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Discussion Forum

Pole Barn or Garage on Piers ?

JoeOxfordCT | Posted in General Discussion on February 6, 2008 07:58am

Hi All,

First post here, be gentle with me… : )

I’m a former carpenter looking to build a detached 2 story garage with a workshop on top here in CT.  I have gotten a couple estimates on a 24′ x 24′ foundation and they range from 9-11K backfilled with a slab poured.  Unfortunately this is about half of my budget.  I plan to do all the carpentry myself.  I have read a couple articles about pole barns and/or metal garages that are set on concrete piers or footings with a floating slab poured inside the exterior walls.  I wanted to know if anyone had any experience building with any of these types of techniques and if there were any online resources available that might be helpful.  I am mostly concerned about  sealing the sidewalls as close a possible to the ground without setting myself up for moisture problems. 

Thanks,

Joe

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  1. User avater
    MrSQL | Feb 06, 2008 08:09pm | #1

    It kind of depends on your local codes.  I built a pole barn (40 x 70) just by sinking treated 6x6's into the ground about 2' (on top of cement footing).

    Be sure your grade is good.  In NC you need to have any untreated wood at least 8" above grade.

    Since you have the carpentry skills, you should be able to build the forms needed for poured walls and build on top of that.  In that case, footing dug to below frost line as per code [including trench for foundation drain].  Pour footing. Formed side walls for pouring. Pour side walls (can hire a pump truck or make a hopper to assist with the pour. ...

    Regards,

    Roger

     

     

     

    1. User avater
      JoeOxfordCT | Feb 06, 2008 08:32pm | #2

      ".....I built a pole barn (40 x 70) just by sinking treated 6x6's into the ground about 2' (on top of cement footing)...."

      So when you did this how did you bring your framing down to the ground or how close did you go ? 

      1. john7g | Feb 06, 2008 08:39pm | #4

        you can use T&G PT 2x6 to run the bottom skirt along the ground but at the final grade of the poured slab.  If necessary PT4x4 can be set between poles to stiffen up the T&G 2x6. Run the T&G up to where you want to start your siding.  The PT T&G is usualy a spec order but wait time usually isn't very long

      2. DaveRicheson | Feb 06, 2008 08:43pm | #6

        The post are generally 4x6 or 6x6 treated and the bottom girt that attaches outside is also a treated 2x6 or treated 2x8. The slab is then poured inside the bottom girt.

        Common as dirt in farm country around here.

        1. User avater
          JoeOxfordCT | Feb 06, 2008 08:50pm | #9

          I would love to see some pictures, books, or websites that cover these details.....

      3. User avater
        MrSQL | Feb 06, 2008 08:44pm | #7

        It's (my pole barn) open in most places.  where I did side to the ground I used White Oak (it's naturally rot resistant).  The grade is good and the overhangs protect it somewhat. 

  2. RobWes | Feb 06, 2008 08:37pm | #3

    They won't let you build it on a floating slab? I have one in Northern Maine and have no issues to date.

    1. User avater
      JoeOxfordCT | Feb 06, 2008 08:41pm | #5

      You built on top of your floating slab ????

      Wasn't aware you could do this ?  I'm looking to do a second floor workshop too....

      How did you do yours ??

       

       

      1. theslateman | Feb 06, 2008 08:47pm | #8

        I'm also in Me. with a 1 1/2 story garage with workshop above.

        Haunch the perimeter of the slab to make it thicker on the outside 18" and you should be fine.

        1. User avater
          JoeOxfordCT | Feb 06, 2008 08:52pm | #10

          "...Haunch the perimeter of the slab to make it thicker on the outside 18" and you should be fine...."

          Forgive me but can you explain what you mean ?

          Are you saying to make the first 18" of slab from the perimeter in thicker ?

           

          1. theslateman | Feb 06, 2008 08:55pm | #12

            Yes thats correct- make it a foot thick from the outside form inwards 18" to give more support where the weight of the walls goes.

            Make sure to use rebar here as well.

            I have the weight of a slate roof on top as well.

          2. Henley | Feb 07, 2008 03:13am | #18

            Any expansion joint or anything next to haunch?

      2. RobWes | Feb 06, 2008 08:54pm | #11

        Dig out top and subsoil and replace with good clean gravel. I installed 3 floor drains. COMPACT WELL. Tie rebar and add verticals for sidewalls. Form and pour slab. I wanted 12"T X 8"W walls on my garage to 1) keep the framing away from the ground an 2) I cut and weld at times. I didn't want slag and sparks to hide under the plates. Form and pour the sidewalls except doorways. Strip off the forms and build.I don't know how to post pics but I can send them to you if you want. I didn't take any of the prep as I wasn't there. This method is very common up North.Look up arctic slab for more detail info.I failed to add that pole barns don't do well up there. The floor heaves and crushes the bottom of the walls. I was warned not to do this. It's just too harsh up there.Edited 2/6/2008 12:56 pm ET by RobWes

        Edited 2/6/2008 12:58 pm ET by RobWes

  3. DonNH | Feb 06, 2008 08:55pm | #13

    My dad's workshop is just like Dave's in post #7.  We built a 36x48 pole barn with 6x6 PT posts 12' apart, trusses , galvanized roof & 3 sides back in 1980. Bottom girt was 2x8 PT.  Couple years later we poured a floor in half of it & closed in the front with overhead doors.

