners.You do not need to protect CCA .60 retention timbers any further, IMO.That's how I built my shop and a number of other shop and ag use buildings over the years. I know of at least two homes in our area that are built the same way.It is also pretty common here for four 2x6 treated to be spliced together to form a post. The company (Cleary Buildings) that does this all the time claims that using 2x fastened together is better than using 6x since more treatment is deep inside the wood. Maybe. maybe doesn't matter.I've never seen a piece of CCA .60 that showed any signs of rot.Odd thing about the plastic sleeve idea is that, when used as shown on their website with no roof and/or siding above, they would be subject to water running down inside them and being relatively trapped since it couldn't evaporate out through the plastic sleeve.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Thanks... I was missusing my CCA's and ACQ's PDQ CAQWMDLKTOSMFKR....
I wondered the same thing about the open protectors becoming a bathtub of sorts. They do suggest sealing the top, but I think some kind of counterflashing would work better and allow it to breath.
They also claim ther are breathing vents along the full legnth of th units. Hard to tell how effective they'd be without looking at one up close. That's why I wondered if anyone had ever used 'em.
I think I'll look for CCA .60 around here and go with that. Might go wth the treated-bottom posts mentioned above if I can get them here competitively $.
Thanks everyone.Ithaca, NY "10 square miles, surrounded by reality"
Doggone TLA confusion!TLA: Three Letter Acronym; )
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
i have 65 year old pole barn here,5" round post. last year i did replace one,the rest are in great shape.i don't know about you but i don't need them to last longer than 50 yrs.!larry
hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.