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Bill,
I prefer 5/8″ CDX plywood with ply clips nailed at 8″ centers in the field and 4″ centers at edges for most roof decks. I’ve had no problems with sagging or rafters telegraphing through this way. Many of the roofs I’ve let the OSB in on have shown the sagging and sponginess you’re describing. You can get real problems if the deck is allowed to get wet before being covered. Similar problems happen in floors with OSB vs. Plywood. My vote is for plywood. If any manufacturers out there are reading, I’ll take my kickback now!
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Bill,
I prefer 5/8" CDX plywood with ply clips nailed at 8" centers in the field and 4" centers at edges for most roof decks. I've had no problems with sagging or rafters telegraphing through this way. Many of the roofs I've let the OSB in on have shown the sagging and sponginess you're describing. You can get real problems if the deck is allowed to get wet before being covered. Similar problems happen in floors with OSB vs. Plywood. My vote is for plywood. If any manufacturers out there are reading, I'll take my kickback now!
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Bill,
I prefer 5/8" CDX plywood with ply clips nailed at 8" centers in the field and 4" centers at edges for most roof decks. I've had no problems with sagging or rafters telegraphing through this way. Many of the roofs I've let the OSB in on have shown the sagging and sponginess you're describing. You can get real problems if the deck is allowed to get wet before being covered. Similar problems happen in floors with OSB vs. Plywood. My vote is for plywood. If any manufacturers out there are reading, I'll take my kickback now!
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Chad agree with you, we use 5/8 on all roofs with rafters at 16" we skip the clips and don't space the panels. This just see to work better. Most of the framers around here are using 1/2 osb with clips on roofs. Don't get me wrong I'm all for using osb and still use cdx when price allows but 1/2 on roofs doesn't seem to work
*I have seen the condition you describe quite a bit with houses built in the '60's. A lot of these seem to have been decked with 3/8 ply. the ply's delaminated.( the wood was still good but no glue left, giving the panel the rigidity of a magazine).I have not seen this yet with OSB, I guess time will tell.7/16 with clips on 24" centers very common here.Apparently no one will pay for 1/2'cdx 3ply(let alone 4ply)Rarely see any roof decking 5/8 or greater in either cdx or osb. good luck Stephen
*5/8 OSB,no clips,NO PROBLEMS!Almost fell through 1/2 ply once,scarred the s*** out of me!Never use that warping,delaminating junk again.OK, I'm ready for the razzing!!!!
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we use only 5/8" cdx plywood with clips also....we would use 3/4" T&G sturdi floor if we could afford it screwed to the rafters....in our area some firemen will not get on a roof decked with osb...they say it crumbles when it gets hot...also have seen a lot of sagging between 24" spacing with both 1/2plywood and 7/16 osb even when clips used....we recently got a bundle of 3/4" plywood that was stamped as 5/8"....we decked the roof with it anyway and boy was it solid.....for once we got the best of the lumber company......also i believe the steeper the roof the less likely to sag between rafters......or at least ive seen more sagging on 6/12 roofs on down than i have on steeper roofs......
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What's the deal with osb prices? They are 40% more than last year, which way they going? Is OPEC doing this?
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5/8cdx is what we ususlly run. If OSB is callled for we will do all we can to go 5/8ths or have a disclaimer signed. Here
in the northwest we have way to much mositure for me to chance using OSb where it could get wet. I too have seen it get week and spongy and no sign of water damage. You can tell an older OSB roof from the road if the sun is right (or wrong). I have seen a lot of sagging with 1/2 inch cdx too. If you really want to see sagging look at an older place ( 10 years) with 7/16 OSB.Also years back some builders used to run OSB all the way to the fascia or barge but now they use 1/2inch on the overhangs (even closed soffit) and OSB for the rest. Why ? waterdamage. Roofs and floors are no place to cut corners or costs. Havent heard the one about heat damage to OSB. I have seen plywood boats but havent seen an OSB one yet !!
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Here in MI, we are trying to save the owls!
We typically have steep roofs, 8/12 and up and use 7/16 osb" with clips, on trusses spaced 24" oc.
Ice and water shield protects the lower edge from ice dams. All eaves are closed. There are a lot of dimensional shingles used.
All attics are properly vented now. That wasn't the case ten years ago. Maintaining proper attic temperatures, and humidity is crucial for osb, as well as cdx.
