please help! This is really important!
I posted here about my covered mahogany porch and it’s lack of slope. I’m still dealing with it, and the builder has basically said it’s not his problem. This is like the Twilight Zone, since E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G I’ve read says ANY solid floor needs a path for drainage, away from the house. The builder argues this and says there’s no such requirement or recommendation.
I’ve talked with the material supplier. The lumber manufacturer. The building inspector. The architects in the area. ALL have agreed it’s a “no brainer” when it comes to slope. It needs one, away from the house. NOBODY can/will provide this in writing.
I’ve searched libraries, BOCA books, internet sites. All that refer to it say it’s needed to prevent rot, moisture related problems, infestation of wood destroying insects, etc. The builder says it is NOT needed on a covered porch.
Please, I ask…ANYONE who can point me to any resource that clearly illustrates the magnitude of the problems created when a LARGE covered porch is allowed to retain standing water! The builder is threatening with a lien and I am refusing final payment. I just need something to show that NEVER is it allowable to have a perfectly level exterior solid floor surface with no clear direction for water to go. Covered or not, this is an exterior floor. It gets VERY wet.
If this is wrong, I am willing to live with the problems. I am afraid that the water will destroy the clapboard and house framing. I don’t want to be “picky” about forcing them to fix it if it’s not really NECESSARY, only desireable.
Anyone have any resources for this info???? Thanks to anyone/everyone in advance. I’m at wit’s end.
Replies
Back to the libary...
Architectural Graphic Standards (10th edition)
Start at page 352.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
IMERC,
You know, I looked at that book last night. NOTHING about floor slope. Handrail slope, post top slope, etc.
Until section 19, Historic entrances and Porches. Just a picture with an arrow and the words "sloped wood floor".
But that sure helps!
I remember seeing your pics. A sad story... if you were able to find it in the code book that is in force in your area I'd say you have it licked (you referred to BOCA). I personally, have never heard of any code that requires it (we don't, nor ever have used BOCA in my area). Even if you do find it in the code, I bet the local building inspectors will not back you up since I'm assuming they already sighed it off. This is a perfect example of where common sense should prevail (in addition to building codes). BTW - a lot of people don't understand that building codes are only a minimal guideline - and a lot more is required to build a good house... Anyway, personally, I get sick and tired of the builder bashing that goes on here at this forum, but in this case it is warranted. The guy just doesn't want to fix it because of the expense. (I'm assuming he did the entire install) I think you should stand firm. For now, who cares about a lien, as long as you are planning on staying in the home and it is not preventing you from getting your mortgage. (re-financing may be another matter). You may have to work this out in court. Probably the worst that can happen is that you will be forced to pay the guy. You may want to check to see if you would be required to pay his attorneys' fees though... and also check what your attorney fees will be if you do go to court. Since I don't know what kind of money you are talking about, I don't know if it would be small claims court or not (if they have that where you live).
I was wondering what builder bashing you noticed. I'm here quite a bit and don't notice anything untoward. There is criticism made on several fronts, HO, DIY, Poor builders, etc, but it is always criticism of poor workmanship and lack of standards or quality - not builders in general. If a builder chooses to put himself in the subgroup of those who display rotten workmanship and dissatisfied customers, that is their right.
If a raindrop chooses to fall to the ground along with several of his buddies, they shouldn't be upset if someone points out that it is raining..
Excellence is its own reward!
I don't have any specific examples, nor have I book marked any (didn't find those conversations interenting). I'll E-mail you some examples when I run across them. I'm not saying it's a constant thing, but it does occur, and by builder bashing, I didn't mean it in a general sense, more the type of situation where someone buys a low end house and wants to know why the hardwood floor didn't get 4 coats of finish... That kind of thing. Sometimes I think always wanting to do things right is a liability of mine, but people have to be willing to pay for that too. If someone wants me to build a deck, and they say they are trying to save money, I bid it that way and that is what they get: Even though every cut is pretty close to pefect, I don't screw down the deck boards... I nail them and charge accordingly and let them know up front too.Matt
OK, I think I get the sense of what you meant. Sometimes one person reads a thing differntly than another. I didn't mean to sound like challenging you too specifically..
Excellence is its own reward!
