going to bite the bullet and buy a good laser – I have a few questions and know that the PLS guys lurk here.
Is it just me or is the PLS website http://www.plslaser.com/appfs.htm terribly out of date? (update: just called them; you need to go to http://plslaser.com ONLY since their old stuff is on their server but not deleted. If you start at the home page you get the right content)
It looks like the kit with the PLS180 and sensor costs $350 on average. The pls360e is $440. Precision : 180 is +/-1/8″ @ 30 ft ; 360e is +/-1/8″ @ 100ft. So you get twice the precision and 360 degree line and lose the verticle line and pocket size. Same sensor for both. Neither has a spinning laser, they are fixed line.
Making it harder, the new HVR is a spinning laser that can do both verticle and horizontal (but not simultaneously) and is $500 for a comparable kit (laser, remote, sensor, case). Same precision as the 360 (+/-1/8″ @ 100ft) but 500′ range. Add another $130 and you get a grade rod and tripod.
So that are the choices. What do you guys think? I do remodel part time (kitchen/bath mostly) and am about to obliterate my 1/2 acre lot and re-landscape with retaining walls / water feature / expanded drive so I am OK buying a decent laser and really could have used one on the last job.
So what would you do? Start small and then see if it will do what I need or spend 2x out of the gate and don’t look back? I do place a premium on my time being a one man show, so if I can save 5 hours a month with a better / larger laser then it pays for itself in no time.
Replies
The PLS90 is by far the most versatile one you can get, IMHO. It will take you, as they say in their ads, from foundation to finish.
That's a wrap. Now, what kind of laser measuring tool will you get?
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
I have the 360, 90, and 5x. The 90 is my least used of the three. When it is used it is invaluable, but the 360 and the 5x are in very regular use. IMO you need the wraparound level reference of the 360 and you need the plumb-bob action of the 5x (or 3 if you prefer).
The 5x is the first one I got, and while the 360 somewhat duplicates the level feature, it has a detector and is one-man operation, so I think both are vital.
The 90 would be almost useless to a guy doing sitework and grading. Why would you recommend that? It isn't a level.
Edited 9/12/2008 2:06 pm by davidmeiland
Brad,
I'm a remodeler, doing many different things in addition to kitchens and baths. There's two tools that make a BIG difference in how I perform my tasks. One is the Fein Multimaster and the other is my laser from PLS.
I got the PLS2 several yrs ago and was more than pleased with it's operation. It and the company that stands behind it were 1st rate. When the 180 came about I saw the benefit of the expanded lines and the remote for ext. use. Again, happy as a clam with the way it eases the job. For the jobs I do it has done all that was asked-from drop ceilings to cab layout/tile layout to just the common information guide (plumb/level.......or not) when I go look at a job.
One thing it doesn't do, but you can work around it, is throw a dot straight up/out or sq. to the side. A great tool to have for something like can layout (miss the joists and perfect centering over task areas). Well, as luck would have it I won a dot laser at the Peachfest in Indiana this past August.
So, now I'm happy as a clam.
Best of luck in your decision.
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
So which was more fun to win...
that dot laser...
or the buck from beating Mike Smith at golf.
I was so excited to be playing with the guy that the buck certainly didn't have the same effect as it might have.
And that dot was used this a.m.
B/4 I gook off to join a past and current customer for a round at The Toledo Countryclub.
Beautiful day, wonderful course.
A-1 shape even tho we just now had our first rain in over 6 wks.
Did decent. Beat the previous customer, came close to the current one.
Of course, final billing still needs done.
One thing I can't understand Bob. Why did that guy try to steal my clubs as soon as I took them out of my trunk?A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Calvin-
That's why you need to keep one club in your hand at all times- to beat off those pesky attendants.
A golf friend won a raffle to play the Donald Trump course here in NJ. When he got there, he started to change his shoes in the parking lot, like any normal golfer would. But he was told that "they" didn't do that there, and was assigend a locker for the day for his shoes.
He also was wearing cargo shorts, and was asked to change them. Lucky for him, he had another pair of shorts in his car; unlucky for him, the valet had already parked his car.
He eventually got the other shorts, and got to play. He said its a beautiful course.
You mean that guy that tried to swipe my clubs worked there?
Damn, didn't mean to bloody up that nice looking shirt.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Hey Brad,
Buy a used laser on ebay. I did and they have some very good deals. Look at the sellers feedback and also at the completed auctions to see what lasers are selling for. I'm a firm believer in buying used tools if you know what to look for. If the laser needs calibration the cost is about $50 in my area.
Brad,
I purchased a Northwest NEXPK200G about 6 years ago and I can't say enough good things about it.
http://www.engineersupply.com/northwest-instrument-self-leveling-rotary-laser-package-nexpk200g-item-90205.aspx
http://www.josephfusco.org
http://www.constructionforumsonline.com
Edited 9/12/2008 4:12 pm ET by Joe
What lasers to buy? In what order? Etc. Those are the most common questions it seems like.
We have been using the Stabila http://stabila.com/img/catalog/lg_typela2pl-laserboblevelkit.jpg because we use the laser plumb bob fuction the most out of any lasers. We plumb nearly every wall with a laser. Then the line function works great indoors for setting windows, checking levels etc.
We use the PLS 90 for squaring and it is just a great tool for that function, especially on multi-level foundations etc. It works great.
We use a rotary laser for shooting level outside (w/detetor) that we bought quite awhile ago.
A new laser that looks promising is this one http://www.cstberger.com/Products/LaserMark/LM_XLP34.htm What I want in a laser is to shoot level, plumb and generate at least one line, horizontal at minimum.
Hope that helps.
The Berger looks like the cat's ####! Any idea of the pricing on that?[email protected]
No idea.
