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Discussion Forum

pneumatic nailing of hardwood floorin…

| Posted in General Discussion on May 31, 1999 04:11am

*
OK…guys..give me flak on this oneLOL…Everybody has their preferences. I used a Stanley Bostich that shot 2″ finish nails in areas the pneumatic flooring nailer wouldn’t get to and the areas where top nailing was the only resort. I forget the guage, but similiar to any 4 p finish nail. I just didn’t like the look and that’s one reason why I gave up on the powernail top nailer. I’ve found using the bostich pin nailer to be an excellant choice, and it holds just as well leaving a minimal hole to fill as well.

Next. btw…Good Luck Tom

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  1. Ken_fisher | May 31, 1999 04:11pm | #1

    *
    OK...guys..give me flak on this oneLOL...Everybody has their preferences. I used a Stanley Bostich that shot 2" finish nails in areas the pneumatic flooring nailer wouldn't get to and the areas where top nailing was the only resort. I forget the guage, but similiar to any 4 p finish nail. I just didn't like the look and that's one reason why I gave up on the powernail top nailer. I've found using the bostich pin nailer to be an excellant choice, and it holds just as well leaving a minimal hole to fill as well.

    Next. btw...Good Luck Tom

  2. Guest_ | May 31, 1999 05:27pm | #2

    *
    Tom, Senco and Primatech both make a barbed-nail 2 inch angled pneumatic flooring nailer. One uses "L" head nails, the other "T" heads. Retail: $600 each, plus nails, plus compressor and hose.
    Why not buy a manual flooring nailer? Bostich, Port-a-Nails, Senco, Primatech all make them with retail going under $250 for the basic units. Nails are $15 per box of 1000 and you'll need 5 or 6 boxes minimum. And a chop saw, and some finish nails. (The first and last few courses must be face nailed, the remaining get angle nailed... but you probably knew that already.) You'd need to do the same with the angle pneumatic nailers.

  3. G.LaLonde | May 31, 1999 06:12pm | #3

    *
    Tom, I would definitely not install this floor the way you describe. A flooring nailer or stapler not only fastens the flooring but also tightens up the joints as you strike it. If you don't do this, you will end up with loose joints and a bad look. I use a Bostitch finish nailer with 2 1/2" nails on the last few boards, but I also have a tool I made that really compresses the boards before I nail them. It slips under the drywall and against the wall plate and ratchets inward.

    You can buy an air flooring stapler or nailer from any discount tool supply for $550-$600 and re-sell it when you are done....or buy a hand nailer as George suggested and do the same thing. Look for a flooring manufacturer in your area that may sell direct and has tools. There are three of them within 75 miles of my home and they all let you use their manual nailers for nothing. Whatever you do, use the right tool for the job or you will be very disappointed with the end result.

    1. Carlos_ | May 31, 1999 06:25pm | #4

      *Check with lumber liquidators. They have a web site (www.lumberliquidators.com ??) They'll ship to most places and not collect sales tax from you, which should offset the shipping charge. I think they were selling the bostich floor stapler for about $375. Of course, you'd need a compressor too. I'd say buy the nailer and once you're done sell it used, which is what I plan to do. I have about 3000 sq feet to do, and I'd rather buy the hardwood and put it in myself than pay for more carpeting. Keep the compressor, though. You can always find uses for a compressor.