Pitching the deck will not guarantee that water will just roll off. What about leaves, ice and snow. In my opinion you should have left a gap between your boards. I'm suprised the floor hasn't buckled yet.
Hammer,
Why would one leave a gap between T&G???????????????????
Curious minds wanna know
My bad! Just remembered why I didn't respond to the first post. It was t&g. Still I don't think that little high roof constitutes a covered deck/porch. Therefore I would have treated it as a deck with square edge and a gap, laying perpendicular to the joists. I've repaired many old fir t&g porches and they all had that familiar wavy surface and water damage pitched or not. Most had pitched themselves that's why they called me. Granddad oil based his every year, not many have his dedication today. My exterior experience with open grain tropicals is that they like to move so I don't try to stop it. That won't help this guy now though.
I'm afraid that what I found won't give you any real ammo to use because I don't think you're going to have any success pointing out the obvious to someone who obviously doesn't care.
I think you're going to need something code enforceable to get satisfaction from this builder. Bummer.
Anyway, here it is. See "considerations" at the bottom of the page.
http://www.southernpine.com/flooringguide10.htm
OMG! Thank you! That's VERY helpful!
Now, off to the "liberry" for that book reference...(thanks IMERC)
It may not be a code requirement, but is certainly is a "standard of practice". That has specific legal meaning. Ask your attorney, and you certainly need one. Just like there's nothing that says every window can't be at a completely different height. If it's not marked on the plans, but the builder puts every window at a random height, that's actionable. It would look terrible. The standard of practice is the tops should line up with the top of the doors, barring special circumstances. The standard of practice is that any porch or deck gets sloped outward unless it is fully enclosed by glass; i.e. a sunroom. Even an amateur backyard builder knows this. It is not reasonable that a professional would make this sort of error. Find one single reference that actually recommends installing a porch floor with no slope or backwards slope. I doubt you can.
The problem is actually finding the wording you need to document your case and complaint. Here's a shot at it, Architectural Graphic Standards, 10th Edition, Page 156, Unit Pavers and Paver Assembly Types, General note #4, Plan for surface and subsurface drainage. Slope paving away from buildings, retaining walls, etc. at 1/8" to 1/4" / ft. Very hard to find, but one example. Two, the http://www.ADAAG.com accessiblity, this is a stretch, but any ramps needed for a level change in a means of egress 4.8.6 Cross Slope and Surfaces. The cross slope of ramp surfaces shall be no greater than 1:50. Ramp surfaces shall comply with 4.5. This only says that no surface should be completely flat.
"Water is the bain of the architect." I really hope this helps and maybe one of these times you will get thru to the contractor. Ask him why a flat roof isn't flat but has a 1/4" slope, why your basement/garage floor is sloped to a drain, why parapet caps are not completely flat, the water has to go somewhere. You could photograph other homes in your area, older porches will leave a space under the railing or infill for drainage, and usually you can tell the slope with the naked eye. Its sounds like you will be thorough, good luck.
Dan
Edited 11/19/2003 5:31:12 PM ET by dpsSRD
If I remember correctly from your previous post about having standing water that remains on the porch floor, I would say your more immediate threat is not the rot that might set in but the lawsuit against you when the puddle freezes and someone does a Tom and Jerry cartoon exit off the thing. Actually it doesn't even need to be frozen as some smooth soled shoes will allow a good imitation of water skiing on a fairly thin layer of moisture. Seems to me it could almost be a defective product liability type of thing...
What was specified on the plans?
Try the new JLC Field Guide (Hanley-Wood). While I do not see any specific references to wood porch floors, there is a section on exterior wood trim. P310 "Design Principles of Exterior Woodwork" Says "Exterior joints should be designed to shed water....Trapped water will cause excessive wood movement, splintering, and eventually will invite rot, bugs, and fungal infestations". P312 "Railings, thresholds and other flat surfaces can be made to shed water by bowing or sloping top surfaces..."
Note the implication that a surface commonly referred-to as "flat", does not mean it must be dead-level, under commonly-recognized industry terms.
Besides that, as everyone else here has essentially implied, EVERY professional builder knows that all exterior work, especially wood work, should be done in such a way to deal with the potentially-destructive reality of rainwater (including wind-driven rain, as in, under cover of a roof). Anyone that's ever done a single wood porch floor is aware of their moisture-sensitive nature, and constructs accordingly (including slope to drain).
