Guys,
I’m wrapping a series of porch posts with AZEK. My plan was to pre-assemble three sides by pocket screwing, gluing and flush triming them smooth. Then glue & screw the last side in the field. Has anyone done this and/or have a better suggestion on how to wrap the posts? The finished size is 7×7. I’ve worked with Azek, but not wrapping posts.
Thanks.
FR
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Replies
What do the pocket screws do?
Hold the joints while the glue dries?
Mitered corners on the post wraps?
Jim
JTC,
Yes. I thought a few pockets screws would help align the boards (9 footers) during setup and hold the joints while the glue dries. I was going to use butt joints and flush trim them because the posts will be painted. I've used this method extensively on interior paint grade trim work with poplar, but never on Azek. Any thoughts on this approach and/or a good substitute for Azek. I'm in the Northeast.
FR
I've only wrapped a very few posts in Azek and that was for a neighbor just about a month ago.
The HO had a porch roof which was sagging and producing a gutter drainage problem. Roof edge was slowly jacked over a week or so until straight. Posts were new painted cedar.
I cut long mitered rips from Azek and fitted them to the post sides (think - full height baseboards). I fitted and glued two sides into "L's" before attaching to posts, fitted and attached remining sides on the posts. Glued the miters and nailed with 15 ga SS finish nails. Nails served as pins to hold miters in alignment and as attachment for the Azek to the posts.
Nail holes were filled with the Azek filler - dual tube, blends together in mixing nozzle - can't remember the name - from Azek supplier.
Dressed up the wrap with some baseboard, etc. Neighbor painted.
Can't comment of longevity of my technique as it is only a month old!
You may be disappointed with butt joints as the surface texture of the core is a little bit different from that of the factory finished faces -- try a short section complete with paint and see if you like it. It's a little different than wood...
If you decide to use butt joints --- the glue seems to adhere better if you will lightly sand the "factory face" at the glue zone - just enough to remove the gloss - 220 recommended.
I like the Azek cement as it provides a longer period for alignment than PVC plumbing cement. Plumbing version grabs too fast for my liking --- but I'm slow.
Jim Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Jim,
Thanks for your help. Two things. First, if you could not use Azek, what is your second choice of material for this project. Second, if you're Jim Chestnut, your clamps are outstanding. I have not done a casing (door, window, passthrough, etc.) in the past four years that was not bisuited and glued with your clamps. Most of the casing is 4.5 inches wide. All still as tight as the day I put them up.
Thanks.
FR
For flat stock like you need - CertainTeed and Trex both have 1x and 5/4 stock which is comparable. PVC cellular core - surfaces vary slightly, would hesitate to mix and match manufacturer's on the same job.
My normal yard just switched to Trex - have not used it yet.
I'm not Jim Chesnut, but the clamps sound good! I have Collins and some Brand X that require a special set of pliers to install / remove.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
I pre-assembled the three sides using glue and pinned them in place just for luck.
I've used both Azek and Kleer. I've not had them both in my hand at the same time, but they seemed the same.
I've used the two-part glues -- Trimbonder and Bond-and-Fill are two brands. These are gap-filling and color-matched, so you can get an invisible joint, and fill nail holes invisibly.
Azek glue, and Gorilla PVC glue -- no relation to Gorilla Glue, oddly enough -- come in a can like plumber's PVC glues, but they're water-based. I think the Azek glue might stay wet a little longer that the Gorilla, but I've not used them side by side to really tell.
Yesterday I used both types of glue. Trimbonder to laminate an exterior sill for an application about 2" above grade. The finished product looked like solid 2x stock.
To maintain minimum egress size, I'd had to use 1/2" sheet stock for the other three sides of the window, rabbeted to 3/8" where they lapped onto a custom casement unit and served as stops for the sash.
So I needed to build these sides up at their outside edges to get adequate nailing for the exterior trim. I used Azek glue to glue on scraps because it's easier and cheaper, and the joints wouldn't be seen.
