I’m looking for opinions on the use of pocket doors in a new house design. Aspects to cover are practicality in daily use vs. swing-open (ease of passage, location of switches, etc), long-term durability, likelihood of getting a “good” install by builder.
One advantage, obviously, is that a pocket door avoids some furniture placement problems.
Two disadvantages I see are:
(a) One can’t pass through a pocket door opening until the door has been slid out of the way, whereas a swing door can be moved open while passing through in one direction.
(b) A pocket door must be set into motion to open it (well, that part is the same), but its motion must be arrested gently at the end, to avoid a bang as it hits a stop inside the wall. With a swing door, with a handle to grab onto for opening, the motion is stopped more easily than using a recessed grab opening (at least that has been my experience).
OK, let’s here the opinions.
Edited 4/30/2008 11:36 am ET by DickRussell
Replies
I love pocket doors but...
You forgot to mention the drawback of someone nailing the door shut when trying to hang a picture with too long a nail.
You also forgot to mention that load bearing walls holding pocket doors must be thicker than conventional walls to accomodate the door. Obviously the degree to which this matters depends on the application.
I believe I saw hardware once that effectively cushioned the blow of the door closing. You can also accomplish this with a sealed pocket that uses the air behind the door to dampen it's closing force somewhat.
IMHO, there's nothing nicer than a custom double pocket door leading into a room.
Edited 4/30/2008 11:49 am ET by WindowsGuy
I have not come across the situation yet where a header could not be planned to handle the pocket door. Does not need wider walls.
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Hence the disclaimer regarding application in my post...
In new construction, bigger headers are no issue. In retrofits however, expanding the wall dimension by 2" can be much easier than opening up the pocket for the bigger header et al.
As always YMMV.
edit: Forgot to mention that a thicker wall can also accomodate wiring.
Edited 4/30/2008 2:22 pm ET by WindowsGuy
Always felt pocket doors were for occasional use.
I have two in my house, strategically located in places where they are normally open, but can be closed (at entrance to kitchen from hall, and master bedroom closet). I am satisfied with them.
I wish I had another one or two, but switches, ducts, appliances, etc., made them impractical.
I wouldn't want one in a doorway that was opened and closed frequently.
I agree with that. I have three. Two are on an anteroom and a laundry off the kitchen that usually stay open unless we have company.
The third is on the bedroom and it can be a pain to use too often.
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Here's a set going into a bedroom. We usually keep them closed, but we like the added light and swinging doors would have been impractical.
any chance you can do a save as Jpeg to reduce the size of that and repost it?
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How's this?
ataboy!;)Who gets to hang from that hook for the nights sleep?
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It just seemed crazy not to be able to hang something from the cupola. We had a big kite for a while.
My goodness, that is art!
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I've never saw a pocket door I liked until I looked at yours! Nice work. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I've posted these before, but here's my two favorites, both in the same house. There were 3 with the glass inserts. If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
Very cool. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
The glass is great . Here are my favorites , but only because I made them up out of 4 separate doors and some cheap cherry 3/8 ply. Each door is 6' wide and 7' tall. They go into a common pocket.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Nice job, must have been quite the header!You build the doors too? fir? They are beautiful and fit the space nicely
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Thanks. No. The individual doors were off the shelf standard doors. I had to come up with something that was inexpensive as this was pretty much a donation or break even job for a man who was dieing of Lou Gehrig's disease. The Quotes I had gotten for building doors was way off the scale for what could be afforded. The hardest part of the job was figuring how use off the shelf stock and then make it work . I ordered stock 3 x 7 Fir Panel doors without panels, ripped them to size along adjoining stiles so that the ripped stiles when joined would be the same width as the outside stiles were. Joined them with biscuits,glue and long screws, then made up panels and the stops.
Header is a 24' "zero" camber glue-lam wrapped in CVG Fir. They were meant to function as a room divider between what became the mans death bed and the rest of the house. They afforded privacy for him but then could be open so he could take part in family goings on when he choose.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Very nice, petite too<G> The sliding wall effect is neat.Same house with the glass door has been waiting about nine months for some 4x8 converging doors, special ordered from Germany. They arrived twice, both times bunged up in shipping. Doors from living room to owner's bedroom, and it's a very open floorplan... Shoulda talked to you<G> If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
Aesthetically, if you line up all your door frame headers at the same height--typically 80" above finished floor--then your pocket door will end up being about 77" or so.
Conversely, if you hold the door to 80" height, then your header will be 3-4" taller than other door frames in the house.
Just a thought.
I don't have that extreme of a problem.Frame to 6'10-1/2" above subfloor.
Pocket track is 2-1/4" Sometimes need to trim door 1/2"
Swing doors get elevated a bit when setting so they don't drag.Casing trim works out same location
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I you have a space problem, use the PD to increase the usable. If you don't, go with the swing. Much less potential problems. The stops provided with the Johnson hardware don't "bang." If you want to hang heavy pics or mirrors on that wall, use 1/2" MDF instead of sheet rock.