Want something in writing? Print out these responses you've gotten from interested industry professionals and offer as evidence. If your version of the story is correct and complete, your builder is a disgrace to our profession.
Mason
I found 3 magazine articles that make statements about the slope of covered porch floors. I have e-copies, but can't mail them to you because the e-mail facility here at Breaktime does not support attaching files. If you send me an E-mail, I will E-mail you back with the articles.
FWIW, here's another similar to the first link. Last paragraph here.
http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/decks/oldporch/framing/joists.htm
Fact of the matter is that any competent carpenter knows the need for the slope. Sounds like yours may be more belligerant than competent.
References to this common sense practice abound in construction books. Perhaps you should ask him to show you just one reference proclaiming that there is no need of slope on your floor.
I still fear that satisfaction won't be coming forthwith. Sometimes the law protects the guilty and prevents you from holding their feet to the fire.
Perhaps the nearest thing to satisfaction you'll get out of this is to insure him that you'll be giving many free references concerning his talents.
Edit: Okay, I'm back with more for you. Two articles from Fine Homebuilding. 1993 April/May issue of Fine Homebuilding - Porches That Won't Rot and 1992 July issue - Renovating Old Porches
Both clearly state the need for floor slope.
If you don't have these or can't get ahold of them easily, send me an e-mail and I'll send you copies.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 11/19/2003 9:44:44 PM ET by GOLDHILLER
Audel Carpenters and Builders Library No.3 Layout foundations Framing, Chapter 5 ,page 102 , Porches ,under porch joist" Inorder that rain water may run off freely , the porch should slope approximately 1/8-inch per foot away from the wall of the building. since there is no subfloor , this require the flooring to run in the direction of the slope (at right angles to the wall) . Otherwise , water will stand on the floor wherever there are slight irregularities."
Don,
Thanks! I know the Audel's books are old, and I have many of them myself (why didn't I think to look at them?) I don't expect to find these in the library ( I tore the local one apart last night)
If you have access, I'D IMMENSELY appreciate a fax or Emailed copy of the relevant pages, if you could/would oblige. It sounds like the silver bullet I'm looking for.
[email protected] is my Email
Thanks,
Damon
Let me start by saying that I have never built a covered porch except with pressure treated decking that did not have a slope. I am sure that I did this for the time-tested reason that it's always done this way to help water drain off the flooring.
On the other hand I cannot think of a single instance when I have ever seen water actually draining off the floor. It usually just sits in big drops trying to soak through the layers of paint. It eventually succeeds, the paint blisters and at the outside edges the floor needs to be repainted. All this on floors with a pitch.
I have no problem with your withholding of the final payment until you are satisfied but you probably could live with this as long as water is not actually flowing toward the house.
Time saver standards
for Building Materials and Systems
under floors it does not specifically adress slope for drainage.
Page B3.1-6
lists moisture as one of four primary design criteria
Page B3.1-13
discusses this in greater detail, listing the elements as one of many potential sources of moisture and stating that wood must be protected from moisture.
All roof refs I have ever seen always name a min pitch of 1/8" and a recomended 1/4" per foot so if this is in any way a roof designed to shed water from storage below, there is a ton of specs on that, but I am not finding that they deliniate so for floors
Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin,
Are you trying to say that the floor structure, despite it's own smallish roof but no walls is lacking adequate protection from rain above,and would therefore be actually considered a roof for the Earth below as primary foundation drainage?
Interesting...........I like how you think!
I ask what the plans indicated be/c I'd be curious to know if the builder was following faulty plans to the T, failed to follow proper plans, or was winging it with either no plans or ambiguous plans. Seems like that could affect how this is view by any impartial observer.
we run into this all the time... T&G decking on covered porches is supposed to pitch away from the house....
AND... this fact should be conveyed in the Construction Drawings..if it ISN"T, then shame on the designer....
who did the design ?
here's one .. a large Condo... 6 units... neither the 1st floor deck, nor the 2d floor deck has the required pitch.... not a problem with the first floor deck over the walk-out... but definitely leaking from the 2d floor deck into the ceilings of the 1st floor units..
this deck was supposed to pitch 2" in about 8'.. clearly labeled on the Const. Drwgs.
naturally... the condo owners are still arguing about the correct fix... Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
The builder furnished the design and drawings.
