Replies

1. 
   RW | Mar 28, 2006 12:52am | #1

   They work just fine; theres a plastic wing that flips out of the way so the driver bit and screw head will go thru. But I dont think you'll counterbore anything through there. Never tried. Always use trim screws there.

   "Sometimes when I consider what tremendous consequences come from little things, I am tempted to think -- there are no little things" - Bruce Barton

2. 
   Stilletto | Mar 28, 2006 12:59am | #2

   They are worth the money.  I think I paid $50 for the pair.  The hole in the side of mine is 3/8".  The plastic flap in mine has a small hole for predrilling pilot holes.  Open the flap and put a small countersink to it then screw it and remove the clamp.

   You're entitled to sh!t.---Tony Soprano

3. 
   USAnigel | Mar 28, 2006 01:35am | #3

   Tried them and returned. Not impressed for the money. A good one handed clamp helps better.

4. 
   tollgeek03 | Mar 28, 2006 01:45am | #4

   They're not bad, but you'll still need to augment with other clamps for a typical installation.

   As mentioned..... yes, you can pilot,  countersink and set with the clamp in place.

   I believe they now also make a clamp for Euro-style cabinets as well

5. 
   calvin | Mar 28, 2006 02:25am | #5

   As any tool you'll get many different impressions.

   I have had a pair for a number of years and think they are much better at joining and lining up faceframed cabinets for fastening.  The flip thing I never use.  I eyeball center a Fuller counterbore with tapered bit.  I use full  headed screws, by habit I suppose.  They tighten and align (on the face) as described in the literature.  I wouldn't be without them.  I would like three, but they are sold in pairs.  I make due with the pair.  I draw them up together (not snug) then use the face alignment clamp to even the faceframes.  Then lay on the joining clamp tight.  Bore the hole, run the screw in, then remove the clamp.

   As would be the case, since buying the euro pair, I haven't had a frameless install since.  On the one vanity system I tried them on, not quite as impressed as with their frame brethren.

   If you are serious about cab. install and do a few kitchens a year, check out the Third Hand cabinet jacks from Fastcap. 

   A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.

   Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

   Quittin' Time

    

6. 
   basswood | Mar 28, 2006 02:45am | #6

   We use them on every cabinet job, but find it easier to not mess with drilling, countersinking, and driving screws through the small hole in the clamp (we put trimheads in above or below the clamps.

   Quick clamps are too wimpy to do a good job holding faceframes together.

   We often leave the Pony Cabinet Claws on ganged up cabinets while we lift them into place.

7. 
   MikeFitz | Mar 28, 2006 05:02am | #7

   I got a pair for installing my kitchen (my 1st).  I found them very helpful, but I used trim heads so there was no need for counter sinking.  Maybe a pro could do just as well with a simpler clamp, but I didn't find any real faults with them.  They were worth the $50 even if I only use them once.

1. 
   Kimball | Mar 28, 2006 06:13am | #8

   I've had a pair for 5-6 years now and I love them. I also don't bother using the hole in the clamp, just drill and drive a trim head just above or below the clamp. I've been using GRK trim screws lately and have been real happy with them. I'm wondering what kind of screws others use? A little pricey, but never had one strip or break.

    

   Kimball

1. 
   Heck | Mar 28, 2006 06:39am | #9

   You all that are using trim head screws -

   Do you not have to countersink the heads at all even in hardwood?

   What bit/bits do you use to predrill - tapered or not?

   Do the trim bits tend to break more often?

   The cabs I've seen around here with trim screws in them , the screws are countersunk and puttied over. Is this done by countersinking (with what?), or by driving the screw itself?

   Inquiring minds want to know.

    "Citius, Altius, Fortius"

1. 
   Kimball | Mar 28, 2006 02:39pm | #11

   Heck, I use a staight bit the size of the trim screw shaft to pre-drill and it sets itself into the edge of the face frame. Works with oak and maple cabinets. As I said, I haven't had any trouble with the GRK trim screws breaking. These are brass screws and I usuallt don't putty teh holes. Hide them behind hinges when I can. Hope that helps.

    

   Kimball

1. 
   DDay | Apr 06, 2006 04:33am | #18

   Has anyone ever tried pocket hole screws for joining the face frames?  I'm not taking about drilling a pocket hole but rather just normal holes for the face frames then using the pocket hole screws.  I think the pocket hole screw's pan head or washer head would clamp nicely and pull the frames tight without the possibility of over driving the screws and splitting the face frames.

    

2. 
   basswood | Apr 06, 2006 05:35am | #19

   If face frames are clamped together well, trimhead screws work great. I try to avoid using large-head screws for such a visible location.I use 1-1/4 pocket-hole screws to hold laminate c-tops down to the 1x4 build-up. Nothing works better.

