Just met with a customer about doing a few pre-sale fixes, and one of the items the inspector noted was the light fixtures in the garage, attic & closet ceilings. They are the simple porcelain keyless type, some controlled by a pull string and some by wall switches. Inspector said they have to be enclosed, which means replacing them with basic globe fixtures. What is ther rationale here? and is he right?
Do it right, or do it twice.
Discover a concrete-free foundation option that doesn't require any digging.
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial NowGet instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
Replies
The reason for having globes on closet fixtures is to prevent the possibility of flammables from contacting a bare, hot bulb.
And in the attic and garage? Can you reference a NEC section?Do it right, or do it twice.
I'm looking at my 1999 NEC and the closet light fixture requirements are in section 410-8b. The section # may be slightly different in the 2002 edition but my copy of that is at work on my desk. I don't see anything specific about requiring enclosed light fixtures attic or garages, but that could be a local requirement.
The NEC does not tell you how to do anything. It establishes minimum requirements for installations. It is also a very well written document as it leaves plenty of room for interpretation by the local authority. The best way to handle this is to ask the inspector for the code reference he feels requires the use of globe fixtures in locations other than closets. If he can't produce the reference, you don't do it. There are a lot of inspectors (especially the 'pre-purchase' inspection services) that let their personal preferences, rather than the intent of the code, influence their reports.
Thanks all for the info. This is a pre-sale inspection (same as pre-purchase 'cept the seller is paying for it) and I recognize the document as being from the same inspector I have followed before. What he does is inspect for obvious defects, as well as point out things that are not up to current code. He doesn't say they have to be fixed, and doesn't mention the grandfathering, just the facts ma'am. So the buyer sees the list, sees that something is not currently legit, and demands that it be changed. In this case, changing 4-5 porcelains to globe fixtures is easier than arguing.
Do it right, or do it twice.
I'll stick me petard out here.
The porcelein keyless fixtures are the best deal in lighting-- $1 each. Much more effective than stupid can lights.
Now the closet may be a problem under current code since the bulb in near to shelves which may have flammable clothing on it. But then there may be a grandfather clause in which you would have to determine when the closet was built and what edition of the code [NEC] was in effect at that time. Often states will delay several years before adapting a newer code.
As for the garage and attic, I don't know. In the attic, you need some sort of light if you have serviceable equipment such as a heating or A/C unit up there [as well as a receptacle].
~Peter
DISCLAIMER: This material is alledged to be Radon free. Do not exceed recommended dose.Limited to stock on hand. No rainchecks. RTFM. Images may appear smaller than they seem.
For rental units our town has requirements for no bare bulbs in closets.
I got around this by replacing all the bulbs with GE daylight compact flourescent that is enclosed in a polycarbonate globe housing.
By us, closets require an enclosed recessed fixture no less than 18 inches away from the rear wall for an incandescent fixture. The requirement relaxes to allow the mounting of the recessed fixture 12 inches from the back wall if a flourescent FIXTURE is used (not bulbs that can be changed back).
Fixtures in garage, service areas, and basements must enclose the bulb in case the bulb bursts, the bulb will be contained. It is also to prevent the bulb from being struck.
This is what we're told.
The closet rule is for fire prevention and they tend to be pretty strict about that with closets. I've seen guys have to take out fixtures for 2 inches difference. The covered bulb part is a little wacky, but the reasoning is that an injury can occur if a bulb explodes.
I'll join the crowd with their necks hanging out. When we sold a house about 10 years ago, we lived in a township with active codes enforcement and needed to get a certificate of occupancy to transfer title. There were several major types of code problems which were structural in nature that got grandfathered (codes had changed since the house was built), but one thing we had to do was replace all bare bulb incandescent fixtures, not just in closets. The rationale I got from the township inspector was that there was a prospective fire hazard if the bulb burst. I have no idea if he was correct (personally, I think the township engineer's brother was an electrical contractor).
re - I have no idea if he was correct (personally, I think the township engineer's brother was an electrical contractor).
----------
Same reasoning could be applied to Arkansas, where the auto tire/shock/suspension/alignment shop PAC probably keeps all Interstate routes through the state in horrible condition.
Perhaps the WORST in the country.
I-40 will nearly kill you!
Sounds suspect to me but then I am not an electrician.
Here is a link to the code for the closet.
http://www.codecheck.com/pg27_28electrical.html#rough
Note that the limitation is on the type of FIXTURE, not the bulb. The reason being if it is an edison base screw in socket you can replace the CFL with an incandensent.
And BTW, any code requirments that what was in affect in that local when the the closet was wired, not closet was built.
But this is home inspection and not strictly code. But for the closet I would expect that the HI would accept using CFL's. But depends on how it written up.
I would think regular CFL would be considered the same as a bare bulb, thus my use of CFL that is enclosed in a polycarbonate housing.