Well, at least you'll avoid any finger-pointing between designer and builder...
time to have your lawyer write a nice letter to your contractor....
the fix is basically.... shore the roof structure.... and drop the outside deck support...
and then adjust everything in between..
the T&G has to pitch away from the house... once the water starts flowing to the outside, then you have to have a plan for it's ultimate destination..
someone above mentioned "suitability of purpose" or somesuch... this is a classic case..
IF the contractor designed the structure AND wrote the contract, then the burden is on himMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Builder's own plans, and indicated nothing as to dimensions or slope. The drawings basically showed an elevation view overall, and a footing detail. Nothing was indicated either way, and the town approved the plan.
why didn't you tell your builder that you wanted a covered -roof/porch? even if you get him to come back and put in some slope its not going to make it maintenance free
Teco,
I did. I told the builder I wanted a covered porch, and got one. But, the covering of a porch apparently doesn't mean it's watertight. Since water will get to it, it needs to be "told" where to go. More research has shown me that this floor, being solid, is basically regulated as a roof, responsible from diverting water from reaching the ground below, and diverting it away from the structure. Since no access is possible below the porch structure and no drainage provisions exist beneath, it must be handled by the porch floor, acting as roofing.
What I have now is a floor that doesn't direct anything. That's a world of difference from maintenance free. I fully understand the maintenance of leaves, snow, and the very real probability of water damage to the flooring from mere exposure./ The problem is the issue of STANDING water, and the roofing above shelters sunlight from ever drying things out. The result of this is water FLOWING towards the home, and running down the siding. When the flow stops, the result is standing puddles that freeze, never drying out.
A slope can correct the standing water issues, and any rain that reaches the house during a driving horizontal rain will still create moisture problems. But that's much different than soaked flooring for days on end, no sunlight, and soaked soil below with no drainage provision.
That will destroy the entire house.
I thiunk that what I was doing is asking you whether or not it could be considered a roof in its design to make roof specs apply for finding written specs.
Most of the jobs I do have at least one of the porches as a covering over something else. Let's see;
A game Room
A Garden tools shed
A Propane tank farm with garbage cans( two of these - ventilated of course)
A Sitting area in the shade
A chamber for hiding the air conditioner unit
A brick patio
A storage room to pile the lawn furniture during the winter.
none of these need to have a 100% waterproof roof and some of these decks have, like yours, a roof over the deck. But they all have a minimum slope of 1/8" to the foot, with decking running perpendicular to the house
So I was curious if there was something similar under yours.
Here is another thought for a solutuion for you.
A year or so ago, I went to check out a water problem at a house with deck around back. ( there is a long story connected to this, but it isn't important in this connection)
The deck fit into an inside corner of the house where the door was located. I had re-roofed this house a few years prior and installed a nice fancy gutter system.
The owners hired another outfit to build the deck and here is what they got; The deck actually sloped towards the house so that there was an inch of water standing next to it. Around here, it is standard to leave a porch about four inches or so lower than the thresholdbecause of snow and water. This deck was built so it was on the same plane as the interior finished floor. It was 1x4 T&G and painted so it held water pretty well. There was plenty of water because the wife had decided that she didn't like the gutters and had them removed.
All that meant that when the water was standing an inch deep outside the door, you didn't want to be walking around in anything other than good waterproof boots inside. I'm sure that the sills were suffering too.
My best and first solution for the poor guy who owned it was to rebuild the deck and do it right. After all the hoops this guy had jumped through to try to satify his wife, he would have burned the whole place down before he was going to let me do that.
So I bought a large floor grille duct cover from Reggio register and cut and dadoed it into the deck right outside the door, and epoxyed it in. The grile was aluminum and the deck was painted grey so it worked out great. They had a foot/mud wipe and water drain.
Then I used polyurethene caulk at the base flashing for other water that might be trying to find it's way to the sills and gave him a standard tail light warrantee. It's still not right but it's 100% better at less cost than anything else I could have done..
Excellence is its own reward!