There are two things that get telegraphed. One is plywood or osb layed tight, that buckles at the joints due to expansion/contraction. The other is the bumps that are caused by imperfect trusses.
Neither is influenced by the thickness of the sheathing! A truss that is 3/8" above the plane shows a bump, no matter how thick the ply is!
To my knowledge, no one has ever fallen through a roof, in any capacity!
I used to be opposed to osb because I was an old fart! I now have adjusted, and actually like it. It is stiffer than cdx, and has a grippable surface that makes it safer to install.
I think many of the detractors have been exposd to inferior products such as particle board, flake board etc.
T&G is overkill! it would be far better to lay 1/2" cdx and invest the difference in the high end designer shingles!
My first house had 3'8" cdx, 24" oc trusses. It was a 4/12. It lasted twenty five years and was not properly vented. I overlayed it with 30 year shingles, and it still looks great! It might bend a little when the birds walk midspan, but it springs right back up when he flies off!
Save the owls!
"Save a tree: Eat a beaver."
*I use 5/8ths fir ply only on roofs, 16"oc stick-built. I never use trusses, never use osb on roofs, attic is always constructed as part of the living envelope with a full set of stairs to access.
*b Blue you light footed devil you! We would all like to use 3/4 for roof decking but I have to scream and shout just to get 5/8. Here in Maryland the cdx is getting to be poor with sheets starting to delam in the hacks. I to was a no osb on my jobs after watching it swell and bust. I think that todays osb is a lot better and will stand up to the rain showers that catch us. I don't think that I could sleep at night using 7/16 on 24". When I haul my 6'4" 250 lb frame up on the roof I want to be able to walk with out that moon bounce feeling. After looking at this house I have done some closer looking and you can see all the roofs(4/12 to6/12) with the valleys showing at the peak between the joists. I know that a lot of people space their panels but I'm not one of them. I've always butted tight and nail the piss out of them(4&6) PS. The bank building inspecter(nice job he has) was by today and agreed with me to re do the whole roof.b Why save the owl when it's better then chicken
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Bill I just found this site and would like to relate my building horror story about roof coverings. After spending many hours and getting prices from differant builders on my plans that I bought from a housing plan book I had my house finally build three years ago and the builder used OSB for the roof. My roof is made from trusses and the OSB was 7/16. Over this I used the shingles that looked like slate or wooden shingles. Sorry I do not know the correct term. My wife and I bought a dish for the television and the young man who came to install thought that the roof was the best spot. He carried up the dish and a small tool box while I watched from the ground. As I moved to the backyard to watch what he was doing I heard a loud noise as he fell thur the roof. I had a repair service come out and they patched the roof. The crew foreman said that the wood was not rotted but the man had fallen where two sheets meet. I called the builderwho came out and said that the roof was not leaking and the Plywood type underlayment was legal and the correct size for this house. I now wonder if in all my shopping if I didn't hurt myself with this roof. Is the 7/16 not right. Should I have used 5/8 or the 3/4 that I have read about? Thank you for your help in advance
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Bill and all the others that think they might fall through, if I was 6-4, 250, I'd be lookin for the trusses, when I was walking the roof!
I think if we would all consult our loading charts we would learn and understand why plywwod and osb fails. Most tradesmen usually learn early on in their carreers to tread lightly. They understand that placing all their weight on the balls of one foot can exert an enormous amount of pressuere per square inch!
Roofs are not designed to support concentrated loads. The worst case scenario is a snow load that is evenly distributed across the spans. A 7/16" roof, clipped will span 24" and will not sag unless there is some problem in the attic ventilation dept.
The lower pitched roofs would tend to sag quickly with faulty attic ventialtion. Like I said, we do proper attic ventilation. It's part of the MI energy code.
Bless you souls for humping that heavier than necessary stuff up on the roof. I only see it as more time wasted/invested that could otherwise be invested in doing a better job elsewhere.
I tend to save time on the jobs that I can, and re-invest it in more technical, or decorative applications. This approach helps me to blend my artisanship with my need to make money!
I used to be an artist, now I'm a carpenter. I've learned the most important lesson on the jobsite: balancing quality with quantity!
Installing 5/8, 3/4, 1" or any thing more swings the balance over to quality at the expense of quantity. And for what? So the birds have a stiffer landing zone?
No thanks, I'll do it my way! And besides, that's what 95% of the other builders are doing here anyways!
