Hi all…….
I consider myself a beginner wood worker. I was wondering, if I was planning on getting into furniture making as a hobby (mostly arts & crafts, mission stuff), if I should get a plate joiner or not. I was planning on using it to create coffee table tops, etc. Or, should I just plan on using router bits to create better, stronger joining seams? Is there a noticeable difference in performance of the joints over time?
I would hate to waste the money on one or the other if they are not going to pay off.
Any help or advice would be appreciated!
Thanks a bunch!!!
Replies
For most edge applications, a router with a wing cutter can do the same job as a router; you can even make face cuts using a small straight bit (although they'll be a slot, not a moon-shaped cut) - it'll just take a lot longer to set up with a router.
Having made this point, and noting that I used the router option for many years in a shop setting; I finally broke down and bought a biscuit joiner (a PC 557) and I'm very happy with it.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Check out the Freud JS102 biscuit jointer,its a great tool at a great price...
I'd buy the Kreg Jig way before I'd buy a plate joiner. If you buy a plate joiner, don't buy the DeWalt like I did, it's not very good.
DRC
Depends on the application. If he plans to make up wider panels, like a table top, then the Kreg won't work. There's a couiple of other applications where the biscuit joiner is a better choice, but if you're talking about building face frames, then the Kreg is probably better.
True ELCID, no doubt. I guess I should have thought of that before I replied.
I have both tools, and find I use the Kreg more and more, the joiner less and less. We even used the Kreg to glue up a whole bunch of old-growth cvg fir to make a 42" wide door in three layers like what was described in a FHB article a while back. Came out great.
But certainly if you're working with materials of any size(thickness or width), that bisquit joiner is a handy tool.
So following that, if you're going to buy a bisquit joiner, buy a good one. The DeWalt has enough manufacturing slop that the cutter doesn't stay true to the fence and baseplate. Really annoying.
DRC
Okay, say I was to make a table top, what should I use? A plate joiner, or make a continuous joint with a router? I assume the router (with the correct bit) would make a stronger joint, because of the continuous 'interlocking' of the wood pieces. Am I wrong? Assuming the router is the better option for table top construction, what bit shape should be used?
Thanks again!
Okay, say I was to make a table top, what should I use? A plate joiner, or make a continuous joint with a router? I assume the router (with the correct bit) would make a stronger joint,
I don't think that you're focusing on the essential issue. Strength in tabletops is not much of a problem. A good edge joint, properly done with sharp tools, is usually as strong as the wood itself. I use biscuits to ensure that the pieces line up evenly in that application. They are much easier than setting up a router for a tongue and groove. I think buscuits mostly give you ease of use more than anything. A mortise and Tenon joint is much stronger - but buscuits are very quick and easy, and often times as strong as you need. Throwing together quick furniture for the kids is a great application. If I'm building the good stuff, traditional (and time consuming) joinery for legs and such, and flat panels go together with buscuits and glue.
BTW, most of the tool reviews have focused on the Porter Cable 557 and the Dewalt as the good machines to buy (If you're not independently weathly and can afford the Lamello machines). I have the PC, my father has the DeWalt, and I like both. What I wouldn't do is do what I originally did - buy a cheap Freud with a sloppy front fence that I had lots of work aligning properly. Buscuits are supposed to be fast and easy - if they aren't, then they aren't worth it.
If you're talking about edge gluing boards together to form a wider top, I don't see what advantage a mechanical fastener, like a biscuit does for you - maybe helps align the boards during glue up, but adding "strength"?
Seems like you'd be relying on the glue and if that's the case, seems like the more surface you have, the stronger the joint. Think of finger joints. Look through any router bit catalog and you'll find edge jointing profiles.
Just remember, wood moves. You can work WITH that, or against it, but it's still going to move.
Or make it a design feature...either rout a continuous groove with a three wing slot cutter, or run it through the table saw (the table saw will be more difficult because of having to balance the board on edge)...then use a continuous spline of same or contrasting wood, with the grain turned the appropriate direction, and let the ends of the spline show on the ends of the tabvle top.
Id go with splines for a large table top rather than biscuits, Id(have) use the freg for the apron to leg joint
At Darkworks Customer satisfaction Job One..Yea yea were all over it , I got my best guys on it.........
