Pneumatic Vs. Electric sanders
GoldenWreckedAngle
| Posted in Tools for Home Building on
I’m in the market for a random orbital sander.
I will be using the tool for wet and dry sanding on wood, metal and possibly concrete finishes but primarily for dry sanding on wood.
Is there a reason pneumatic tools are not more widely adopted by wood workers? I’ve got my eye on a Bosh and a handful of pneumatic alternatives.
Kevin Halliburton
“The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, … they relived the actor’s speeches by such intermissions.” Vitruvious, (Book V)
Replies
I personally think that air-driven sanders, inline and random-orbit, are the greatest thing since Seven-Up; however, until recently, pneumatic tools have been foreign territory for most wood-workers. And I'm going to guess that one of the main reasons is air-consumption: some of these RO sanders chew up around 10CFM, and that's way beyond what most portable compressors can deliver. And sanders don't get used in short bursts either, you need a compressor that can deliver that sort of volume for 10-15 shots and keep it up almost continuously for hours.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Air supply required. Shop compressor 5HP 440V 3ph with a 60 gallon tank could not keep up with 2, 1 running would keep it cycling.
I'd guess the electrical comsumption to be kinda pricey just to run a handheld orbital, but they do work nice.
Joe H
ditto to Phill and Joe's comments.
Have 3 or 4 electric orbitals/straight line that never get used, always use the 5" air orbital . Big rough jobs electrical thugh - a 4" min belt sander or 9' angle grinder with sanding disk.
Ok, I guess that makes sense. My compressor is (over) rated for 6HP- 9 CFM @ 90PSI with a 30 gallon +/- vertical tank. The Ingersol Rand ROS I'm favoring calls for 8 CFM @ 90PSI to keep it rolling at 10,000 rpm so I can see that a days worth of sanding would put a pretty major strain on the compressor.
First order of business is finishing a house full of exposed ceiling joists. That's going to be a couple of days worth of solid sanding right there. I'm gonna get tired of holding that 4" Rockwell belt sander over my head pretty quick.
I used a lot of pneumatic rotary tools when I was working bronze and they were sweet, but now that I think about it they were all run by a VW bus sized 3 phase. That probably made all the difference in the world.
Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
Edited 7/16/2004 11:25 am ET by Golden Wrecked Angle
GWA,
I recently purchased one of these:
View Image
Ingersoll-Rand 4151. By far the best DA on the market. Very light weight, and powerful. Everybody at work keeps borrowing it from me, It's that good. You can also hook a vacuum up to it. I tried and it works real well.
As far as air consumption goes, it's not that bad, CFM requirements aside. At home, my 7.5HP two stage cycles I'd say at a 20% to 30% duty cycle running it @ 90PSI. Add a 10' FlexEel hose whip and you're set.
Jon
That looks like a nice sander. I should have mentioned that I'm spending a Lowes gift certificate that I got for my birthday. I could buy something, take it back for a refund and shop elsewhere but here is the Ingersol Rand they carry that I have my eye on.
http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=221120-28309-300G
It looks like the little brother to yours.Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
"It looks like the little brother to yours.'
GWR,
Actually, it look's almost like mine except for the different model #, Color of the trigger, and price, as mine was about $130.
"why do the handled versions seem to take so much less air than the palm versions?"
They don't, and often those CFM ratings are not all that accurate.
Assuming my compressor is putting out the rated 24CFM @ 175PSI and cycling the way it does using the IR, it's using 6 to 8 CFM. I've seen the cheap imports call for up to 16CFM. I can't fathom how a tool like that could use that much air. BTW, the [4151 IR] is oilless, nice feature.
Jon
one word, trust me on this
SOUIX..
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
As long as they are the US made........
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
well, the Souix were here first..lol
best damn sander I ever used..I really don't care who or where it comes from..awesome
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
They have off shore mfg too... Not nearly as good...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
Dynabrade...or Sioux....Sioux for drills/drivers.
Another factor is the cost....I can buy at least three electrics for one quality pneumatic....and then you have to decide what size orbit you want, for roughing or finishing, or buy both. Easier with the electric; you takes what you're given. But they are the bomb, and they do a great job.
Got two great big screw compressors feeding my shop, and this thread reminded me I NEED MORE AIR.cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
Thanks Adrian - I'll look at the Dynabrade too.
Have any of you had a problem with the pneumatic oil blowing out the exhaust on your freshly sanded and ready to finish wood? I would think you might want to oil it up and run it for a while before you started sanding your finished piece.Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
One other thing - why do the handled versions seem to take so much less air than the palm versions? This is the style I used to use for auto body work.
http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=221119-28309-311G
The palm grip is definitely more comfortable.Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
"one word, trust me on this
SOUIX.."