Thinner and steeper in MI.
*Ken, there are a number of reasons why that could happen. If there are cuts in the sheet (for vents, etcc.) there would be a weak spot. If the top sheet had to be cut, and measures less than 8", that would be a violation and void the warranty. If the vertical joints don't land properly on the frming member, a problem could occur.Take a look in the attic and look for any of these conditions. If you don't see any, stop worrying about it and don't let any one walk around on your roof anymore! They are ruining the shingles anyways!We've got 100,000 houses in the metro Detroit area that are built with 7/16", 24" oc trusses, and nobody is falling through!Blue"Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy."
*The roofer would climb down and summon the superintendent before he'd lay anything on that tight of a roof. Bill, you'd be up on the roof running a saw cut on every joint, both horizontal, and vertical around here! The builders do get the shingles on quickly too, to avoid any possibity of swelling. Usually the painter sprays the pine the day after we finish the rough, and the roof is installed the day after that.Blue
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Ken, after just spending $12,000 to replace my roof I feel for you. I'm just a DIY'er and while cleaning out the gutters this fall went thur my roof. My house is nine years old and I too fell thur where the Plywood went together. Mine is plywood not the Osb but was 1/2". The part that pissed me off was the shingles have a 30 year life but the roof goes in less then ten? I had the building inspecter out and he said that 12 is allowed. I try and maintain my home and had none of the problems of bad venting as I read above. The guy's who gave me the price( called 5 differant companies) all commented on the roof being springie. They installed 5/8 OSB and now the roof is "firmer" to walk on when I go up there.
After all of this by brother who lives in the same area checked his roof and found that the plywood had sunk between the trusses at the peak.(1/2) Is this going to be a big thing as time goes on? I know that builders ahve to make a profit on there work but the differance at Home Depot was $300 on 1/2 verus 5/8. When I have my next house build this roof thing is going to be solved I hope.
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Blue anytime someone pulls out the side ruler I start to run. Reminds me the old one....I'm from the govertment and I'm here to help you line. This thing is bugging me about why 1/2 is failing on roofs. To your credit Blue all the ones I've found so far have been low pitch(6/12) or under. Up the road from me in PG county they have a bunch of folks who are studing housing and building construction. I'm going to a meeting that they have next week and I'll ask.
Fred as far as builders go most of them are tring to do a good job. There's a few of them that will always give the rest of us bad names. I don't think that your builder was at blame. As time goes by problems are found and the way we do things change. No one would ballon frame now and park a whole second floor on a nailed ribbon ledger. Read through some of this posts and you'll see the "debates" on venting houses.
*Bill,I'm a builder and I say "100% of any building failure is the builder'sresponsibility."In all my years I have chosen materials and systems that are a step up from the minimum sold or used in my area. Why? Because the minimums are failing all around me and in less than ten years. Homes should be built smaller and made to lastlonger. The basic structure should be built to last tensof years. (Roof deck sheathing is part of the basic structure) Unfortunately this is a "Wal-Mart world" for 80% of us, so "bigger with more features" is the easy sell. And that's what capitalism is basedon...Sales, a market, best price, etc....Quality over quantity every time,Jack : )
*It could be that they are using 3 ply. I've run into that, and thats scary stuff! It would be probable that it would sag between the rafters. I only remember seeing it once.We used to get a very good product called potlatch. It was 1/2" 5 ply fir plywood. Very good for roofs. Most of the 3/8" that I remember laying was yellow pine. I'd be suspicious of a fir 3/8" sheathing too.In any event, I know that we are not having any problems with roofs around here. It might be the climate, or whatever. I've never, repeat NEVER heard of anyone using 5/8" or larger and most houses are trussed.Go figure!Blue
*Jack, an old carpenter named "buck" once leaned over and whispered some advice to me, when I questioned why he was doing something that wasn't quite right: "Ya' gotta' leave something for ya' to do in yore old age, doncha?"I'll be lookin' forward to stripping all them roofs and re-doing them! And at a hansome price too!Blue
*Blue,Your posting great examples of the 80/20 rule...ThanksChaos...life...existence...and all ourdifferences...ain't it fun to play in the sand box!Jack : () )
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RJT-
I'm not sure what the case is in your area, but in the northwest (where we get most of our OSB from Canada, thanks to NAFTA), the price doubled due to a couple of plant fires. Pricing is down to near normal now. I use it 'cause the quality of ply we see up here is so crappy it doesn't even compare (Alaska). I would be willing to pay more for a more quality product, but we can only get what the suppliers sell w/o paying HUGE s/h costs.