      1. KEN_ | Jun 01, 1999 05:21pm | #5

        *Tom,My wife and I face a similar project. Just started on the first room. I had a compressor and a finish nailer for the face nailing of the first and last few rows of 3 and 1/4 prefinished 3/4 oak floor. purchased the Taughton Press hardwood flooring book and studied it. Talked to people who have used the manual-Portanailer-and watched a professional install a hardwood floor in a new house in my neighborhood. Budget is tight and we are buying only two rooms of flooring at a time from our local Lumberliquidators. Have particle board subfloor on the joists so have to remove it and replace it with same thickness-3/4 tongue and groove plywood. Have framing nailer for that. My wife and I looked into renting. Not a good idea for us as we will have to work a little at a time-too many rental days. Manual nailers are $25 a day here in Philly. Pneumatic nailers with out compressors are $50 a day. I researched the subject and we decided to purchase a pneumatic nailer and sell it a year or so down the road when we are finished. My wife is letting me keep the finish and framing nailer-she uses them too.The nailer I purchased for less than $600 is a Senco SHF50. This is a machine made by the canadian firm which also makes the Permatech models. It uses only the L shaped cleats (also sold by Senco about $12.50 per 1000 2 inch long. The Senco has an additional safety and the Permatech can use the L and the T shaped cleats. Have run about 300 nails through it and it works fine. The hammer just has to be raised and then relax the hand and let it fall. Besided Senco and Permatech there is an american made model sold by Powernail. I decided against the Stanley Bostich's-which sell more at Home Depot than my Senco as while they are pneumatic they use a staple. One of the companies-either powernailer or permatech offers a conversion kit to convert the Bostitch stapler to a nailer--. I don't like staples as I have seen where the tongue has been split as the crown does not allow the wood to expand and contract. Anyway the main reason I chose a pneumatic is that they are easier to use than a manual-Check the pneumatics out and when your done with it sell it to your local rental center. By the way all my nailguns are senco and while I don't use them everyday I purchased them on the recommendation of several contractors. They are well made and parts are available and ordinary maintenance is easily done by the owner. I usually buy my tools at Toolcrib of the North but they don't carry the new Senco SHF50 floor nailer. Check Out Senco's website they will help you find a dealer near you. Good luckKen & Pat

  4. Guest_ | Jun 01, 1999 06:22pm | #6

    *
    I have found that the Manual flooring nailers are affordable enough for limited work, however, my lumber yard does give free rental of their nailers whenever I buy flooring from them. I usually get t&g spruce or pine for porch rebuilds.

    Pete Draganic

    1. Guest_ | Jun 02, 1999 05:12am | #7

      *Thank you all folks, Ken Fisher, George, G. Lalonde, Carlos, Ken and Pat, and Pete. I am much impressed and overwhelmed by all the informations and insights you people provided. As Lalonde said, using the right tool for the right job is one of the most important aspects of any undertaking. I have one question for your comment though. As you mentioned, the nailer has to serve two purposes, to holder the strip flooring down and to tighten the joints between neighbouring strips, and I don't think anybody would dispute that. So theoretically a manual angled floor nailer would give tighter joints than a pneumatically driven angled nailer. Does anybody who uses both notice the difference? Finally, Pat and Ken, you made me feel good that I am not the only one in this world who does hardwood flooring one room at a time.

  5. Ken_fisher | Jun 02, 1999 04:45pm | #8

    *
    Tom:

    It's not necessarily the type of nailer, pneumatic or manual, that will get a "tighter" floor. Hopefully you have some quality milled Maple that fits nicely, otherwise you'll find youself battling with trying to get the floor tight. It's the force of the maul(mallet) that may play the part here.

    Case in point. As an installer for a living ...Example: 500 sf of quality milled Maple 3 1/4" width may take me 8 hours to install(square room- wide open) whearas the same square footage in a cheaper lower grade would take 11 or more. Some boards just won't go together so you may find yourself pulling up and throwing away.

    You may also look into the use of a "wally wall puller" when you get up against walls.. Here's another tip. Use the straightest boards when starting the first three rows...and likewise in the last three rows. You'll find you can't whack these very tight in those areas.

    Any other good tips for Tom?

  6. Guest_ | Jun 04, 1999 08:45am | #9

    *
    Thank you Ken. Points well taken. I know some floor installers can set the straightness of the courses as they go along by varying the force on each blow of the mallet. Who says floor installations cannot be an art?

  7. G80104_ | Jun 04, 1999 09:06am | #10

    *
    Tom ,
    Have you checked to see what a floor guy would install the wood for? Going rate for the installers is .45-.55 a ft. the companys charge a buck a foot.
    The guys that do it every day make it look easy . If you do it your self , Have fun & keep loading nails!!!!

