I’m not to the point of plumbing my house yet (still have to finishe the 2nd floor & roof framing), but I kinda put myself in a spot with the downstairs bathroom.
I planned & measured about 80 times, but still got it wrong & now there’s a joist where the toilet drain would go. I have a couple of ideas of how to get around this (most prefered solution first):
1) Put all the fixtures on the opposite wall. This would not affect the layout of anything else or require me to redo anything that is already in place. The only issue here (and the main reason for my question) is that there is no wall on the second floor above the opposite wall. This would require a bit of a horizontal run for the vent pipe. What is the code max for horizontal run on a vent pipe?
2) Use a 14 inch rough in toilet. This would keep our original floor plan & allow the vent pipes to go straight up the wall behind it, but would limit our choice in toilets (unless we don’t mind a toilet that’s 3 inches from the back wall)
3) Head off the offending joist
4) Move the offending joist
I really don’t want to do either 3 or 4, so it’s really between the first 2 choices. Even though I’m not doing the plumbing for a few weeks yet, I need to figure out what I’m going to do before I frame the 2nd floor.
BTW: I’d ask my local plumbing inspector, but he’s out of the office for the next few days – we use the national code here (no special local codes here)
Edited 7/29/2005 11:22 am ET by Johnny
Replies
I should note that in the first choice (flipping to the opposite wall) I would run the vent immediate up the wall behind it, but when it reached the joist bay between the first & second floor, it would have to run horizontally about 9 feet before returning to vertical.
I'd shopping for a toilet before I moved anything.
Easiest solution first, then the moving if you don't find a toilet you like.
. What about just adding 2" to the depth of your wet wall? Put a small linin storage inset into the wall above the toilet to use the space?
Joe H
I'd do that, but the other side of the wet wall is open all the way up to the second floor. If I move it, I'd have to move the wall above it as well.
I didn't mean to move the wall, just add a bit of depth to it so the toilet isn't sitting out in the middle of the room.
2"? Is the toilet in a separate little throne room, or on a wall the length of the bath? If it has it's own little hidey hole, nobody will notice the wall is deeper.
Joe H
I get what you are saying. That might work. I'll have to look at it again tomorrow morning.
i love it!!!! hehehe "the offender joist"
......book em danno!
Is the offending joist parallel to the toilet, or perpendicular? If perpendicular you may be able to switch to a toilet with a different rough-in dimension (i.e. 10" instead of 12") and get some clearance from the joist. I would not use an offset closet flange.
I think I'd have to go with a 14" rough in. I know that they have those too. I guess it's not that huge of a deal.
I'm just kinda frustrated because I spent forever laying out & making sure I had it right & then one wrong read of the tape measure & I'm off by two inches.
I'm just kinda frustrated because I spent forever laying out & making sure I had it right ........
As I said in my prev post, just head it off. It's not worth throwing out the time you invested over a simple mistake. Heading it off isn't too difficult. If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
I would second the idea of looking for a toilet with a 14" rough-in. I know Toto has such a toilet. If I recall correctly, it's a 12" rough-in but you can buy a special kit/adapter to change it to 10 or 14" rough-in.
Yes, I just confirmed this on their website. Check out:
http://www.totousa.com/productpage.asp?PID=121
I have two of them in myhouse.
The 14" rough in is looking like a better option as I look around. Homecenter.com has plenty of nice looking 14" rough toilets. I haven't been over to my plumbing supplier in a while, so I'll go check out his selection.
Why not use an offset flange?
From what I've heard, offset flanges can cause clogs...
From what I've heard, offset flanges can cause clogs...
I almost used one once. The offset was not enough to get around my problem. Never heard of it causing a clog but that doesn't mean it isn't true. If I were you I'd just head off the joist. Don't change your plan, don't use some oddball toilet. My case was an electrical conduit. That was quit a bit of work to move.
"My case was an electrical conduit."
I'm definitely putting in all my DWV pipes before any electrical, supply pipiing or HVAC. I figure it's alot easier for the others to go around existing DWV than the other way around. I want the smoothest exit for waste water.
I imagine it's easier to plan that way if you are the only one doing all the work. If you are doing a job for a GC with a dozen plus other subs, you get in there when you can & hope someone hasn't taken all the good stud & joist bays ;)
Edited 8/1/2005 12:07 pm ET by Johnny
I'm definitely putting in all my DWV pipes before any electrical, supply pipiing or HVAC. I figure it's alot easier for the others to go around existing DWV than the other way around. I want the smoothest exit for waste water.
I imagine it's easier to plan that way if you are the only one doing all the work. If you are doing a job for a GC with a dozen plus other subs, you get in there when you can & hope someone hasn't taken all the good stud & joist bays ;)
Someday I hope to work on new construction. I own apartments and every job I do is a renovation. Most of the time it's between tenants with the rest of the building occupied.
Johnny, since you're learning GC'ing. Fix or plan your future on that toilet now, later you may forget. Get all the hard piping folks in there for a meeting of the minds. Find out the HVAC main trunks and returns, the rest doesn't hurt either. Same with the plumbing (yourself I assume). Map this stuff out and you will be happy later, less "oh #### 's". But then again, that's just the opinion of a dumb carpenter.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
I'm not GC'ing, I'm doing just about everything myself.
OK, then just carry on and deal with the problems as they occur. Sorry, my mistake.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
And I'm sure many problems will occur too. I expect to learn alot. I haven't chosen fixtures or anything yet, because we are building as we get the $$ - hopefully to end up with little or no mortgage. I don't want to get set on any particular item since it might be discontinued by the time we can actually purchase fixtures.
This certainly will make for some creative planning.
Edited 8/1/2005 1:19 pm ET by Johnny
I'd just like you to remember this when you lash out at Mike Smith. Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Why would I lash out at Mike? From what he said, I apparently can't trust contractors to do their job without hovering over them...
I know that's not the case with good workers, I was spoofing another thread that took one DIY example & implied that anyone who does their own work is a tool.
Oh, never mind...
I would just head off the joist. Usually not to difficult.
Wood is Good
Adam Greisz
Johnny, my 2 cents, I know you dont' want to do option 3 but why not? it's the most logical solution to keeping your original design. Your problem is not unique, been there and done that before. You obviously had a design in mind for you bathroom which means you expended the effort into dreaming of it and designing it. Why give that up for an offending floor joist which can be headed off with a little extra elbow grease. Between you and a floor joist, the battle should be yours to win.
I guess it's not that big a deal to head off the joist. I think for now I'll jost go on with framing the rest of the house & work that issue out later. It shouldn't affect any of the rest like I thought it would.
You can also get a 10" toilet if that would work out better. DanT