I'm very satisfied with my 7/8" T&G OSB flooring. It was 10x the quality of the 1 1/8" ply also available. Also, still completely level, with no sogn of warping or shrinking (spaced at the required 1/8" per side). I think te difference is in the quality of glues 10 - 20 years ago to now.
Willing to true the new, Rick
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err, I'll take that as a compliment. By the way, what is the 80/20 rule?
*blue,It's the "magic formula" forpredicting the ebb and flow of life...of man's choices...of all that is debatable...ofnote...of study and more....Not unlike Murphy's law....and Moore's...yesyes yes....hmmmm...Far into, taking up space,Jack : ) )()
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In the meer five years ive been framing custom homes, I have seen radical changes in the way things are built. The builders that I frame for often rely more on my experience than that of a residential designer, or even a buiding inspector. The Builders I work with are better businessmen than craftsmen, that is why the hire tradesmen like myself. First it is essential to space all panels osb and plywood alike. My crews will install over 500 sheets of osb this month, all are stamped "sized for spacing", but depending on the manufacturer a 4x8 sheet will be anywhere from, 47 3/4 x 95 3/4 to a full 48 x 96 (sometimes bigger!) Whether a simpson clip is used to space these sheets I'm at sixes. The relative strentgh these clips add, I think can olny be deterimined by and engineer at his desk. In my opinion, the factors that cause the greatest "sag" are roof pitch and roofing choice. I have only noticed the "sag" on low pitch asphalt covered roofs. I dont believe that the plywood clips would prevent this from occuring. I dont belive that 5/8 sheathing would prevent it either. One roof that comes to mind is a 6/12 straight gable with a dark asphalt shingle, the sag wasnt very apparent until the morning frost hit and the frost melted first above the trusses, exagerating the effect. The nieghboring house is the same pitch with a cedar shake roof. This house had no apparent "sag" and no telegraphing of the trusses. This "sag" was also seemingly apparent on a neighboring house with a 10/12 pitch (again covered in asphalt). The frost was playing tricks with my eyes. I concluded that no matter how well the roof is framed, frost does this on the ever so popular asphalt roof. When all is said and done I dont belive either homeowner cared. About the dangers of breaking through, the roofer that often follows me is a hefty 250lb man. I dont belive he falls through roofs on a daily basis. Actually I've never heard of anyone falling through a roof (what were these crazy guys doing?) I dont belive that every roof deseves 5/8 sheathing. I know that it may be a meer $300 to upgrade but if you were to ask my wife, she would rather put that $300 into the kitchen. In my region 5/8 is only required in the higher elevations or when an engineer specifies. Consider the pitch and roofing choice when deciding, and if you have the money anyway... go with the 5/8"
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Jonathan, thats an interesting comment, the one about sizes that are sized for spacing.
I've never encountered any that were anything less (or more) than 48 x 96. It's alwasy been a mystery to me why that is stamped that way.
We do, however tend to get a fairly decent quality lumber supply here in the bigger metro areas. Some of the outlying area supply houses tend to have weird selections of lumber. Example: Don't try to get a hem fir 2x12, much less a microlam: they'll tell ya' "special order, it'll be here in three days". And that's if they know what you are talking about! I usually stick to the major yards because of the predictable supply.
*I briefly considered looking for info on the "sized for spacing" issue, soon realize they'd never admit there was a problem. Anyway, I got distracted by:Oracle of the Plywood Elvis - Plywood Elvis has all the answers! What began as a tacky christmas lawn ornament in Belgrade, MT, is now the sassiest soothsayer on the net!