I've butt-joined posts before, and JTC is right, the sheen is different. But since I find the sheen to be too glossy anyway, I go over everything with an RO sander to make it look more like wood. BTW, I always use the smooth side so it doesn’t look like fake wood.
It’s easier to build theses wraps with two guys. If I was doing one solo, I’d start by putting in “glue blocks” to help with alignment. But I wouldn’t glue the blocks in -- too slippery to keep exactly in place while I stapled them in.
AitchKay
Aitchkay,
So, if I use the trimbonder, my plan to pocket-screw, butt joint and flush-trim should work out OK? I'll sand and paint the final wrap. I leave a thumbnail of overlap so the flush trim cleans up nicely.
FR
Try a test, and use a light touch -- I think have had some problems with bearing marks.AitchKay
I wrapped some posts with Azek that had the wood grain finish on exterior side. Did not like butt joints because the edge texture was very different and I've never had good luck with long miter joints. I cut a rabbet on two of the boards almost the full thickness of the board (leaving only a sliver of the wood grain texture hanging out). Then glued them up (plus a few finish nails to hold while glue sets) the rabbet aligns the boards and the smalll sliver of edge finish is almost invisible. Those thin edges are very fragile and can crack if not handled gently during glue up. But I am very happy with the result. Picture of technique attached.
Julmer,
That's a good idea. Did you rabbet that with a dado blade on the TS or a router?
FR
TS or router for rabbet?
I used table saw. Router will work, but the Azek shavings/chips tend to fly around and cling (static?) - OK if you have a router table and good dust collection but not if your hand routing on workbench (unless it's christmas time and you enjoy the blizzard effect in your shop). I've used both dado and did fence setups to cut the rabbet with two passes on standard blade (only have a cheap dado set and std blade cuts were cleaner).
Those pre-fab column wraps look good. May try them next time.
Thanks for your input. I've read about the blizzard effect. I'm looking into the columns as well. As I recall, they were a bit pricey in that I have about 14 columns to wrap, but by the time you buy the Azek and spend the time cutting/gluing, etc. I'm sure the pre-fabs are very competitive or less expensive.
FR
I use a router or shaper with a lock mitre cutter. Makes for a nice post that has the joints on the corner where a 1/8"R router eases the edge joint.
What are you wrapping? You can get this stuff. http://www.screentight.com/prod-wrapnsnap.shtml
I have not used just have a sample sitting here.
John
Now, that's cool!
I've made posts in AZEK and from MDO plywood with a "lock joint mitre" joint made on the router table.
Used AZEK adhesive or PVC plumbers glue and lots of clamps.
Worked out great and no "end grain".
Thanks for this
FR,
Used your rabbit idea on the posts on my back deck - have been working with a Pro for a few weeks on this project. The posts look great ; have even been asked if Azek now makes a structural post by a neighbor who visited.
Just wanted to pass along this experience that Bill (the pro I am working with) came up with to "fasten" the rabbitted Azek boards to the 4X4 posts:
We made a large "U" channel by gluing up 3 sides on the ground (used Azek glue) - the only thing left to do was figure out how to attach, and leave room for movement; wife wanted NO fasteners to show.
We put a line of door/window foam sealant on the inside of the "U" we had built, lifted that on the post - then put a squirt down each of the open sides; then put a line down the middle of the 4th side (which we also had applied glue to, put it in place; clamped all up and down to secure the 4th side; worked on something else for an hour while the glue set up; then went on to the next post. Had my doubts, but it worked amazingly well. The finished product looks like a solid Azek post.
Thanks again.
There are a lot of great comments on this question. We miter all four boards lay them out next to each other. Then tape them together (still face up). Once aligned and secure, flip it and apply pvc cement to the joints and fold it up using tape again to secure the last joint. I like to use clear packing tape you would get at an office supply store.