Hi all, I am a owner/builder of a new home. I got my roughin plumbing inspection today. I admit to being an amature plumber, but I worked hard at imitating plumbing jobs I looked at in other unfinished homes in my area that were being done professionally. My inspector failed my job because I used sanitary tees to vent the bathtubs and toilets. These tees were placed horizontally in the waste line with the small part of the tee facing up. He told me that even though there was no water in the line going up that it had to be a combo or whye fitting. The reason I chose to use these fittings (the tees) is because I was emulating a job near my house that had that exact configuration. My question is, am I being singled out because I`m an amature? I do think that if I didn`t have a basement, and the line wasn`t so easy to see he never would have crawled under the house to look. Also I wonder what this guys real power is? Can I appeal? What if I don`t change it? Changing these tees will require major revisions due to the fact that there isn`t enough room in the floor to conceal the plumbing if I have to use the longer sweep type fittings. Thanks for any opinions.
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I would be inclined to change it.The reasoning is this: it's easier to change it once and be done with it,rather than try to snake it every time it clogs.I think sani-tees are for vertical applications only.
Thanks for your input
Rather than trying to imitate what you see at another job site, you might be better served to purchase one of those "how-to" books at your plumbing supply....the one I'm thinking of is a magazine-size paper back that does a pretty good job of describing code-approved waste systems so that you UNDERSTAND the reason you're doing what you're doing rather than simply aping someone elses work (which may be wrong but was missed by the inspector).
Oddly enough, waste plumbing can be a real challenge for the inexperienced....not that it is impossible, but, because of slope and trap and vent and cleanout and sizing specifications, is actually more demanding than installing your potable water system.
And inspectors will usually scrutinize a DIY install much more closely than that of a pro whose work they're familiar with.
Some inspectors can be real jerks, but most are pretty conciencious about doing their job, which is making sure you obey proven methods that make your home safe and reasonably trouble-free.
It's best to try to focus on doing things right in areas that will become inaccessable once your walls are closed up.
AND, if you do think your inspector is jacking you around and feel the need to challenge him, you had better be schooled up enough to challenge him with FACTS or specific code requirements, or you're going to get extra scrutiny on subsequent inspections. A good number of plumbing and electrical inspectors have worked as plumbers or electricians and are quite familiar with the codes and are also accustomed to having their authority challenged.....
And if you do defy them, they can put a stop order on your job, preventing you from proceeding with insulation, wall and ceiling cover until corrections are made and approved.
If you DO proceed without making corrections, you might find yourself needing to rent a jackhammer.....
How can I get the facts about whether the tees are allowed without buying a copy of the plumbing code?
The handbook I mentioned is a "how-to" book; not a codebook and, as I recall, it costs about $4.
But, if I were you, I would consider purchasing a copy of the IRC codebook to help you through your project. I believe a current copy (which will be the 2003 with updates) with plumbing, electrical, mechanical and structural sections will run about $125, a small price to pay against the cost of a home and the frustration of redoing new work that is wrong.
The basic code for residential waste plumbing hasn't changed a whole lot and you might even find an older codebook at a library or a used book store.
New codebooks are a little hard to find: I get mine at http://www.BuildingTechBooks.com
(edited to correct link)
Edited 6/25/2005 11:03 am ET by Notchman
I gave you the wrong link;
go to http://www.BuildingTechBooks.com
Thanks, certainly $125 won`t break me. I`m curious, the tone and style of you message suggests to me that you are an inspector or maybe an educator?
As for apeing someone elses work, my experence has been that quality work is easy to identify, things that are done in a craftsman like way are usually OK. This plumbing issue is more about keeping my plumbing concealed in the floor cavity than getting into a contest with an inspector. I spoke with him, no he hasn`t been a contractor or worked in the trades. He came to public service right out of school.
"inspector or educator..."
Neither. Should I feel insulted or flattered? :-)
Actually, I'm just a small hands-on GC with a small crew who does custom houses, remodels, etc.
I sub out plumbing, though I've done it on occasion...
As I stated earlier, the waste system can be difficult....my plumber is 3rd generation and he and I often have to get our heads together to make a portion of a waste system legal.
Part of the problem, in our area, at least, is that some of the structural requirements (lots of seismic components and lots of shearwalls) create some real challenges for placing utilities and service equipment.
But, in the end, there is always a solution....
I assume they do NOT call you Notchman because you cut huge chunks out of joists to get the drains thru.
No, it's an old nickname I picked up on a timberframe job.
But, I have to say, cutting big holes and slots and notches to accomodate plumbing has been tempting at times... :-)
LOL. Cutting too big notches was the way the plumber got in trouble on the last job I worked on. :-)
I am not sure where you go the price the 2003 IRC is $60-70.But CodeCehck books are check and a good resource.But you can find a good bit of it online.http://www.codecheck.com/pg00cover.htm
#1 rule, buy the book "plumbing a house" by taunton press, it at Lowes and HD. really a very good book.and yes you are being single out. Nothing you can do about it. These inspector has the power and are on a power trip. These people walmart will not hire.
Rusty,
The code specifies that 'vent pipe below flood rim must be drainage pattern', meaning that if your tees, laying on their backs, are below the top of their respective fixtures, they will need to be changed to wyes or combos. Since you mention that these fittings are within the floor framing, I assume they are below the flood rims of their fixtures and that the inspector is correct, using either UPC or IRC.
As far as the job down the street, it may be good to look but lots of 'pro' plumbers out there do so-so work and you do not need to emulate that. Also, how do you know that the inspector has not/will not bust them too? Did you study the vents you saw to be sure those tees are below rim?
The job I looked at was the same as mine, in the floor. They are installing drywall now so I don`t think any change was made. Thanks for your specific answer to my question though, thats what I needed
You have to know what the local code requires in your area. They are different in all states, and most counties with-in the state. Try to ask a plumber thats working on something nearby what is required in your area. Most plumbers have no problem helping you out. [I am one]. Under no circumstances piss the inspector off; this is a no win situation, do what he wants if it won't cost a arm and leg [Even if he's wrong] and get your job done. Lots of luck.