The inspector was agreeable to it, especially after he found out how much the little suckers cost - about $16 each for nine bases.
In practice I don't think that there would be any difference in the fire safety of a "plain CFL" vs one in a globe for tube. I think that most heat sources is in the base and would have the same exposure.
But as I said code would not accept either one and you could just uncrews than and screw in an incandensent bulb.
re - I think that most heat sources is in the base and would have the same exposure.
But as I said code would not accept either one and you could just uncrews than and screw in an incandensent bulb.
------
Your point is well taken, Bill.
I guess this points up a common problem.
As you can see, depending on what part of the country you're from, codes are handled differently. One of the things I do to make sure my jobs are getting done right is I meet with whomever is the inspecting authority so we can go over just such details.
Around here, there are private companies that do the Electrical Underwritters Approval inspections. If there is any questions as to how something needs to be done, a quick visit to any of these offices clears everything up.
I've noticed that many local towns have stricter regs that what the national codes call for. Since every town might be different and I can't keep track one town to the next, paying a visit to these guys keeps me on track as well.
In the house I grew up in, we had a fire in a closet for just such a reason. There was a bare bulb in the front of the closet above the door. The bulb burned out. The old bulb was a 25 W, but there weren't any on hand, so my dad put in a 60 or 75W. He accidentally left the light on, and a pair of jeans fell off the top shelf and onto the light.
It was the day after Christmas, and my brothers and I were playing upstairs on our new computer - the apple IIc with 128 KB RAM, no hard drive, 9" green screen monitor. Anyway, we smelled something funny, I came downstairs to find that the closet door was up in flames, and clothes were burning on the floor. We put out the fire with a trash can full of water. Good thing we smelled it early, or the whole house would have been up in flames!! Yikes!
Good save.
It serves to point out the potential danger of incandescent lights in a closet. I hate to think what might have happened if it had been a few hour later and the family was tucked into bed.
The NEC requirements are not difficult to achieve in new construction and just a bit more trouble in old work. Retrofitting existing closets is, IMHO, a good idea. Better safe than sorry.
re - Retrofitting existing closets is, IMHO, a good idea. Better safe than sorry.
------
Point well taken.
For the time being, though, ours will stay as-is with compact flourescents.
They are mounted high up and out of the way on the wall facing into the closet.
However, we have another house which has the porcelain fixture mounted underneath the upper shelf, facing downwards, which does pose a hazard. For those I used polycarbonate encapsulated units.
As an example of how things are interpreted in some townships, the inspector told me one way to get around the dilemma would be to add a.....clip-on lampshade to the incadescent bulb to prevent direct contact with the bulb.
I chose the more costly route of the encapsulated compacts.
Still not the same as a complete retrofit, which ideally would involve running new grounded cable for the lighting fixtures.
If you want to conduct a little experiment you can demonstrate the hazard. Wire a socket and cord cap onto a piece of romex. Screw in a light bulb. A 60w will do. Wrap the bulb loosely in rags. An old towel will do nicely. Within a short while the cloth will start to smolder. Given enough air it will catch fire.
This is a fun little demonstration but do it in a location free from worries of fire. A concrete drive is ideal but still keep the hose and a bucket of sand handy. Don't use the hose until the cord is unplugged. Otherwise you will be demonstrating quite another hazard and it is important to stay focused here.
The hazard of bare bulbs in closet is that blankets, comforters and other cloth goods stacked on a shelf can fall forward and contact the bulb. If the light was left on, not an uncommon occurrence, the cloth can smolder behind the closed door. Given a bit of time a fire can start and work its way through the ceiling of the closet and be well established in the attic before anyone knows and the fire department can be called. People have died.
Unenclosed incandescent bulbs are a definite hazard. Even enclosed ones are a hazard if close enough to flammable materials. NEC requirements for closets are a solid investment in safety. Even if grandfathered in changing an existing situation is pretty much common sense if you value your family or house.
The notice that a keyless is not code in a residential garage is news to me. I usually install fluorescent but keyless fixtures are common. The only thing I can find, with a limited search so anyone is welcome to correct me, is Article 410.6, 2003 NEC, which refers to fixtures over combustible materials. which only requires the "lamp holders to be 8' above the floor or located or guarded so the lamp cannot be readily removed or damaged."
Unless someone can point out another section I don't think that this precludes using keyless fixtures in residential garages. That said I guess a broken bulb could allow a hot filament to ignite any gas fumes. Gas hot water heaters in a garage are raised to prevent gasoline fumes, heavier than air, from contacting the natural gas flame in the heater. So it might be a potential problem. But this could easily be true of any spark, like from dropping a tool on a concrete floor, in the area.
Elcid, not sure if there is difference between Houston code and San Antonio codes but, in my parents home they have porcelain fixtures in their attic.
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals build the Titanic.