*I went wrong looking for the "American Plywood Association" -- it doesn't exist. No, it's APA - The Engineered Wood Association. And APA stands for? Gosh, when even they give up on plywood, you know it's time to sit up and listen about OSB. (Actually it started as DFPA, even more specific):>APA is a nonprofit trade association that has grown and evolved with the engineered wood industry. APA was founded in 1933 as the Douglas Fir Plywood Association, and was later recognized as the American Plywood Association. In 1994, APA changed its name to APA - The Engineered Wood Association to better reflect the range of products manufactured by APA members and the international scope of the association. Those products now include plywood, oriented strand board (OSB), glued laminated timber (glulam), composite panels and wood I-joists. APA is a source of information about engineered wood products for a wide range of applications. (Yes, I like knowing the answers to trivial questions. And I like finding the answers even more.)The closest to an answer I found in a 15-minute search was this: Builder TipsHere's my unsupported theory: The panels are cut 1/8" shy during manufacture, but pick up moisture enroute to the job & do that expansion thing the manuf. warns about. So the contractor measures apparently random dimensions at the site. (So maybe they could cut a bit smaller?) BTW, the T&G subfloor I put in actually was exactly 1/8" smaller. Since they were stored outside during the our dry winter, maybe they were quite dry when brought into the house?
*It is my understanding that the clips keep the two edges riding together as one unit if some unequal pressure is applied to either of the adjoining sheets.In the absence of these clips, one ply would certainly be flexed downward (a considerable amount) while the other stayed straight. On bare plywood, this would not be a problem because the sag would rebound as soon as the weight was removed. If there were shingles involved however, the shingles would have a tendency to tear, or at the very least, pop the nails loose on the flexed portion.Sometimes we substitute blocks of wood, stapled securely, when a clip is missing, or its impractical to use the clips. willing to sacrifice quality up there were no sane man treads,Blue
*Jonathon,The clips line up the sheathing edgesmidspan...and do provide some support...that's it...they were not meant to hold 300 poundmen carrying loads...that's what 5/8" sheathing (withclips) will do, always.Spending the money on the "no sag, won't fall thru, even on the odd bluemoon,"...sheathing,...and on the wives!Jack : ) )(
*If marine plywood was as crappy as cdx, I would build boat out of OSB.Ron...boat builder and house builder
*Two cents worth from a DIY homeowner. (I realize this is a week later than the last post, but I just got my new computer up and running, screwed it up the first time around).A couple of years back I was helping a friend re-roof his house. Everything went great until the new roofing was delivered. Due to power line obstruction, the materials could only be delivered to the eaves. We had most of the materials up to the ridge when I picked a bundle off of the conveyer, next thing I new my feet were sticking out of my friends living room ceiling and I had some very sore ribs where my framing hammer caught of the roof sheathing and jabbed me in the side. I don't know why the 1/2" plywood failed, but I learned my lesson 5/8" went on my house when I put on the addition and re-roofed the rest of the house. (16 months and a new son later it was finally signed off, thats the addition, not my son)OSB vs. Plywood? Don't know the answer, but I do know that 5/8" is the minimum that I will put on my house.
*Blue----I don't suppose you believe this guy either,huh?
*Maj, I never said I don't believe, only that there has to be an explanation.How do you explain our local usage of 3/8" ply?Do you think that the inspectors would allow 3/8" if people were falling through?Iv'e laid thousands of 5 ply 1/2" osb, thousands of 7/16" osb,and several houses of 3/8", and have never broke through. I did, as a matter of principle walk only over the framing members on the 3/8" roofs. One time, we had to go back and replace a narrow rip at the top of an osb job, where the roofers had overloaded between the joist. If they had paid more attention, and laid the stack over the roof frame members, there would have been no problem. Thats not plwood failure, that's human error.So, tell me, how many plys were there in that plywood sheet that failed?Like I said earlier, there is a world of differennce between a 3 ply, and a 5 ply. I'd be willing to bet that there is an insignificant difference in strength between a 5/8" 3ply, and a 1/2" 5 ply.I suppose you don't believe me either?Maj, what would motivate him, or me to lie?Happilly dancin' on 7/16" osb,Blue
*Oh yeah, I forgot to mention; My barn roofs is all osb with dimensional shingles. No leaks, nobody fell through and the homeowner is very satisfied, and so is his wife! And it looks good!Listen guys, I am an old fart that doesn't trust any new products! Look at my posts about floor trusses. I'm a hard guy to sell stuff to. But when a product proves itself, I'll use it!In the old days, they scoffed when plywood was introduced. It probably was an inferior product to the #1 1x12"s that I have seen used on roofs! Should we still be using #1 1x12's? Should painters still be using brushes instead of rollers? Should carpenters still be using handsaws?All of those things were said to be the bane of construction! Learn to properly use the osb and 1/2" ply, and it will perform for you too! That means don't use inferior 3plys, don't neglect to ventilate (cool) your attic, and get those joints in the middle of the support member.I believe!Blue
*BlueCouldn't tell you how many plys, didn't think to look. Maybe the plywood deteriorated over the years?? The attic wasn't well ventilated prior to the re-roof. It did appear that the plywood failed at the seam first. It just seems to me that the roof deck should have been able to handle my weight (210 lbs) plus a bundle of shingles, even in less than ideal circumstances.It may have been overkill using 5/8 on my house, my roofing experience is limited to three roofs, but the extra cost (approx $450) is about the same as the deductible on my medical insurance and less than the deductible on my homeowners insurance. But then again I was an easy sale since it was my house.
