Replies

1. 
   booch | Feb 19, 2003 10:54pm | #1

   Pocket door frames are available premade from the box stores and are pretty good. Certainly better than you could build the first time.

   Putting it in requires looking at the framing and making sure the wall is secure as possible. It will probably involve making a "header" To bridge the pocket door frame opening. Tell us your placement for specific suggestions.

   I glued & screwed mine in the framing with  PL200 adhesive. Then when Drywall comes in, you bridge all framing joints with the drywall sheets horizontally and glue that onto the pocket door framing as well.

   This is more Skin construction (torsion box) than traditional stick framing. It is sort of like an airplane floor or wing construction.

   Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?
2. 
   calvin | Feb 20, 2003 12:33am | #2

   http://www.johnsonhardware.com/pdindex.htm

   Here's a link to Johnson Hardware, the pocket door page.  Leaf through the descriptions, maybe explore for the installation instructions to get an idea what's entailed.  Follow them to a T as guys have been known to install the head outta level, making a nice even install impossible and even nailed the door with sheetrock and trim fastening.   Especially check out the install for a 2x6 wall if you have the room.  Drywall/trim fastening, electric and the stiffness of the wall are things that it will help with.  Tips, don't nail the trim to the removable jamb at the top or you'll be unable to remove the jamb head for adjustment and  door removal, make sure the door you use isn't overweight for the hardware you use or warped so it won't fit in the hole, don't nail the door open and cut the header length properly so you stop the door in the hole where it's supposed to.  Don't buy crap hardware, nor too light wt of hardware.  best of luck.

   __________________________________________

   Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

   http://www.quittintime.com/

3. 
   stossel1 | Feb 20, 2003 03:44am | #3

                  for your framing double the size of your door plus an inch. For example a 30" door needs a 61" opening. 7' to bottom of your header should give you plenty of room to get your track in , piece of cake. good luck'

4. 
   bd342 | Feb 20, 2003 04:18am | #4

   A big second on Calvin's post .

   I've been using the Johnsons for the last 5 years and have been very pleased with the product.

5. 
   RW | Feb 20, 2003 06:03am | #5

   Might also consider widening the wall to a 2x6. Gives you more working room, and rather than the chincy little metal cleats that come in most pre fab pocket hardware setups, you can stand 2x4's sideways for nailers. Heard of some guys going as far as engineered 2x4's for rigidity.

   " To the noble mind / Rich gifts wax poor when givers prove unkind" - Wm Shakespeare, Hamlet, III,i,100

6. 
   CAGIV | Feb 20, 2003 09:53am | #6

   Free tip :)

   Don't put a screw through the drywall into the door.

   Seen a guy do that then mud over the holes.  It took 15 minutes to figure out why the hell the door wouldn't come out of the whole, ruined the door and drywall had to be redone.  What the hell he was using 2" screw for was never figured out.

   View ImageGo Jayhawks
7. 
   Turtleneck | Feb 20, 2003 11:55am | #7

   There have been some lengthy discussions on this topic and there were some exceptional pocket hardware companies mentioned.  Johnson and Stanley are okay but they don't make the real good list. I've installed dozens of them and quite frankly I'm sick of them. I vow to never install a pocket door in my present or future homes.

    Turtleneck

   I would rather go to bed with Lillian Russel stark naked. than with Ulysses S. Grant in full military regalia. - Samuel Clemens

1. 
   ProBozo | Feb 20, 2003 05:13pm | #8

   We had two pocket doors in our old house.  In 30 years of living there, I can only recall the doors being closed just ONE time.  Anybody ere actually use a pocket door in their home?

1. 
   ripmeister | Feb 20, 2003 06:52pm | #10

   Thanks all  for your replies.  This actually is a situation where the door  will be used as it will be to a half-bath.  I checked out the Johnson site and it appears from what I've seen and your coments that I basically build a wall with a roughed in door opening that is twice the size needed.  I guess you then place the DW over half of this opening, essentially creating a void between sheets of DW.  Is this correct, and if it is do the jamb kits give you some way to  attach the edge of the DW at the actual door opening since there is no framing there?  I'm  sure this is simpler than I make it out to be but I'm just not seeing it yet.