It didn't appear to have a plumb up beam, just down. I couldn't use it....
edit: scratch that, apparently it does. It isn't shown as a red line on the picture but the specs describe it.
Edited 9/13/2008 10:33 am by davidmeiland
It's $310 here: http://www.toolbarn.com/product/cstberger/58-XLP34/'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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Thanks..........I see a new tool in my future![email protected]
you plumb every wall with a laser ?
are you serious ?
i knew you were meticulous.
do you do this because you have found that it is faster than an 8' level ?
how do you perform this operation ?
most lasers are nearly invisible on sunny days.
carpenter in transition
A laser plumbbob is great because you can see it on sunny days, and it can turn a lot of bracing into a one man job. You eliminate the guy holding the level.
Here are a couple of pictures of the first laser, PLS 5, that we started to use for this. It ulitmately died. The Stabila seems to be a lot more durable.
http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/12448759/214000123.jpg
Turns out that is the only picture I can find. Here is one though of using the laser to plumb a ridge beam into place
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From BerniesIf you zoom in you can see the dot. That was about 16' high off the floor. We had the post back from the gable wall so we could fill the wall in after the roof was framed.
I have the Pls 180 & the 5x as well as the spinning one. Use the 180 most of the time. The 5x second most often & the spinning one almost never (should probably sell it). Bought the sensors for each but never use them, I work indoors so it is not nessary. Customer service for PLS is extremely good.
From a hard-core remodel pro...
Have gotten by with a PLS3 for years...(plumb up/down + level)
amazingly bright and tight dot up to 30ft.
Most only need/use level up to about 30+ft
and plumb up to 10+ feet.
If you really want the square feature,
your construction calculator will be far
more accurate over longer distances
using the rise/run features
to calculate the diagonal...the math
never lies.
-CRF
i don't think the PLS site is out of date so much as dated looking.
i noticed the other day that the PLS1 measuring laser is no longer listed on the site. i assume this tool (which i have) is no longer available.
we use the 360e and the 5x. love them both.
i like the fact that the 360 has no moving (read that rotating) parts. the mirror does hang and swing which i guess makes it somewhat susceptible to damage by numskulls.
if i had to choose between the 360 or the 500 based on the prices you listed, i would get the 500. the fact that you can turn it vertically is quite valuable.
but based on the type of work that you do, i would probably recommend the new PLS 180 Palm Laser listed in their New Products tab on the website. it does it all.
carpenter in transition
Edited 9/13/2008 10:42 am ET by timkline
We use the pls180 all the time. I have two. I pay $259. w/o senser at Grabber. I don't think a senser would be needed for a remodeler.
The pls180 is not really a wall plumbing laser, unless you can set it up right on the line accurately and not disturb it. A dot laser is more usefull for plumbing walls.
For long distance and ouside accuracy we use Hilti spinners, with their detecter you can "catch" lines and move them to establish colmn lines on large commercial projects.
I have been using lasers since the '70 for framing, as a union drywaller.
Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
Whats the over all best LL that also works BEST for tile work?
Would it be the CST/berger XLP-34 that Tim was talking about?
The cost is just over $300
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
http://www.ramdass.org
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muhvpNuVN4Y
Edited 9/13/2008 1:42 pm ET by andybuildz
Wow, that CST/berger 58-XLP34PKG at $412 (tool barn) really looks nice - precision of +/- 1/8"@100', plumb dot for reference point, and sensor looks great and compares, package wise, with the PLS kits. Basically the layout likes of the PLS180 with the precision of the PLS360 and a plumb down point looks awesome. We may have a winner here folks.
http://www.toolbarn.com/product/cstberger/58-XLP34PKG/
I've a Johnson 40-6660 that other than being a bit heavy (it doesn't work well on the CST laser pole), has been fantastic. It does two vertical lines, a horizontal line, and a drop point. Turn both verts on and you get a ceiling cross hair. I picked it up new on ebay with the detector, two batteries, and carry case for <$200. It has survived several falls, the optics lock if it tilts past a certain angle, and one fall was from 9ft onto a wood floor. My heart stopped for a second when I saw it falling, but it survived and was still level. I now have a leash on it that I fix to a ceiling beam anytime I've got it up that high. Batteries last at least 12 hours on a charge, I know I've gotten at least 15-18 hours some times. FWIW, as it's been discontinued.Z
Is that Johnson the same as this one? View Image We've been "borrowing" it for almost 2 years and our finish guy uses it. He loves it. We did a little exterior work with it and the detector is very sensitive. I'm not sure I'd want it for framing, but for finish, it seems nice, especially because you can plug it into a cord and not waste batteries.
yup, that's it. Out of curiousity, why wouldn't you use it for framing? That's what I've been using it for and it's invaluable when you've not got a single level, plumb or sqaure existing surface to work off of.Z
The functions that we use the most often are level line and plumb dot. It doesn't have a plumb dot, and its a little expensive (at least it was last time I checked, but I could be wrong).
But to be honest, I haven't used it much for framing.
Maybe you've a different model with the same style case, but mine has a plumb dot, and if you fire up both verticals, you'll get a corresponding crosshair on the ceiling. At the time I bought it was one of the only that I could find that had a plumb dot, 2 verts and a horizontal line. Z
I'll have to look at it again. Thanks.
OK, bit the bullet earlier this summer and bought the PLS HVR 505R kit with the tripod, sensor, and pole. Did mostly outdoor projects this summer (retaining walls, front porch, etc) and I LOVE this thing. I still may buy the PLS5 for layout (a perfect 90 is indespensible) but with the sensor I was able to really rock through some of the more tedious work and keep the projects on track. I'd like a second sensor to do the dual-slop thing on one lot ... maybe another day. Simple, well thought out tool.