Occam's razor is a wonderous design tool...
If you are concerned about the impact when you open the door, take a look at the Hawa brand of sliding door tracks. http://www.hawa.ch/hawa/index.php?L=1
Hafele is a distributor for the Hawa hardware. One track will cost you around $1000: http://www.hafele.com/us/services/4455.asp
KN Crowder and Johnson Hardware are other manufacturers that are reasonably priced. KN Crowder is the one I used and its very good quality hardware. You can make your own bumpers with any material you want to soften the impact.
WindowsGuy is right, there's nothing nicer than a custom double "French" pocket door leading into a room.
They are not as convenient to operate as a swinging door. As such, i personally would not use them in a high traffic area. In my case, our living room was not getting much use because it was isolated from the rest of the house. I therefore punched a hole in the wall so that we could access it from the family room. The doors remain closed most of the time but can be opened when we entertain, etc.
If the wall is load bearing, you could mount your sliding doors to the outside of the wall instead of using a true pocket door (See KN Crowder or Hawa products for surface mount hardware).
If you don't want the surface mount look, you can still follow that approach but then cover both sides with a built-in cabinet.
b is nola contendre. A bmper is installed at the back edge of the door so it does not hit hard, and a hand can be kept controlling the doors motion just as easily as with a swing door.
It can be easier to open and pass thru a swing door than a closed pocket door, depending on hardware style and which side of the door you are on.
pockets save space and help with some traffic patterns.
They offer less privacy making them inappropriate or lass appropriate for bathrooms and powder rooms. Space around lets noise pass through. Locks are also less efficient for them. So they are not a good choice where you might have an office that requires locking when not there.
The wall are for the pocket means a longer, sometimes larger header in supporting walls when framing, and location of receptacles and switches and wiring can be a problem to consider when designing.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I've been reading a book by Sarah Susanka called "Home by Design". It explains in words the design elements that make certain homes appealing. She talks about thing that are hard to describe but you just know it looks nice when you see it.
One of the elements is "Depth and Thickness" and how a thick wall can add that "something".
Anyways, when i decided to put a sliding door between my family room and my living room, I had the option of putting a traditional pocket door in a 4" or 6" thick wall. Or I could follow her advice and create some "thick" wall, even though it was not required.
So to save me the trouble of doing an actual pocket door, with a 6' long header, I decided to keep the existing wall there, put a surface mount sliding door, and then cover that with a built-in. Add recessed lights to the cabinets (which will have glass shelves) and the result is really nice..in my opinion anyways. I don't think i would have been able to achieve the same result with swinging doors
For frequently used doors I recommend Hafele 40B Junior, better to spend the money once. I made and installed full length UHMWPE floor guides inside the walls that ride in a recessed guide mortised into the bottom of the door.
Few (house) things are worse than a non or poorly functioning pocket door. Spend the money once.
ymmv
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.
- Fyodor Dostoyevski
hardware kit by Johnson.
Slick and easy.
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
I like the Johnson 2000, smooth and quiet. I also like to put them in a 2x6 wall, making the pocket out of 2x6s flatways. No worries from overzealous sheetrock hangers, easy to nail base, hang light cabs, fasten bath hardware, accommodate tees from intersecting walls, and the walls don't flop like those with the cheesy metal studs that come with the kits. If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
while pocket doors do have some advantages (space saving) they also can be a true pain. i have had several clients ask me to change their existing swing doors to a pocket type. few understand that behind those walls lie mechanical systems such as electrical wires, plumbing pipes and HVAC ductwork. before framing, ensure that everybody knows about your use of pocket doors. that way they can either reroute their systems and/or ask that the wall be made thicker to meet their needs.
After you decide about the style of the door, I'd say that the next best choice is to hunt the best rail and roller hardware you can find.
Since the pocket door can be one that is operated several times a day, money spent on the rail and rollers will fewer problems and a smoother operation.
One other issue to consider is how tight you plan to keep your tolerances. I installed a pocket door in the low humidity of winter. When summer came and the humidity came, the door would drag on the threshold. Premium hardware would tend to allow easier adjustment.
Bill
They tend to scuff up and get banged against the pocket jamb - other than that no issues here (have 3 glazed).
Jeff
The only time I can imagine that happening is when they are installed wrong, or they warp later. I've done a good hundred pockets and never seen what you describe.
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If you use the door guides that come in the pocket door kits the doors don't get scuffed up. In more than 90% of the pocket door installations I've seen it looks like the carpenter just tossed the guides, and then the door will scuff. Or make a hidden guide by cutting a slot in the bottom of the door and mounting a guide on the floor just inside the pocket.
I don't like hollow core pocket doors. Yuck. (And you better have a loud fart fan if it's a bathroom door.) At least use a solid door. Heavy pocket doors on nice track and rollers have a good feel.
Billy