They make long grills out of mahogony or teak and you could inlay them. But if it were me I would have an architect design a wall system that was water proof and sharp and use the porch year round.
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Piffin,
The porch is actually on the first floor, and is just above grade. Due to the landscape and house elevation, however, the soil will need backfilling up to the porch itself. The reason for this is that the porch has no railings, it's ENTIRELY wrapped with steps (2). So,what this means is that the soil must be raised almost TWO FEET in some areas to reach the first step riser but it cannot be placed in the crawl space created by the porch structure. The result is a HUGE basin, and nowhere for the water to go. Additionally, no access to the crawl space will exist once soil is brought to the stair riser, and the entire porch understructure and framing will then have NO VENTILATION. In other words, it'll be sealed off entirely from light and air, but not water, due to no soil slope.
As I now see it, the decking MUST be removed, the soil beneath backfilled and graded to promote drainage away from the foundation, and ventilation provided by means of some openings allowing air ingress to the underside of the porch floor. Since the soil will be about 2 feet from the underside of the floor once this is done, there should also be some access to the underside for maintenance.
Also, the porch roof has no ventilation either. Oops? It's entirely boxed in.
I figure I can pull the decking, backfill, maybe add a perforated pipe along the foundation wall, and slope the soil. Then, Create a doorway to the underside by hinging the steps at the rear wraparound, or removing them entirely and adding a rail there, with a ventilated vertical wall. If not, I suppose I can ventilate the risers with holes or grilles of some sort, if I can figure out how to do without allowing animals in. Then, some slope built into the floor framing, and the flooring installed. The roof can be soffit vented and allowed to exit through the point where it meets the house siding. I think there's a product that allows this, I forget.
Does this seem logical? In light of this, the porch floor as it stands MUST be a roof, since it's GOT to prevent ANY water from entering the area below...
Edited 11/21/2003 7:54:15 AM ET by DoctorD
no... it doesn't have to be a roof... the amount of water just has to be reasonably controlled.. either let it leak in, collect it and drain it out.. or repitch the floor and drain it to the exterior...
ventilation will do ALMOST nothing for you.. a 6 mil poly vapor barrier would be more effective
access could also be gained by sawcutting thru the foundation and putting an access door there.. then you don't have to redesign your exterior steps/ grade.
if you have ponding.. a nicely patterned series of 3/4" holes could be drilled thru your t&g.. witha collection system drained to daylight below.
lots of ways to skin this catMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I wouldnt try to play the word game in court. The decision will generally be made on what is standard and acceptable building practices and is open to interpretation. You would likely be better off settling with the builder for a portion of what is owed and get someone else to do the repairs. The drainage problem under the porch should have been addressed before the porch was built anyway, and will have to be addressed eventually no matter what you do. Enclose the porch or drain it as Mike Smith advises. Chances are you will break even at best in court.
You don't need venting in the porch roof. There is no pressure putting moisture into that space so no need to vent it out again. Vents there are more likely to create problems by allowing humid air in to condense.
If you are creating a pool under the deck, be sure to add drainage pipe or buy a good book one the care, feeding, and training of mosquitoes.
I do think that regardless of whether it is you or the builder who pays, you should have sloped deck to allow drainage. Earlier suggestion was the el cheapo solution if you are stuck with it and no money left. But a grill could be a good thing if left removeable for access if you think you need it..
Excellence is its own reward!
But a grill could be a good thing if left removeable for access if you think you need it.
. For what it's worth I don't do T&G decks unless it is small enough to allow for a slope to work and the boards are right angle to house.
A LARGE T&G mahogany deck with access to water is a potential problem for puddling even with a slope IMO.
Piffin's grill makes sense and guarantees the water will get off the deck. Make it removable and put a french drain under it to direct the water away from the house.
You will probably have a hell of a time getting the contractor to tear up the whole deck, but a reasonable guy would do the grill and french drain fix. There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
RE venting etc under porches that have no living space below, I will tell you the way we do it in NC...
Per our code (International 2002 code - modified for NC): an open porch must either be vented underneath and have access to the space below the floor or be filled solid (masonry floor) with no access or vents. If the porch is open underneath, and is not surrounded by foundation walls, (ie: wood floor) the soil must be graded to promote water to run away from the house: 6" in the first 10'.