*Are these roof failures related to the FRT ( Fire resistant treatment or such) Plywood that was sold in the VA area in the early 80's? Our northern VA townhouse development was built then and FRT was required by Fairfax County. Most of these homes have had their plywood replaced (including ours). The plywood was deteriorating and there were stories of roofers falling through. The Hoover Wood Preservative company did not reimburse any homeowners in this area, but they have stopped selling FRT plywod.I just measured the piece I kept, it is 1/2 inch 3 ply.On the new house I am having built, the standard in the area is 1/2" (7/16 actual) OSB on 24" o.c. trusses.Frank
*I am confused as to why you guy's keep falling through roofs. Are you really that clumsy or am I just lucky?I would conservatively estimate that over the years I have loaded about....Oh lets say 18 zillion squares on to various rooftops. Never fallen through during that procedure.SCOTT,next time ,take your tool belt off before working around the boom buddy. It was probably being weighted down with all your DIY tools that pulled you through the 1/2"(and in keeping with our new politically correct format I will point out that no offense was intended with that last remark).I have broken through a few roofs but it had nothing to do with plywood or osb but more to do with rotted out 80 year old 1x8's.Never gone in more than knee deep and never even touched a ceiling (knock on wood).Experience,Quick Reactions,and most importantly LUCK. HEY BLUE, congrats on the barn.I put up a similar but much smaller project at my place last summer.Also used 7/16 osb and my favorite dimensional shingles. Had to confine myself to a mere 7/12 pitch because of a height restriction but I gained consolation by not using any felt.Did use ridge and soffit vents though . Good Luck, Stephen
* 5-ply 1/2"? The difference between 3- and 4-ply is tremendous -- I'd like to see some of this 5-ply. I take it the thinner plys are made from better veneers? HD sells 4-ply, but they hide it waaaaay up high, you have to ask for it by name AND convince the clerk that they do sell it, leading him/her by the ear to the stack.While we're on the roof, what brands of dimensional shingles do you folks use? I'm entirely content with asphalt generally, but do like the dimensional ones on my neighbor's roof.(BTW, wood shakes were the roofing of choice when i was a kid back in Los Angeles, despite repeated brush fires that loved to hopscotch across these roofs. I think they finally got around to outlawing them, over the outraged protests of many homeowners. A great look in the country though.)
*Thats funny...NO FELT!I went out on a limb too! I didn't put any felt either!I love living on the edge!!!I've got soffit vent, but haven't vented the ridge because the attic is still exposed upstairs. The barn is tucked into a group of mature hardwoods, and the trees do a good job of shading the entire structure, thus keeping it relatively cool. I'm not too worried aboutexcess heat drying out the sheathing, or the shingles.Your comment about walking roofs is on taget. A 210# man with a 20# toolbelt, and a 60# bundle of shingles should be very aware of where and HOW he places his foot, every step! It's not just a matter of falling through, but I don't have to tell you that. I too, have had mishaps, but limited them to very small incidents through quickness and foresight. I carry all materials in a way, so that I can unload it on the downhill side! I don't want a load of materials pushing me off, if I get tangled, or slip (usually) on cords or hoses. I've seen guys riding the magic plywood sheet off the roof, but it doesn't sail as good as the majic carpet! Always lookin for the joists,Blue
*The 5 ply was an excellent product made by a small (mom and pop) canadien mill. The brand was called potlatch. They stopped producing about a year or two ago, and now the standad in these parts is 1/2" 4 ply. It doesn't matter, though, because most are using the osb. Occasionaly, I'll see an inferior osb onsite. It is significantly different, haveing more flex than usual. Every time this happens (once a year), I'll alert the lumber man, who'll jot down the numbers and alert his buyers. Maybe it's this type of joint vigilance that keeps our supplies at a high quality level. Usually the lumber man will also indicate to me, that others have mentioned it too! The same goes for deck plys that have a tendency to delaminate. We get them replaced free from the mills.I've never bought plywood from a HD, but noticed thatmost of their wood products are inferior to the ones I frame with. I guess I'm