1. 
   PeteBradley | Feb 20, 2003 07:21pm | #11

   There is framing at the edge of the door opening.  With the Johnson (and I assume Stanley) kit, it's a pair of steel-clad studs from the kit.  You're gonna have to trim it out once the door goes in of course.

   I just put one in (Johnson kit).  Pissed myself off by getting the track all leveled and nailed down, then discovered I'd put it up backwards.  Outside of that, it went up just fine.

   Pete

2. 
   Turtleneck | Feb 20, 2003 08:23pm | #13

   One builder I install for just goes nuts with the pocket doors. Ensuites, Laundryrooms, Closets, and Pantries. How stupid can you be to put a pocket door on a pantry? I wish those Hippie beads would make a comeback. Turtleneck

   I would rather go to bed with Lillian Russel stark naked. than with Ulysses S. Grant in full military regalia. - Samuel Clemens

3. 
   aimless | Feb 20, 2003 08:29pm | #14

   Yes. We have 6 foot pocket doors going into my office. Most of the time they are open to get a less claustrophic feel, but when I'm on a call and the living room is being used, they get closed. I love them. My only problem with them is the 12 feet of door and wall space that can't have an electric outlet. But as a way to have that open feeling and still have real rooms that can be closed off I think they are exceptional.

1. 
   bd342 | Feb 21, 2003 02:12am | #15

   2x6 walls !!!!!!

2. 
   ripmeister | Feb 20, 2003 06:43pm | #9

   Who does make the real good list? 

1. 
   Turtleneck | Feb 20, 2003 08:14pm | #12

   Hafele is a German manufacturer, they are the Cadillacs of pocket door hardware. You'll have to do your own web search to find availability and price. Turtleneck

   I would rather go to bed with Lillian Russel stark naked. than with Ulysses S. Grant in full military regalia. - Samuel Clemens

8. 
   dljefferson | Feb 21, 2003 03:42am | #16

   I agree with everyone who suggested 2 x 6 walls.  With Hafele hardware, they'd be awesome.

   -Dave

1. 
   Piffin | Feb 21, 2003 04:52am | #17

   I never understood how this topic can get so emotional.

   I have used over fifty Johnson pockets in high end hoimes and never had a customer complain. Most of them love the things.

   I have two in my house and they do get used about as much as any swing door - oops - make that three. One of them gets used so little that I forgot that it was there.

   ;)

   I also don't understand how the 2x6 is any better. two by's can warp and bind the door. I've never had that with the steel clad studs that come in the kit.

   Admission time - I was trimming out one with half a dozen pockets in the suite. After about five door sides, my mind went on a little trip. Between casing and baseboard, I must have stuck twenty 15ga 2-1/2" nails into the side of that door. Good thing it was painted! A few hours with bondo and paint took care of it. Anybody else own up to learning that one the hard way?

   Haefelle is great stuff so I'm sure there's is better than Johnson but I do like the Johnson and can get it easy.

   .

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   Snort | Feb 21, 2003 05:44am | #19

   I've put in at least 300 pocket doors, I hate 'em. Seems like most framers give this job to the new guys, then there's the sheetrockers who use 1 1/4" screws. It's the best reason to use 2x framing. I can't remember when I didn't have to back their screws out and and then file down the bumps on the metal studs. And I have nailed at least one door open;-) and everybody that I've worked with has, too, although nobody ever admits to it. Even when we're pulling 2 1/2" nails out of base, they'll swear to God they didn't do it...that could be another case for 2x walls if you were really looking for a reason...and, if you're doing double doors, only add an inch to the nominal size, NOT 2"!!! And, out of all these alleged doors that I have hung, I'll bet that no more than 5 had to be pocket doors. Can you tell that I intensely dislike these these poor misunderstood openings ? And while I haven't used anything better, Johnson is okay, but Stanley sucks so badly I refuse to use it. EliphIno!