3. 
   basswood | Apr 07, 2006 04:40am | #20

   Here is another use of pocket hole screws in cabinet installing...to keep ganged up cabinets straight--I shim and use pocket hole screws between the cabinets at the back (after clamping a straight edge across the fronts).

   
4. 
   DDay | Apr 07, 2006 06:00am | #21

   That's a nice idea to deal with wavy walls.  I really like the clamping ability of the pocket hole screws, they really hold very well.

5. 
   JeffBuck | Apr 07, 2006 06:46am | #22

   I do the shim and back screw pretty much on every run of cabs ...

   but I'd not waste the more expensive pocket hole screws ...

   I just run a coarse thread drywall screw thru.

    

   holds just fine for that application ... cheaper and easier to find.

   even if I run outta shorter screws ... run a 2" ... and if it's gonna be left open and I'm worried about someone snagging their hand just snap the point off with a hammer.

   Jeff    Buck Construction

    Artistry In Carpentry

        Pittsburgh Pa

6. 
   Kimball | Apr 07, 2006 06:13pm | #23

   Jeff, I was going to say the same thing. I always screw the backs together with drywall screws. This helps to get a straight line in the front and holds it all together.

    

   Kimball

7. 
   basswood | Apr 08, 2006 04:36am | #24

   I used to use drywall screws too. The pocket hole screws cost about 3 cents each IIRC. They hold onto a square drive bit nicely, go into wood easier & faster & hold better. I spend an extra 50 cents or a buck per kitchen, but I like using them much better. I use the Kreg jig on almost every job, so I always keep them on hand.

8. 
   arcticcat | Apr 08, 2006 07:45am | #25

   Basswood, what brand of t-10 bits are ya using for the trimheads?  I love them little GRK's, but the bits are kind of the weak link in the system.  The best ones I've found so far are the GRK brand.  I try to keep plenty on hand.  Just wondering if there are any better ones.

   Mike

9. 
   basswood | Apr 08, 2006 03:53pm | #26

   I use GRK bits too. Color coded for dummies...helps me tell the T-10's & 15's apart without looking too close.My bits last much longer now that I make tiny trimhead countersinks (especially if working with hickory or maple cabs). I use the first two steps of a Unibit--makes a perfect countersink very quickly. Now, I seldom break a T-10.

2. 
   basswood | Mar 28, 2006 02:45pm | #12

   We use 3 2-1/2" GRK trimhead screws on each cabinet rail (top, middle, & bottom). I do make a small countersink for the trim head...it makes the T-10 bits last much longer.The Irwin step-drill bit makes perfect trimhead countersinks...far fewer broken screws and bits, especially in hickory or maple, etc.

1. 
   Shoeman | Mar 28, 2006 03:30pm | #13

   Hey Basswood,

   Where do you buy your GRX trimhead screws - somewhere local or have them shipped?

   Also would like more info on the Irwin Step Bit you use. 

   Thanks,

   Shoe

2. 
   basswood | Mar 29, 2006 03:04am | #16

   I have two local suppliers for GRK in Winona, MN (TriMac Do It Best & Kendal Lumber True Value). Are you near a Scherer Bros.?http://www.grkfasteners.com/featured_retailers.htmI'll take some pics of our method and post them next week. Here is the bit we use for trimhead countersinks:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002BC0Q4/sr=1-7/qid=1143593943/ref=sr_1_7/002-6415708-6874437?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=hi

3. 
   Shoeman | Mar 29, 2006 06:22am | #17

   Thanks

   The unibit is what first came to mind when you mentioned step bit - just wanted to confirm.

   Thanks for the GRK link.  I am near a Scherer bros - might have to stop in

    

   Look forward to seeing your pics,

   Shoe

   Edited 3/29/2006 8:59 am by Shoeman

4. 
   basswood | Apr 11, 2006 05:35am | #27

   Here is what we use for the trimhead countersink. Two steps up this Unibit works great for the 1-1/2" to 3-1/8" GRK's. When we use the 5" trimheads we go to the "third-step."

   
8. 
   migraine | Mar 28, 2006 07:47am | #10

   I use these with an additonal  round pad welded on to the swivel base, just like on the Krieg tool clamps

    

   http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/jhtml/detail.jhtml?prodId=IrwinProd430012

9. 
   JDRHI | Mar 28, 2006 04:03pm | #14

   Had 'em for years...and love 'em!

   Buy two pairs, even if you're only able to use three at a time....worth the extra $50.

   J. D. Reynolds

   Home Improvements

1. 
   plumbsquare | Mar 28, 2006 08:27pm | #15

   Thanks everybody. That's the sort of consensus I like to see. I'll order one pair now and some more next time I'm feeling flush. I tell my wife that tools don't count. "They're deductions, Honey, deductions."Tim