Replies

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Apr 24, 2002 02:06am | #1

   i would get very aggressive with the pest control chemicals.. i've been building with foam in our structures and became aware of this problem about 10 years ago...

   now the only foam we use is EPS Performguard..

   the ants need a couple of things .. access to the outdoors (for food ),   moisture, and the good old home-sweet-home.....make them walk across no-man's land to get in and out... and make it a killing zone when they do... keep all moisture sources away from the house...

   and you may have to do a lot of drilling and inserts of Bora-care....Tim-bore , etc..

   diazanon if you can still get it...

   here's a site with different products:

   http://www.nisuscorp.com/timbor.html

   Mike Smith

   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

   
   

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   Edited 4/23/2002 7:11:21 PM ET by Mike Smith

   
   

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   Edited 4/23/2002 7:12:34 PM ET by Mike Smith

1. 
   DavidThomas | Apr 24, 2002 11:02pm | #2

   An easy solution would be to build in Alaska where we don't have any termites or any of the bothersome ant species (nor snakes or posionous spiders or scorpins - just a lot of mosquitoes).

   But if you need to make a killing zone, the best Argentine ant solution I've used was 1/3 water, 1/3 honey, 1/3 gylcerine and 1% Arsenic Oxide.  I found the original bottle in my grandmother's shed and have made up my own ever since. 

   Dripple out a strip of it along their trail.  It isn't so immediately posionous that the ants can't get back to the nest.  Once there, they feed everyone else.  In about 2 hours they're all gone.  But you've got to be REALLY careful around pets and kids and wildlife because it looks and tastes like honey.

   David Thomas   Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska

1. 
   LEB03 | Apr 25, 2002 01:18pm | #3

   Dave thanks for the advice. Lived in seward back in late 70's,left when they decided to straighten that beautiful drive from anchorage to seward.Living in Massachusetts we have all sorts of pests both natural and political, sure do miss Ak. Where does one legally buy arsenic & glycerin? Thanks for the recipie.

1. 
   DavidThomas | Apr 26, 2002 08:46am | #5

   Sam: Any chemical supply house will send you not only scarey stuff but exceedingly scarey combinations of stuff (like to make sarin nerve gas). I'll repost with some names and numbers when I get to the office.

   Gene: There are places in AK where the bugs are bad but only if there is water, bushes, no wind, and no freezing nights. Then it can be really bad, but I only wear repellent a few times a year. Most times and places aren't bad.

   David Thomas   Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska

2. 
   DavidThomas | Apr 27, 2002 01:21am | #6

   Sigma (http://www.sigma-aldrich.com) had 25 grams of Arsenic trioxide (As2O3) for $8.05.  That's enough to make 5 pounds of 1% solution.  You want the 99% stuff.  The 99.99% gets much more expensive.

   David Thomas   Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska

1. 
   mmoogie | Apr 27, 2002 07:03am | #7

   Um, you mean I have to tell the guys on the crew that just lined the inside of the crawlspace walls with foil-faced polyiso and backfilled yesterday that they need to go rip it out and replace it with EPS?

   I've not spec'd a lot of foundations. We went with foil-faced so we would not have to cover the exposed foam for fire rating.

   Seriously, is this a big problem in Minnesota climate?

   Is it a code issue as well? I asked the guys, who have worked here for years, what we should use, and they said foil-faced. The only foil-faced foam available is polyiso, is it not?

   Steve

2. 
   xMikeSmith | Apr 28, 2002 06:00am | #8

   steven : foilfaced polyiso is what gave me all the problems..

    also, i didn't think the foil face complies with the flame spread requirements... i thought it had to be more substantial, like..1/2" gypsum

   but hey, whadda i no ?Mike Smith

   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

3. 
   mmoogie | Apr 28, 2002 06:23pm | #9

   Mike,

   I think it was the St. Paul codes officer that did the plan check--10 minutes, 365 bucks, thank you very much--who recommended using foil-faced to avoid having to cover with gypsum...but then again he spec'd an LVL header at (2x) 1 3/4 x 11 7/8 without looking anything up, and when I double checked the spec's at my yard, they said it needed three...

   Steve

4. 
   xMikeSmith | Apr 28, 2002 09:37pm | #10

   steve... i just remember reading the stamp on the foil.. and having a conversation with my building inspector...i don't remember thinking that 6 mils of foil was going to do much for flame spread....

   but.... ah , you know

   Mike Smith

   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

5. 
   xMikeSmith | Apr 28, 2002 09:51pm | #11

   steve, i just went to the R-max site to look at their spec sheet  (r-max is a foilfaced polyiso )

   here's their spec, which is just what i remember...

   <<<<

   WARNING DO NOT leave Thermasheath¯ exposed. Polyiso-cyanurate foam is an organic material which will burn when exposed to an ignition source of sufficient heat and intensity, and may contribute to flames spreading. Installations utilizing Rmax Thermasheath¯ must be fully protected on the interior side of walls and roofs by a minimum of 1/2 inch gypsum board or equivalent. Masonry or concrete that is a minimum of one-inch thick or plywood that is a minimum of 1/2 inch thick or wood that is a minimum of one-inch nominal thickness is recognized as a suitable thermal barrier. Consult the Local Building Official for specific governing codes and requirements.       >>>>>>>>

    Mike Smith

   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

6. 
   mmoogie | Apr 29, 2002 12:20am | #12

   Guess I better address this before they frame the floor platform over top of the crawlspace....

   Thanks Mike.

   Steve

7. 
   4Lorn1 | Apr 29, 2002 07:40am | #13

   Around here we get fire ants. An effective treatment is Amdro. Spread it around the nest and they take it home to feed to the queen. She dies and the nest follows suit in a week or two.

   Recently I saw carpenter ants in a nearby shed. I didn't have any insecticides available so I tried the Amdro. I spread it around the area. I saw the workers carrying the Amdro around and in a week or so I had no more ants. I liked the idea of being able to get rid of the ants without having to douse the area with indiscriminate poisons. 

   Would this work in your case? I don't know.

2. 
   gene_leger | Apr 25, 2002 06:30pm | #4

   David. About those mosquitoes the size of an F-16 fighter plane? GeneL

2. 
   lekpeter | Apr 30, 2002 11:26pm | #14

   Was the house a  Timberpeg product?

   They use the so-called "wrap and strap" method with the polyiso for insulation.

   http://www.timberpeg.com/design-typical.html

   I thought this was a good system, but with the bug problem I wonder.

   Thanks for pointing this out.

1. 
   LEB03 | May 01, 2002 03:10pm | #15

   This p&b frame is on a 220 yr old house, After reading and asking about all of the available products in 1987 I settled on polyiso for it's much higher r value. Within six months I learened I had made a very poor choice. I now have a well built sandwich w/ finish on one side and roofing and siding on the other. I have encountered this problem on poorly installed dryvit on the job , and the exterminator had limited access there as well. The more people I talk to the more I find that this seems to be a wide spread problem and a fairly well kept secret.Apparently the consistency of the foam is ideal for ant colonies and moisture does not need to be present in the amount necessary for making the wood soft enough, remember they don't eat the wood they just use it for condo's. I have heard nothing about a problem w/ expanded polystyrene.