1. 
   Piffin | Feb 21, 2003 08:44am | #20

   That casts some light on it!

   I'm with you on Stanley. I've never used their Pocket hardware but I have hung a couple of their swings and think that they are wasting peoples money on them..

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   wrick2003 | Feb 21, 2003 04:30pm | #21

   we always frame our heavy solid pocket doors with a 1/2" plate, 2x studs, and the heavy duty stanley tracks and rollers.  the stud depth accomodates electrical boxes, and you can use 1 5/8 sr screws.  

   for light hollow cores with no electrical, and if the customer isn't picky, the kits are usually enough, though they don't give you much to work with.

2. 
   Snort | Feb 23, 2003 02:55am | #22

   Folks want pocket doors, I've got to put them in...Stanley regular hardware is crap...I'll go checkout out their heavy duty, thanks.

   But you know, I hate it when I have to ask for the stuff that really works! EliphIno!

3. 
   Snort | Feb 23, 2003 02:57am | #23

   Duhh, I just saw you were hanging hollow cores... EliphIno!

2. 
   ronbudgell | Feb 23, 2003 03:53am | #24

   Who hasn't put a nail in one? Let him cast the first cats paw.

   I will willingly install Crowder hardware. You have to pay for it but you only have to pay once.

   Crowder is an Ontario company but they have a couple of plants in the US I believe.

9. 
   SteveInCleveland | Feb 21, 2003 05:13am | #18

   I hope this helps:

   The following is taken from JLC’s “TOOLS OF THE TRADE”, volume 1, Issue 1 from the Summer of 1993:

    

   I've found the biscuit-joiner handy for making frames on site for all pocket doors in 2x4 walls.  I rip up a good, flat piece of 3/4-inch plywood into 6-inch strips and build two ladder-type frames, securing the joints with biscuits.  These two ladders are then joined by top and bottom “plates” also ripped from plywood. The top plate extends across the door opening to make a continuous runner for the door track.  The frame is quite rigid, but allows easy access for installing the tracks and door.  The frame also provides a nailer for wallboard and trim.  You can build it on site in about an hour.  (SEE ATTACHED PHOTO).

   
1. 
   ripmeister | Feb 25, 2003 03:29am | #25

   I didn't realize I was opening such a can of worms regarding the merits or lack there or when it comes to pocket doors.  Anyway thank you all for your insights and advice.  I think when it comes time to install this puppy I'll shoot one nail and then check to see that the door moves smoothly and then proceed in like fashion. 

10. 
    baseboardking | Mar 01, 2003 01:37am | #26

    A wise man once said..

       "friends don't let friends use pocket doors"

    A wiser man pulled his son close on his deathbed and whispered...

       "life's too short for pocket doors"

    If you have to use them, Johnson track & hardware, throw away the studs with the kit & frame the thing with a full 2x4 on each side.

    Baseboard been VERRRY good to me
1. 
   Boxduh | Mar 01, 2003 02:14am | #27

   I think I'll do mine this way.  It is in just a short run of wall.  I will use the Johnson kit, including the steel-cased wood studs that come in the complete kit.  The adjoining walls and header we'll frame with 2x6 stock, all ripped to about 5".  When we install the Johnson kit, we will sheet the pocket, both sides, with 3/4" plywood, bringing the pocket faces out to the adjoining stud faces.  The entire thing will gypboard and trim up just fine, and we will have less worry about long screws or trim nails penetrating into the pocket or the door inside.  Johnson makes two kits, one with a lighter duty track and roller set, and the other with heavier-duty parts.  The difference in kits is meant to address door weights only; both kits come with the same studs.  In my case the door is a solid-core one, and the light duty kit will work fine, being for doors up to (I think) 100 pounds.  My door is about 65 pounds.