Replies

1. 
   dIrishInMe | Sep 02, 2003 11:47pm | #1

   I doubt there is any building code requirements for plumb and level. (but only knowing codes for one state, I can't say for sure for your locality).

   It is important for everyone to understand what the purpose of building codes are.  Basically, to insure homeowners and other customers get buildings that are safe, reasonably efficeint (energy usage) and reasonably weatherproof - and will remain so for a reasonably amount of time.  Building codes are a set of minimums, and are just a baseline.

   Craftsmanship, pride of workmanship, etc, don't fit into the equation.  In other words, the building inspector doesn't care if every wall is out of plumb, every board is cut out of square, every wall has wavy drywall, every window is set 1/2" out of level.  That is not his job - and it's not his business.  His job is to see that the house doesn't fall down, and that it won't rot off it's foundation in 2 years and that you won't have a $600/month electric bill every month of the year.

   I believe that NHBA (National Homebuilders Association) does publish guidelines for plumb, level, etc, but these are only guidelines.

   Matt

   
   

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   Edited 9/2/2003 4:48:52 PM ET by DIRISHINME

1. 
   EdV | Sep 09, 2003 09:29pm | #8

   Thank you for your reply to my query on plumb and level.

   Ed V.

2. 
   BobKovacs | Sep 03, 2003 12:04am | #2

   Eddy-

   As already stated, the building codes don't have requirements for plumb and level- they're just concerned with whether the building will stay standing (which I guess it won't if it's too far out of plumb and level...).  NAHB does publish "Residential Performance Guidelines", but they're extremely loose- something like 1/4" in 32", which would allow an 8' wall to be out of plumb about 3/4".  Personally, if that's the best you can do, you don't belong in this business, yet alone at "Fine Homebuilding". 

   The NAHB specs seem to be a CYA effort so builders can be "a little off" with plumb and level but still show the customer that they're "better than the industry standard".  After all, nothing's perfect, right???

   Bob

1. 
   EdV | Sep 09, 2003 09:37pm | #9

   WOW!

   1/4" in 32" thats not good. I guess thats why so many bad contractors are still in business.

   Thanks

   Ed V.

3. 
   fredsmart48 | Sep 03, 2003 02:02am | #3

   Let me guess the contract you sign in the building standards section says some thing to the effect. The building will be built to workman like standard or built to (state, local, national, companies) building standards.

   Now you are not happy.  Did you have YOUR attorney look at the contract before you signed before you signed it? 

   
   

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   Edited 9/2/2003 7:23:04 PM ET by fredsmart

1. 
   EdV | Sep 09, 2003 09:44pm | #10

   No, I'm a carpenter that can not believe what some contractors get away with.

   I no longer work for the company that allows it's framing to be 1" out of plumb in 8'.

   Thank you for your reply.

   Ed V.

4. 
   Framer | Sep 03, 2003 03:09am | #4

   Eddy,

   Are you really asking what the Plumb and Level Tolerances are? In other words, how much can you get away with the Framing being out of Plumb and Level?

   Did your Framer make a BOO BOO? Or did you Frame it and you make a BOO BOO?

   Joe Carola

1. 
   EdV | Sep 09, 2003 09:47pm | #11

   No, my former employer builds to a standard that I can't tolerate.

   Thanks

   Ed V.

5. 
   Piffin | Sep 03, 2003 07:01am | #5

   There are no real enforceable standards beyond what is enforceable between the owner and the builder.

   But for a practical answer, it would be good to know what the question is. In other words, why are you asking and hoiw would you employ the information. Are you a high school student writing a report, a DIY, a framer, or __________????????

   .

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   EdV | Sep 09, 2003 09:50pm | #12

   Thanks for your input.

   I've got to get out of this business

   Ed V.

1. 
   Piffin | Sep 09, 2003 10:30pm | #15

   Either that or elevate the standards.

   When you set an example you lead the pack.

   Thjose comp[anies that allow crap work go under eventually while those that do close to perfectiuon get to set their own rates and not worry about competition.

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   EdV | Sep 09, 2003 11:58pm | #16

   Thanks piffin, I'll keep on, keeping on, and to anybody looking for a contractor to build or remodel their home, "Let the buyer beware".

   Ed V.