If it is vented, the access is either via an access door/panel that can be opened without tools, or via the house's crawl space.
If you want no railings, this is OK, just so the porch walking surface is less than 30" above grade, however, if there are more than 3 risers on your steps, you need stair railings.
end code section----------------------
So, for the most part, in keeping with NC building code, there is 3 ways we build porches (no living space below):
1) Wooden floor (either spaced boards or T&G), which is vented and has access. The soil must be graded away from the house as noted above. See pic porch1 and porch1-1 below. There are ways to vent the step risers, which, personally, I think looks good, as shown in one of the pics.
2) Masonry floor supported by a steel pan, etc, as necessary. Vented and has access. Drainage grading is not necessary since this is either a separate crawl space, or part of the main house's crawl space. See pic porch2.
3) Solid masonry porch which is filled with gravel, etc. See pic porch3. This one has the railing-less look.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not per code, but any porch is traditionally sloped away from the house, especially if it is t&g or solid masonry. Perimeter drains around the house's foundation are not required, but any contractor who doesn't like callbacks puts them in.Matt
Doctor D I was sleeping better because I thought you had come up w/ some resolution - barnyard animals on the porch etc - and therefore enclosing your porch. I remember looking at your first pictures thinking that first step was awfully high and now you are talking of having to berm to your bottom step resulting in potential damming of drainage from your porch. My judgement would be that is as bad or worse than your hired hand having put your porch flooring on the level. Unless you get a road grader to the edge of that bottom tread for compaction you will forever have problems with that bottom earth step eroding away. I could well be missing something but is there any reason step stringers were not extended down to grade so that your highest riser would be 6 - 8" and if grade dictated the riser may be 2" ( where ground is higher ).
No matter what you do w/ the porch keep the ground sloped away from the house
you happen to have a big bank of airline miles tickets for about 15 of us respondents and some per diem and we could get you back in business in a day w/ time to put our feet up on that porch
I don't remember the depth of that porch but I'm starting to think you could try one more sole plate under that house - lift the whole kit & cabootle 1 1/2" ?
We prayin for you and wethead
"is there any reason step stringers were not extended down to grade "
I think he wants the railing-less look. It makes a porch feel much different... open.
Matt
Doctor,
I have a t&g fir floor on my own house. I pitched it away from the house at first but on a 6' wide porch there I couldn't pitch it much before it became very noticeable. Nerveless I did give it a slight pitch. Well, guess what....every time it rains water still puddles up on the porch. I have an old mop I saved and I go out and wipe the puddles off. If it's damp that's fine but I don't want puddles of water sitting on it for days.
To get the water to totally shed off, the pitch would have to be ridiculous. It's just something I have to live with. A slight pitch is good so that water doesn't accumulate right next to the house but I don't really think you can pitch it enough to get ALL the water off.
The same goes for decks, I don't bother pitching them at all. It never really made any sense to me. If a rain drop lands on the center of a piece of 5/4 decking, does it really matter if it rolls 2 1/2" away from the house before it falls to the ground, or 2 1/2" towards the house?
I don't understand! I cut it twice and it's still too short!
Your approach to this is fine if cosmetics is more important to you than maintainance costs, long term. Have you stopped to think what the cosmetics will be though when it starts to rot out where that water puddles?.
Excellence is its own reward!
Pif,
I was thinking of long term maintenance. I did pitch it away, but to get water to totally shed off,the pitch would have to be far to steep for foot traffic. I don't get an ocean out there, but there are a few spots where I still get puddles, regardless of the pitch. However on non t&g floors, (5/4 decking for example) I don't really see the point in pitching at all.I don't understand! I cut it twice and it's still too short!
man..... an 8' deck with 1/4" pitch will have 2" of pitch... if the decking is painted, the waterwill run and not puddleMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
even on spaced deck boards, with 1/4" pitch surface tension will carry water away. 90% will run out following the deck boards. I am quite comfortable working under such a deck on a rainy day..
Excellence is its own reward!
hay maybe this builder is planning onperferating the ply by drilling 1/8inch holes, instead of the 2 degree slope.Or maybe he dosent know what he is doing, and you may want to have a closer look at the rest of his work.