Duane,
In it's day the Souix was great (I've used 'um), but compared to the IR, it's heavier, bulkier, and uses more air, and costs more to buy and operate.
Sorry,
Jon
Thanks,
This is all I can find online:
Sioux 890HP 5" Ultra-Life Random Orbit Air Sander Product Features:
Lightweight ergonomically designed composite housing weighs only 1.7 pounds
Quiet operation at 78 decibels
Greater power-to-weight ratio provides more productivity
Multi-faced grip for comfort and greater control
Can you tell me how much air that little guy wants?Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
That model is rated at 18 CFM..others are 20. Dynabrades are mostly in the 15-16 range....(I have both catalogues open here in front of me). Dynabrade is using SCFM (standard cubic feet per minute) and rates one of their tools at 16scfm (2.3 cfm) , while the Sioux just says CFM, but I think they are actually using SCFM....unless I'm making a mistake somewhere, could be, I'm not very expert in that area.
cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
Edited 7/16/2004 10:58 am ET by Adrian
Thanks. I honestly didn't realise there were different air flow ratings.
16 to 20 CFM!!!!? If that is the same as the CFM rating on my compressor I'm in way over my head with Dynabrade and Sioux both. Looks like I could use a little education here.
While you have that catalog handy, does Sioux make a different pneumatic palm sander? I checked all my tool links and that was the only model I could find.Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
They make the 890 series, in HP (3/16 orbit), and F (3/32 orbit, for finer finish), and with or without vacuum.
They also have a 600 and a 700 series, which only come in 3/16, and have a higher air consumption.
re: air consumption....Dynabrade has a little side bar on air consumption in their print catalogue; it's not on the website, and I don't have time to type it all out. And I'm weaker than I should be on the theory, but I'm sure there are people here that know more than me...here are a couple of things from that sidebar: 'air consumption' is an averaged maximum rating recorded at free speed on non-governed tools, expressed as SCFM....standard cubic feet per minute....it is usually sufficient to compare this rating directly with the compressors inlet CFM rating to determine how many tools that compressor will run.... if the compressor has more storage tanks, you can go farther (I'm paraphrasing). Typical airflow for a RO sander is 15 scfm (2.1CFM@90 PSIG)....if you compare the 15scfm to the compressor inlet CFM, and go at least 1:1, you'll be okay.....if you 2.1 cfm and match that to a compressor's cfm rating, you'll be drastically under sized?
Clear? (I'll let an engineer put that into language I can understand....standing by...I think I have the basic idea, but...)cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
Thanks Adrian - that was very informative. I appreciate all the time you invested in answering my questions. You introduced another element I hadn't considered with the orbit specs. Learned several new things here - Ah-pree-shate-cha!
I've done some careful calculations and have decided that the answer is to buy the dang sander and keep my receipt handy until I determine if my compressor can handle it and if I like the feel and finish of it. <G>Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
Ya know....those things are usually sold through reps to the trade....mine has a travelling case with a demo of each tool.....you might have someone nearby that could bring in both sanders, and you could give it a whirl.cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
You know, I've seen a lot of dog and pony shows in our architectural office but never a tool rep... That might be kind of fun!
Thanks for the suggestion but I don't think I'm in the target market that usually gets that kind of service. <G>Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
The one thing that has not been mentioned yet is that compressed air cost a lot of money! I have worked as a manufacturing engineer and we always had to be careful with compressed air usage. I like air tools if you try to take away my air drill you will have a fight on your hands. But a sander will keep a smaller compressor running all of the time and the electrical costs alone will be much higher. A electrical sander uses 5-8 amps and the compressor uses 20 or more amps. If you end up using a sander on more than a occasional basis you are going to see your electrical bill go up.
I think it was mentioned, but it's a valid point that bears repeating.Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
Why can't you use a 5" electric RO sander with 40 or 60 grit paper rather than the belt sander?
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Well, I can - if I buy one.
The point of this inquiry is that I'm looking for an alternative to having to hold that monstrosity over my head all day.Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
I don't remember exactly, 16 cfm comes to mind..we ran 8 of em all day long at a guitar shop, and the paint room ran a pair too..no problems with our 80 gal 5hp. comp.
of course we had the comp. running ALL day..vacuum jigs, blow guns, air assisted wide belt sander, and the paint room running a spray gun.
Those CFM #'s are not real accurate.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Thanks Sphere - Sounds like my compressor could probably handle the job. Worst case, I'll need to add another storage tank but I've been considering a detachable secondary tank for the home shop anyway.Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)