6. 
   junkhound | Sep 03, 2003 07:59am | #6

   WELCOME Eddy.

     Surprised Piffin missed that this was your first post.

   (everybody's been real polite to you,  few years back , I got lambasted by Gabe on my first post 'cause me is a cheap DIY and part-time builder <G> - but proud to eat roadkill when needed)

   Case history for your post.  DW & self built first house in early 20s (age, not chronology) and 'somehow' got the first floor SE corner off plumb by 1/2 inch to the south.  Very noticeable when the siding went on - measurement for siding kept coming out longer???

   Anyway, built a cabinet inside that is tapered inside, built outside deck also with correction factor, no one except ourselves have ever noticed, inspectors never noticed either.

1. 
   dgarrison409 | Sep 03, 2003 12:13pm | #7

   I couldn't find a reference to this in my codebook, but I remember a building inspector telling me once that a wall could not be more out of plumb than half the width of the bottom plate. In other words 1-3/4" for a 2x4 wall.

   The last house we built had 2x6 walls so I had a little more wiggle room than that. :)

1. 
   EdV | Sep 09, 2003 10:01pm | #14

   Thanks for your reply. Perhaps I am a little to anal for this business.

   Ed V.

1. 
   honeydoos | Sep 10, 2003 02:15am | #17

   Ypu have a lot of company then.  The building codes here say that the wall must be plumb the the in 1/3 of the wall.  I say the walls that my company puts its name on muct be plumb, not to the center 1/3, they must be plumb!  that means to the center!  Abotu drove my framing helper nuts, but my wall is straight!  Lol....now this the only wall we replaced in the house so of course it is the only wall in the house that is straight. 

   While there are companies in this area that say as long as it meets the codes we go with it, I have not encountered any resistance to assuring my customers that "If I am not willing to live in the house when its done, you pay nothing."  In other words when we remodel/restore a house it is done right!; the first time.

   Theresa-Honeydoos

1. 
   Piffin | Sep 10, 2003 03:00am | #18

   let's get real now Tery honey - do tel me how plumb is plumb.

   If you are building with wood the whole wall is not totally, perfectly plumb. It is only plmb to within a certain tolerance. I don't mean to sound too challenging but really is reality, you know.

   Mine are plumb to within about 3/16" in eight feet tall, max.

   Back when I was doing siding and roofing, I saw some that were only within an inch and THAT definitely caused all kinds of problems..

   Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   joeh | Sep 10, 2003 05:09am | #19

   What happened to "Better than Plumb" ?

   Standing walls in the wind week, plumb came and went.......

   Joe H

3. 
   honeydoos | Sep 10, 2003 06:31am | #20

   I mean that I have checked the wall all along it and it is plumb to the center.  It is center from the header to the footer.  To the center of that base.  If you get straight 2xs you get a straight wall?    I will grant you exact? maybe not 100% but it is within a 1/4 inch of exact and that is a lot better than what I heard here.  Center 1/3 is a big variance to me. 

   No couple this with I was only working on one wall not an entire house, but if you philosphy is do it right and do it exact you have happy customers and I now have the worse possible problem.......I got lots of requests for me to work on other projects......

   Theresa-Honeydoos

4. 
   Piffin | Sep 10, 2003 07:13am | #21

   You got it right hunny. Do keep on..

   Excellence is its own reward!

5. 
   honeydoos | Sep 11, 2003 12:53am | #22

   Thanks darlin, will keep it up, it seems to be working so far.  Want to come to dallas?  I'll put you to work!

6. 
   Piffin | Sep 11, 2003 01:37am | #23

   Not for what I hear the wages are down yonder. Mayhap, y'all saddle up an ride thisaway t' work fer me?

   We get used rain after y'all get the hurricane.

   ;).

   Excellence is its own reward!

7. 
   honeydoos | Sep 11, 2003 01:49am | #24

   depends on where you is........but not real sure hun, am real attached to bein me own boss ya know?

2. 
   EdV | Sep 09, 2003 09:58pm | #13

   Thanks for your tolerence, my computer went down for a few days.

   Well I've seen much worse then you desribed and can't believe in this day and age that this type of workmanship is allowed. Nobody is perfect but we must raise the standard.

   Thanks again

   Ed V.