lucky to be in avery large building market with giant lumber suppliers competeing with each other in terms of, price and quality. Every time I've had to frame a house for a small builder, that used an independant lumber supplier, I've noticed a substantial difference in overall quality. They tend to send spf headers, inferior white pine, and cedar, inferior decks plywood, and osb products, etc. I guess the bigger guys get the best lumber, and the little guys take what's left.As for as the shingles, I like the thicker asphalt; they break up the monotony of the flat surface better, with their deeper lines. The cedar shingles is a regional supply thing, kinda like seeing a lot of fieldstone houses in a rocky area. Blue
*Blue,sorry I spouted off.You're right,you did not state that you don't believe it.On the other hand,if you would look at my post earlier,I did not say I fell through,Only that I almost fell through.You're also correct that what I almost fell through was 3 or 4 ply(I don't remember how many plies)cdx.As I stated in the post,that is why I prefer OSB now,it just feels more solid under my feet.The reason we use 5/8 OSB for roofs,is so we don't have to mess with using clips(which is mandatory on 1/2" roof sheathing here).It seems the quality of cdx we get here just is'nt what it should be.There again,we are talking about regional differences.On another (not so FINE)forum site,The OSB vs.PLY question was brought up.One guy stated that OSB should never be used for anything structural,that this is the reason new houses are inferior nowadays.I let him know my feelings on plywood,but have never gotten a response back from him.This is one reason I can't stay off this (sometimes offensive site).At least you guys respond back with your(sometimes one way)opinions(heh,heh,heh).BTW,Blue?You must be Norwegian.Because I've heard you can always tell a Norwegian(you just can't tell him much)!!!!!!!!!!
*Not so Maj, I actually will listen, and try anything, but I'm a hard guy to convince.Once I'm convinced, I am furiously loyal.One thing that you mentioned is the elimination of clips. That idea appeals to me. I think it would speed up the installation labor, despite the weight difference. It might be worthwhile to have a little chat with the lumber man, and the super. How much more does a 5/8" sheet weigh?See, I'm already leaning toward the 5/8", but strictly to line my labor intensive pocketbook!You'll find that most of my philosophy is oriented toward ease of installation. It's been my life's work, and it's hard to think in any other terms.I don't mind being offensive, but I haven't been there yet on this site.Biding my time to pick my spot,Blue
*Andrew d, since you asked,my hands down favorite dimensional shingle is the ELK brand .25 yr.,30yr.,even a 40 yr.I have been using these for years,from way back when they were about the only dimensional shingle in my area. All the new entrants to this segment of the market are just "wannabe's" in my humble opinion. Good Luck,Stephen.
*StephenI would have to say lucky, but thats just a DIY'er spouting off. And no my overweight, DIY toolbelt wasn't offended by your comment (the pc police can turn off their lights). Sometimes gravity just takes over. But I will stand by my previous comments. I still think a roof deck should be able to support an unlucky, overweight, clumsy DIY'er, with a chubby toolbelt and a bundle of shingles. Not only now, but 20 years from now. Regardless of whether or not you are walking above the rafters. The marginal cost of 5/8 plywood seems to be cheap insurance to me.
*Scott, glad to see you are a good sport.But seriously, take off your tool belt next time you are working around the conveyor.You also don't need to be wearing it the next time you have to hump 60 sheets of 5/8 up the ladder or even up the stairs to the 2nd floor. Work smarter not harder, Stephen
*Advice appreciated and taken.
*Well guy's I'm tring to redo this roof and since the weather won't help. Maybe next week
*
After doing a few reroofs over the last few years, here"s the question: Do you feel ok after installing 1/2 or7/16 osb with clips(or with out) on roofs?
*Further info: This morning I looked at a bank job(repo) the house is 10 years old and the roof is very soft (springie feeling). Retiring to the attic I was surprized to find 1/2 osb panels spaced and clips installed with no sign of water or rot. Roof was truss and in great ship no signs of damage. Returned to the roof and pulled a string. You could see where the roof had settled down between the roof trusses. Your thoughts? Nail pattern? We'll do a tear off and re shingle once weather clears