    Last year we poured the floor in the other half, & a couple months ago replaced the roofing, which was getting rusty and had some leaks where it was nailed on.  New roof went on with screws (plus we could get 21' panels, rather than having to overlap 10 & 12' sections.)

    Everything's still solid after 27 years.

    Basic kit back then for the materials was around $6K if I remember correctly. 

    Don

    1. User avater
      JoeOxfordCT | Feb 06, 2008 09:33pm | #15

      "....My dad's workshop is just like Dave's in post #7.  We built a 36x48 pole barn with 6x6 PT posts 12' apart, trusses , galvanized roof & 3 sides back in 1980. Bottom girt was 2x8 PT.  Couple years later we poured a floor in half of it & closed in the front with overhead doors.

      Last year we poured the floor in the other half, & a couple months ago replaced the roofing, which was getting rusty and had some leaks where it was nailed on.  New roof went on with screws (plus we could get 21' panels, rather than having to overlap 10 & 12' sections.)

      Everything's still solid after 27 years.

      Basic kit back then for the materials was around $6K if I remember correctly....."

      Yours is the method that most suits my budget and access to heavy equipment (little to none).

      You don't have any pictures do you?  Would you feel comfortable using the same method for a 24'x24' footprint with a second floor workshop...... 6 pitch roof with asphalt shingle ?   I plan to have power out there and some sort of temporary heat....

      Thanks,

      J.

      1. bigal4102 | Feb 07, 2008 01:30am | #16

        http://www.public.iastate.edu/~mwps_dis/mwps_web/ma_plans.htmlA medium to large guy named Alan, not an ambiguous female....

        NOT that there is anything wrong with that.

      2. DonNH | Feb 07, 2008 06:36am | #20

        >You don't have any pictures do you?  Would you feel comfortable using the same method for a 24'x24' footprint with a second floor workshop...... 6 pitch roof with asphalt shingle ?   I plan to have power out there and some sort of temporary heat....

         

        Here's the only photo I have here- I could probably take more this weekend, as I'll probably be over there poking holes in maple trees.

        This photo was after he'd poured the new slab in the left side, but before we replaced the rusty roof.  The right side is closed in and heated with a wood stove.  Has power, etc.  Left side is currently partially framed for the overhead doors so that will be closed in before too long.  You can see the new roof panels & door sections laying flat just inside on the left part of the main building. The lean-to on the left (my dad's almost as much of a packrat as some of the frequent contributors here) extends all around the building.

        If you wanted a 2nd story, you'd probably have to beef up the walls some to increase the racking resistance.  You could get attic trusses or go with stick framing for the second story.

        For comparison, the other photos are my garage that I've been working on for close to 3 years now.  Finally got the overhead door installed a couple weeks ago, so it's starting to look like a real garage.  This is conventional stick-built construction, but using rough hemlock for framing.  Final siding will be vertical pine shiplap.

        I've got less than $20K into it, but much of that is due to the access to my dad's bulldozer & backhoe for digging, & log truck for transporting & placing the 16" x 24' steel support beams.  Plus much of the lumber was stuff he had milled on a trade basis (half the lumber for him, half for the mill).

        Don

         

  4. Riversong | Feb 06, 2008 09:19pm | #14

    You don't want to build a 2-storey building on piers.  Use a shallow, frost-protected foundation.  This system is accepted by the International Building Code and has been used successfully for more than 40 years in Scandinavia, northern Canada and Alaska. I've built a couple of houses using this system.

    Note that the specifications are different for a heated space vs a non-heated space.

    Design manual: http://www.toolbase.org/PDF/DesignGuides/revisedFPSFguide.pdf

     



    Edited 2/6/2008 1:19 pm ET by Riversong

  5. VTNorm | Feb 07, 2008 01:36am | #17

    I'm in southern VT. My existing pole barn has 6x6 posts on Footing Tubes http://www.foottube.com/index.htm down below 4ft. I had to install these this year as the original sono tubes were too shallow and heaved from frost.

    Beneath the structure I removed all the top soil and organic material, put in a perimeter drain and formed up for the slab (25ft x 42ft). Laid an 8-10" base of crushed gravel, compacted it in 3" lifts, layer of 6 mil poly, then 2" ext foam insulation. Rebar and wire mesh on top of that. I'll end up with a 5" slab - 10" around the ext perimeter. Didn't get it poured before the cold weather so I'm sitting tight for spring. Will have 1 garage bay for my work van with the rest work shop space. Will have heat and plumbing when it's done.

    JLC Field Guide Vol 1 was my best resource.

    -Norm

     

  6. MikeSmith | Feb 07, 2008 05:43am | #19

    pole barn.... i've done about (3)  24 x 36 with 2d floors

    also,  about 5  pole-barn additons to conventional full foundation  structures

    Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
  7. User avater
    shelternerd | Feb 07, 2008 09:03am | #21

    I do them like that all the time here in NC

    http://www.chandlerdesignbuild.com/files/PoleBarnOutbuildingsDetail.pdf has some pictures of the process

    ------------------

    "You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."

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