Replies

1. 
   BarryO | Nov 03, 2003 12:57am | #1

   He probably meant PEX ('think it stands for "cross-linked polyethylene").  It seems to be  the new standard for plumbing.  Materlals aren't cheaper than copper, but labor savings are significant.

   Just had the 30+ yr. old galvanized pipe in my place replaced with PEX.  The stubs sticking out of the walls are still copper, so it looks like a "normal" plumbing job once the drywall goes up.

2. 
   wafflehead | Nov 03, 2003 02:12am | #2

   My friend just built a house. The plumber used PEX pipe. It the new thing... My friend says that the water has a funky plastic taste.... Use copper, don't mess with a  good thing.

1. 
   Wet_Head | Nov 11, 2003 06:25am | #5

   interesting since PEX doesn't offgas.  I wish I knew more about your friend's situation. 

1. 
   wafflehead | Nov 11, 2003 07:21am | #6

   Plumbers use PEX because it makes their jobs easier. Easy to fish plastic pipes through walls, no soldering, rigid pipes, elbows, etc. He uses the house as a vacation home. The water sits in the piping for weeks. he says that the water has a plastic aftertaste even after letting it run for a while. Many of these products are new and have not yet withstood the test of time... you know. LP siding,. masonite roofs, plastic pipe, EIFS, etc. I say stick to a sure thing. use copper piping. Sure, more work, but no regrets.

   Take care.

   " Only a rich man can afford to buy cheap tools".

   Wafflehead.

1. 
   Wet_Head | Nov 11, 2003 07:33am | #7

   How many years does it take for you to consider it to be time tested?

   Also are you aware that time is being very ugly to copper in a lot of places?

   I enjoyed your response even if I disagree with you. 

2. 
   bill_1010 | Nov 11, 2003 07:36am | #8

   PEX has been used for over 20 yrs in RV and mobilehome applications.   Its pretty much proven.  Gas companies use their version of PEX for gas lines.   Heating contractors use it for hydronic heating.  PEX isnt new, its just catching on in both availablity and ease.  

   It can expand up to 5x its size before bursting. 

   PEX has very little joints whereas copper, pvc and other hard pipe has multiple fittings, allowing for more human error and more human labor to take time on the job.

   There isnt a thing wrong with PEX plumbingfor remodels its the ideal situation. PEX is more verstile in its applications and use then rigid line.  

1. 
   wafflehead | Nov 11, 2003 08:21am | #9

   OK. If that is the case, I stand corrected. Now, you are not confusing it with that grey PB pipe , or that white pipe with the yellow line? ( can't remember the name).They are both part of recalls and  class action cases.

   You are right  in that PEX it is just breaking into the residential market here in the northwest. It seems that a " new " plastic product is introduced into the plumbing  market every year, and plumbers go from one plastic pipe to another one. However, copper seems to be the benchmark that we all use for proven quality.

   Later

2. 
   csnow | Nov 11, 2003 06:40pm | #11

   Some municipal water supplies are brutal to copper.  In many cases, non-reactive PEX is going to be the better bet for longevity.

   Folks are gunshy about plastic pipe because of all the PB class action business.  Much of this is wildly overblown, but only careful research could uncover the truth through the sensational media reports and legal claims.  No lawyers or reporters will show up when a copper pipe fails, or a steel pipe fails.  This has more to do with the depth of the manufacturer's pockets than anything else.  You cannot get much legal traction against the fragmented copper producers, and you cannot realistically blame them for inventing copper as a pipe material.

   PEX has a lot of 'burn-in' time in Europe, and the PB perception problem has really carried over to slow adoption of PEX in the USA.

   One 'area of concern' under study that seems to be worth considering is whether PEX can really support a dangerous biofilm or not in the real world.

3. 
   HammerHarry | Nov 11, 2003 06:54pm | #12

   Since almost all new municipal water systems use plastic pipe, why would someone think it makes a difference to use copper for the in-house stuff?

4. 
   csnow | Nov 11, 2003 07:09pm | #13

   Good point, though I think in the case of the PEX bio-film studies, temperature is a big factor.  Even cold water lines in a home are likely to see 70-80 degrees.  Hot water lines see a broad range of temps.

   Muni supplies can use polyethyelene or other materials rated for low temp applications.

   The supply lines in my neighborhood are asbestos cement and lead!

   Private wells have their own set of issues...

   Edited 11/11/2003 12:15:16 PM ET by csnow

5. 
   NormKerr | Nov 11, 2003 08:49pm | #14

   A big difference between all of those examples (domestic vs. municipal) is the rate of use.

   A piece of lead pipe in a home will get very few gallons of water passing by it than one in a water main under the street. Not only will the larger volume tend to dilute any contamination, but also the sitting water in a residential pipe gives more time for contaminates, or bacteria in the case of plastic pipe, to develop and cause an issue that might never occur in a 1ft diameter muni pipe.

   Norm

6. 
   HammerHarry | Nov 11, 2003 09:19pm | #15

   Last year, our city removed the last (they think) section of WOODEN sewer main.

   Edited 11/11/2003 1:20:20 PM ET by Cairo

7. 
   csnow | Nov 12, 2003 07:42pm | #16

   Cool.  Are you really from Cairo?

8. 
   tenpenny | Nov 12, 2003 08:07pm | #17

   God, no.  That's the dog's name.

3. 
   steveodiy | Nov 11, 2003 06:34pm | #10

   "test of time"?

   Pex has been used for over 30 years in Europe.  It's only newer here because the old timers don't switch from something they know, copper.  The copper industry must think Pex is here to stay, they have been developing a crimping system for copper so you don't have to solder any joints.  This would compete with Pex for install speed and lower failure rate. 

   I wanted to put Pex in my home in Long Island NY.  The town inspector said if NY state says ok I could use it. State code permits its use so I did. He said it was the first install he has seen in a home in this town (pop. over 50,000).

3. 
   csnow | Nov 03, 2003 03:37am | #3

   PEX has many great qualities.  One issue under study is that it may support a 'biofilm' where copper will not.  Worth looking into.  Otherwise, a very durable product, with many years of real world 'burn in' in Europe.

1. 
   SledBC | Nov 03, 2003 08:56am | #4

   Since all the new subdivisions are using plastic water supply lines, what would be the difference in using plastic or copper lines within the home? I haven't noticed any plasticy taste with the pex lines in my home, but if the water sits in the lines overnight and you forget to run the tap for a while you don't get that awful taste you get with copper. To test, we filled a 12" long peice of 3/4" pex with water and absolutely no air, and capped both ends, put it in a freezer and it didn't burst or leak. (This was the expansion type pex (Wirsbo), not the crimp type). So far I've been quite impressed with it. If done right it looks quite good unlike poly B which IMO was always ugly.Darren

   http://www.LDHindustries.com