  8. Guest_ | Jun 04, 1999 02:26pm | #11

    *
    The manual floor nailer (no exp. w/ pneumatic) does inded pull the floor tighter. I just installed a new kitchen floor to match an old dining room floor (3/4 x 2 1/4 oak). Laid the first course dead in line and parallel with the old floor. After about 12 courses I re-checked for parallel: still dead on. And still perpendicular to the transition strip I laid between new and old floors. But that last course was about 1/2" less across the room than the 12th course in the old floor. Strips same size.

    That said, the old floor was laid in '38 and it and rest of house have looked and performed well. I think those old floors were all hand nailed with cut, hardened nails.

    From the number of posts suggesting you buy the pneumatic nailer and then sell it when done you might think others have done the same. Maybe you can buy someone else's with 1,000 SF on it. Flea markets? Flooring supplier? Classified ads?

  9. Ken_fisher | Jun 04, 1999 04:12pm | #12

    *
    G8:

    .55 per sf? Are you serious? Where is that rate being paid? I won't touch any install for under $1.50. I know some guys in North Carolina that get only .75 and I thought that was cheap.

    1. Ken_fisher | Jun 04, 1999 04:15pm | #13

      *I've seen both pnuematic and manual flooring nailers in pawn shops...Just a thought...They're there but hard to find.

      1. StevenH_ | Jun 05, 1999 06:24am | #14

        *I finally got around to using a pneumatic floor nailer this spring after pounding too many nails with my hand-sledge powered PortaNailer. I'm real happy with how the rented pneumatic Primatech worked. It was about $75/week here in Almost West-Virginia, but I have my own compressor (from Home Despot, but that's another story...) I could nail flooring for hours without wearing out my shoulder like the PortaNailer. The Primatech sucked up the gaps in the boards as tight as the PortaNailer ever did - - but both kinds still needed clamping or wedging for the really troublesome spots. Nailing flooring the new way was almost fun and so much easier and faster. I used a Bostitch trim nailer where I couldn't reach with the Primatech.

        1. G80104_ | Jun 05, 1999 08:48am | #15

          *Ken this is the rate the large flooring companys pay their installers in the Denver area. The companys our doing 15,000-20,000 sq. ft a week. We do 600-800 units a year & I see many an invoice. The guys finishing the floors don't make much more per sq. ft. The Guys that do final coat get about .25 a foot to screen , $30 min if its a small area like an entry. Must companys let the guys take the vans that they drive home @ the end of the day. On a good week the guys make up to $ 1800 but they earn it !

          1. Ken_fisher | Jun 05, 1999 04:43pm | #16

            *That calculates to 3600 sf per week! Wow! I'd be so worn out I'd be sleeping all weekend. Are they installing wide plank flooring? I got a quote from somebody in the Boulder area about a year ago whereby they were paying $2.50-3.00 for skilled installers as there was a lack of them in the area.Speaking of shortage of skilled... there are two brothers in my area that get $2.50 per sf for finishing floors new construction. They're so booked it's unreal, but then there's a shortage and I've come into contact with a few that have recently moved into the area that are selling all their equipment after they begin working for the wrong flooring contractors who don't pay more than $1.25 per sf.Thanks For The Info

  10. Guest_ | Jun 06, 1999 09:48am | #17

    *
    There is a project that I am going to
    undertake and I like to have some opinions about the right tool for the project. It involves installing
    1000 sq.ft. of 3/4 in. prefinished 3 1/4 maple flooring in five different rooms. Because I am living
    in the house right now so I will have to do one room at a time to accommodate the moving
    around of furnitures. I have a compressor and I plan to do the project with a pneumatic nailer.
    The proper tool for this is a $800 angled hardwood floor stapler and to rent it five times
    will cost me about $400 plus travelling back and forth. Since I need a finish nailer anyway, I
    wonder if there is a finish nailer on the market that will do the job. I know that you can hand nail
    with 2 1/4 case-harded finishing nails, and there is a finish nailer design for 3/8 flooring. I would
    appreciate it if somebody can shed some light on the subject.

  11. Guest_ | Jun 06, 1999 09:48am | #18

    *
    Thank you for answering my concern about the tightness of floors nailed with a pneumatic nailer. My original thinking of using a pneumatic nailer was to let the air do the work. I guess you are now going to buy yourself a Primatech.

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