Edited 12/31/2002 11:55:06 AM ET by RonT
Go to Harbor Freight and buy their cheap deadblow mallet. Then, when gluing up tabletops, use the mallet to knock the boards flush with each other.
Properly prepared and glued, an edge joint is stronger than the wood. Improperly prepared, biscuits won't save you. Spend the money on a good long plane and clamps.
Tons of places to use a plate joiner....not discounting a kreg jig, which I use a lot too, but there are thngs a plate joiner can do that a Kreg can't. I couldn't be without one.
Disagree on the slams to the Dewalt; I've had two, and I think they are the best value out there. Have the old P-C in my school shop (absolute junk), and the new one; because the fence tilts both ways, it's nice to have....that's the only edge it has on the Dewalt. I thnk the Dewalt is more accurate....mine are.cabinetmaker/college instructor. Cape Breton, N.SWAY too conservative to be merely right wing
I have a comment on the DeWalt
I haven't had very good luck with alignment when I've used the fence; it seems it's fairly easy to get out by 1/32" or more.
I recently switched to laying the plate jointer flat on a board with other board next to it, and the results that I get are much better.
Ive used the kreg to glue up panels with. The only question is are the PH gonna be seen?
At Darkworks Customer satisfaction Job One..Yea yea were all over it , I got my best guys on it.........
I agree with Dave. Get the Kreg Jig and their screw starter set. It's pretty impressive. I have had a Freud biscuit joiner for several years (it does have its place) but am amazed at how little I use it compared to what I figured.
I bought the old style PC biscuit joiner, the one with the vertixcal motor and belt drive. Used it a couple of times early on, but not as much as I had planned when I justified the expense. Part of the problem may be the really poor fence. The current model has the dewalt style fence, and it has to be better.
I had trouble with accuracy with the Freud. I always thought it was because I don't use it enough, but there is slop in the blade bearing, and it is awkward to hold on target.
Try asking your question on the Knots side for a more "furniture" focused response.
What materials are you intending to use? What are you building? You mention "mostly arts & crafts, mission stuff". If it's reproductions, then forget it. Most of this kind of furniture has lots of through-tenons which is a look you can only get by cutting mortise and tenons. Glueing in a fake through-tenon just ain't cool.
In general, if you'll be using lots of sheet stock (plywood, etc) and building bookcases, entertainment centers and such then you may make good use of a bisquit joiner.
If you focused on using all hardwood or maybe even a mix of both and making chairs, tables and such then it's function is not a useful (although not useless). You may be better off acquiring skills making traditional joinery (mortise and tenons, etc.) as you gain experience.
I've seen folks using bisquits in places in all sorts of places that aren't appropriate like load bearing joints in chairs. I think some see it as a "fast" way to put stuff together and aren't focused enough on how the piece will be used throughout its life.
I use one but mostly on non-critical joints of casegoods or joints where stress at a key point isn't over the bisquit.
Good luck.
Seth
mistake. There is no win
and there is no fail . . . there is only
make."
John Cage
Edited 12/31/2002 9:09:44 AM ET by Seth Frankel
edge gluing is stonger than the wood itself when done corectly, true buscuits can help align misbehaved boards quickly when gluing up but arent nessicary. good furniture existed long befor biscuits and power tools. learnig how to do things the old fasioned way with hand tools and concentration is really nice (but slow). when you are first learning it gives you an understanding and relationship w/ the material that is harder to have whaen using powertools. spend the money on the machines later on get some good books at the library on woodworking and see what you can do w/out the joiner youd be surprised at how much more satisfying it can be to comlpete a peice that has your own hand cut joints comprared to slots/plates. but if you just wnat a good bis.joiner get the pc557 its good for the money and 30 day satisfaction garantee. good luck.
YOUBETCHYA,
I just remember where I probably made best use of my freud biscuit joiner. We were putting down 2 1/4 - 3/4 hardwood flooring and running a little short. The owner said how about using some of the smaller scraps and making a "herringbone" pattern by the back door.
We jigged it up outside on a piece of plywood and hooked the pieces together where necessary with biscuits. Then we used the straight edge to cut the edges of the pattern, labled and reassembled on the floor. We would stick the biscuits in then use a finish nailer angled as if the biscuit was a tongue.
Fonzie